(Topic ID: 111385)

Nervous about my 1st attempt of a cabinet repaint - Completed

By 4Max

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Noobee
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There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 years ago

I think I may have a crack at repainting the cabinet of my newly acquired Kings and Queens that looks like it was possibly in a fire at one point, certainly the cabinet repairs are terrible. (Fortunately playfield, glass, mechanics are fairly good).

I've been thinking this was beyond me, but I know if I mess it up that a. it cannot be worse and b. I can ask Boilerman to do a professional job!

So, I have read every post / Clay's guide / etc, on this I can find and would like the groups views on the following high level approach:

1. Can the metal side bars be left on - I am worried about damaging them when trying to remove the pins - any advice?

2. Use something like 3M Safest Stripper or a sander to remove existing paint?

3. The only stencils I can find are here http://thisoldgame.tripod.com/Partspages/PinballPg.htm - has anyone used this company? feedback?

4. Use Kyrlon Ivory for base, Banner Red and True Blue for colors?

5. Surface to be sprayed should be laying flat from what i have read - couple of light coats and remove stencils while wet

6. I do not own a spray gun and never used one, so I plan to use spray paint from cans

7. I plan to do the webbing (after base, before red/blue) using Clay's approach of metal brush and black lacquer (given point 6 above)..but I don't need a gallon like Clay, thought just buy the Rustoleum spray can, spray some into the cap, and use that?

As always, would love to get any feedback, advice, etc

Thanks

Danny

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#2 9 years ago

First off, if ya screw up it's easy enough to sand it smooth and start over. So don't be nervous, GO FOR IT!

Now, take off side rails, it sucks to strip, sand or paint with them on. Pry up carefully (I use a stiff putty knife) until you can grasp the nail heads with some side cutters or other tool. Now go to your best local hardware store and buy new nails (Or call Steve-PBR. He has 'em)

Stripping paint is easier with less chance of poisoning yourself with old lead paint.

Never heard of those stencils. I make my own. This one could be easy with careful masking. Or damn hard, depending on your graphic abilities.

Krylon will work fine, just prime bare wood or it'll suck it up like a sponge. And pick your base white carefully. Ivory can be *too* yellow sometimes.

Doing the texture with paint sprayed in a cap from a can may not work. It may be too thin. I use montana gold's webbing spray though it takes a whole lotta effort to make it look legit. You have to spray fast and far in a karate type of move. I don't let anyone witness be doing it. But look up Montana Gold's webbing spray.

Good luck! (oh, and your mileage may vary)
Art.

#3 9 years ago

I second taking off the rails. I've had an easy and a hard time doing the job, it just seems to vary on the game.

Ivory worked well for me on the game I did that had that base color. Don't use gloss if you can avoid it, satin looks better. You might have a hard time finding true blue and banner red in satin-I did. I used gloss then sprayed the entire cab and head with satin poly and it evened it all out and gives the cab a nice finish. Not factory, but you really can't tell.

Webbing with brush flick is how I did my first one, and all I can tell you is, it ain't easy. Practice, practice practice before you try it. I'm sure you know this but I'll repeat it anyway, the webbing goes on before the graphics. I've seen people do it after. Don't.

I've used stencils from This Old Game. They were fine. They'll stick on, so they're one use only. They will give you a much sharper edge than the factory did, but that's ok. Just don't get real heavy with the paint or you'll end up with raised edges, which is not so good.

You can do it. Just dive in. As Art says, at worst if you screw it up, just sand it down and go at it again.

#4 9 years ago

You really can't make a cab like that much worse - except by covering it with woodgrain vinyl. You're on the right track, proceed.

#5 9 years ago

It's good to work on your restoration skills. Especially if you think you may want to do another cab repaint down the road.

With that said I was extremely disappointed with the ones I'd tried to do. Even though it was an improvement over what I had, when you do it yourself every flaw will grate on you. These days if Boilerman were within driving distance and I wanted a cab repainted that is the route I would choose. He does a great job and it will add value, especially to a game like Kings & Queens. It's admirable to do it yourself but there is definitely a learning curve. Boilerman has already figured out all the subtleties. He knows how to apply proper webbing which is like a lost art it seems. K&Q is certainly deserving of the pro treatment. The nice thing is, as you've mentioned if you decide to try it yourself and your not happy with your attempt you can go to plan B.

#6 9 years ago

Great advice everyone, thanks.

Any thoughts on:

EMsInKC mentions Satin, but like him, I cannot see that for the Krylon range - did anyone find a better alternative (Satin finish similar to banner red and true blue).

Best way to strip old paint?

Recommended product for filling the wood damage?

Prime or not to prime - I see some do not (and use a sealer instead), but was interested in the disadvantage to priming given we are painting over it?

thanks!

#7 9 years ago

Rustoleum Heirloom white is the best match for the base...

I usr Krylon black (sometimes silver) webbing spray BUT I shoot the webbing into a HF touchup sprayer then cut it about 50% with lac thinner, testing to see if I get the right consistency...50 lbs on the compressor.

https://picasaweb.google.com/116707490823432104374/SpinACardSold#5850527576807050994

touchup.JPGtouchup.JPG

good luck. And you can check out some of my attempts here

https://picasaweb.google.com/116707490823432104374/BankABall3PaintJob

as always, practice practice practice

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from 4Max:

Great advice everyone, thanks.
Any thoughts on:
EMsInKC mentions Satin, but like him, I cannot see that for the Krylon range - did anyone find a better alternative (Satin finish similar to banner red and true blue).
Best way to strip old paint?
Recommended product for filling the wood damage?
Prime or not to prime - I see some do not (and use a sealer instead), but was interested in the disadvantage to priming given we are painting over it?
thanks!

What about shooting a satin Krylon clear to obtain the finish you desire?
http://www.krylon.com/products/satin-finish/

#9 9 years ago

My advice is that you can repair anything you've screwed up (usually). Every time I paint a cab, I screw it up and have to redo it, sometimes multiple times. I'm on attempt #3 on my Bad Cats right now to get the orange right. Haven't even gotten to the cat touch-ups yet.

#10 9 years ago

And auto bondo is the choice for filling in scratches and dings.

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from 4Max:

Great advice everyone, thanks.
Any thoughts on:
EMsInKC mentions Satin, but like him, I cannot see that for the Krylon range - did anyone find a better alternative (Satin finish similar to banner red and true blue).
Best way to strip old paint?
Recommended product for filling the wood damage?
Prime or not to prime - I see some do not (and use a sealer instead), but was interested in the disadvantage to priming given we are painting over it?
thanks!

Very good series on cabinet restoration................ Sparky is Good & Funny

#12 9 years ago

I fully agree with all the advice you've been given thus far. Definitely remove the side rails. Boilerman posted a video a while ago where he removed a pair in like three minutes or something.
You sure didn't pick an easy one to be your first! Good luck, and be sure to let us see what it looks like when you're done.

#13 9 years ago

Thanks again for all the advice, I will start stripping the cabinet this week.

As for stripping old paint...just use a sander? Or a product? Any thoughts there?

Cheers.

#14 9 years ago

I've stripped cabinets using both methods. First was with Motsenbockers water based remover. Works pretty well but does take several applications to get all the layers. No harsh odors either.

Then, on advice by a Pinsider, I bought a Festool RO125 Rotary Sander. With that tool I can strip an entire cabinet/backbox in about an hour. The Festool unit is spendy but works very well. I've easily stripped 10 to 15 cabinets with it. You can certainly use other sanders but it may take quite a bit longer. With any sander, care must be taken so as not to do any damage to the wood.

Bottom line, either way works. I'd suggest trying both and see which works best for you.

-1
#15 9 years ago

photo-828.JPGphoto-828.JPGas far as removing the old paint, there's fans of sanding or stripping. i'm firmly in the paint stripping camp. sanding creates a much larger mess and you also have to deal with airborne paint particles that may contain lead. i use standard paint stripper ( not the citri strip or "green" versions). it works fast and does a great job. then use a putty knife to remove the paint off in sheets. it'll be starting to bubble up before you're done applying the stripper. apply more for stubborn areas.
after that, sand the cab down to as smooth as you can with a power sander. I used an orbital palm sander and it worked great. you will prolly have to sand some painted areas after the stripper, particularly in cracks or recesses. after that, fill any gouges/scratches with bondo and sand smooth. then prime which will show any areas that need more filler. at this stage, areas that still need filler should be very shallow and can be easier filled with thin body filler which is commonly called glazing putty available at auto parts stores just like bondo. sand the putty areas down and spot reprime them and you're ready for paint.
below are various pics of my Diamond Jack cab repaint. they show the cab stripped down to the wood. visible in a couple of pics are the front of the machine and head with thick black epoxy. these pics were taken while the epoxy was curing and once cured it was sanded smooth. these areas had a significant amount of wood missing (significant enough that bondo wouldn't be structurally strong enough, IMO) so I used epoxy. one pic is after the repaint but before reassembly.photo (1).JPGphoto (1).JPGphoto (2).JPGphoto (2).JPGphoto (3).JPGphoto (3).JPGphoto (4).JPGphoto (4).JPGphoto.JPGphoto.JPGphoto-828.JPGphoto-828.JPG

#16 9 years ago

beadwindow why did you do 98% on that cab? it came out great except the inside lip is still yellow.
you see it all the time. not to start a flame war like the nos white post thread>>just asking. I have seen others do the same thing

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#17 9 years ago

No worries on the flame war, its just pinball. Someone else pointed that out to me not long after I finished and I've since corrected it. I made a couple other mistakes. One is that I have the color of the diamonds reversed on the lower front of the head. I restored this game for my girl so I asked her if she wanted it corrected and she thought that was crazy. Her only demand was that it played like it did before the restore. The other was I forgot to paint the new metal piece just to the right of the coin door. I'll get to it some day but have other projects going on as usual...

#18 9 years ago

live and learn.... I made my share of mistakes along the way

#19 9 years ago

forgot to mention to the OP that when the cab and head are empty it's a great time to inspect it for cracks where the sides and bottom have pulled apart. this is pretty common and is easily fixed with wood glue and some pipe clamps. don't overlook this as you'll never have the game completely apart again.

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

live and learn.... I made my share of mistakes along the way

Did the same thing on my King Kool repaint. A bother once the rest of it is done but easily fixed. Just takes time.

#21 9 years ago

take your time and it should come out fine

just finished my EGGHEAD it came out great.

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#22 9 years ago

You really should go into business!

#23 9 years ago

The Egghead cabinet sure looks nice boilerman......

#24 9 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

You really should go into business!

jr if I did I would be worried it would take the fun out of it!

Quoted from hoov:

The Egghead cabinet sure looks nice boilerman......

dave wait until you see it when it is done...

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from boilerman:

jr if I did I would be worried it would take the fun out of it!

Yeah, you're right. But I wish I lived closer to you!

#26 9 years ago

Boilerman, I'll see your EggHead and raise you a SquareHead

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#27 9 years ago

I like egg head a little more, square head has gobble holes and egg head doesn't
yours came out nice! your pf wood area is a little dark but looks good otherwise

#28 9 years ago

Thanks. This was a paint job for a pin buddy. I also redid the apron from a rescue decal. If you do a very light webbing you can overlay the decal on it.

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#29 9 years ago

Nice work on that game. Yeah too bad about the "sunburned" playfield (a topic that should be explored ). That's the cabinet I would need "boilerman" to do for me, a "Square Head" (among others).

#30 9 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Thanks. This was a paint job for a pin buddy. I also redid the apron from a rescue decal. If you do a very light webbing you can overlay the decal on it.

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That card tray came out awesome! Thank heavens for Lee and Gordon at Pinball Rescue.

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Boilerman, I'll see your EggHead and raise you a SquareHead
*** What a Set of Bumpers ********

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#32 9 years ago

Nice job on the Square Head cabinet Ken!

#33 9 years ago

So, it's started - I'll keep it brief as I provide updates.

I stripped everything from the cab and back box, apart from one of the original stapled notices, which I masked as I was worried I would tear it.

photo copy 5.JPGphoto copy 5.JPG

I started with KleanStrip Premium paint stripper - nasty stuff…I scratched my nose at one point and the burning was fast! These couple of pictures show the mess left after a couple of coats of stripper (It seemed sad to see all that original paint on the floor)

photo 2 copy.JPGphoto 2 copy.JPGphoto 1 copy.JPGphoto 1 copy.JPG

The black seems to be from fire damage - and someone had tried to repaint with something more obstinate than the original paint - however, it all eventually came off - as per next photos after orbital sander an 60 grit paper, then 100 and 150.

photo 4 copy.JPGphoto 4 copy.JPGphoto 3 copy.JPGphoto 3 copy.JPG

The good news is that there are not major defects that need filling - a couple of tiny holes that were easy. Against the (always excellent) advice of Boilerman, I have used a very light coat of a flat white primer, and used 600 wet paper to give a smooth finish.

photo copy 6.JPGphoto copy 6.JPG

Thats enough for this weekend - next steps are the base color (Heirloom White from Rust-Oleum) and the fun of practicing on my webbing skills!

Cheers

Danny

#34 9 years ago

Nice job so far. If you're using spray cans, try to avoid Rust Oleum paints. Krylon, Valspar, and even many store brands seem to be better and cheaper. Rust Oleum seems to me anyway, to take a long time to dry (sometimes it never fully dries and comes off the surface you've painted). Your results may be better, but this has been my experience with spray cans.

#35 9 years ago

And no webbing directly from the Krylon can! Too gloppy. Needs to be cut.

(Ive had good luck with Rust Oleum)

#36 9 years ago

From my experience with spray can enamel, a light first coat, let it dry for a couple days then lightly sand and let that dry for a couple of days. Continue that way till your done, the drying time even after sanding is very important.

1 month later
#37 9 years ago

Quick update while I am waiting for the stencils to arrive (hopefully this week).

Very boring, but here is the back box after Heirloom White, took 3 coats with light 600 sanding between. (I did the cabinet too, but won't take up space here with photos)
IMG_1702.JPGIMG_1702.JPG
And then, after some practice and my heat beat jumping to 120 as I did not want to mess up and start again, here is the webbing affect.
IMG_1759.JPGIMG_1759.JPG
I am happy with this - in the end I used the Montana Webbing Spray.

Any advice with stencils?

The set is described thus:
Kings & Queens 1965 Gottlieb, made of a commercial grade low tack removable durable vinyl. Plotter cut and come Pre-masked ready to apply.
2 Color 12 Piece Stencil set includes:
Application Squeegee
Both Cabinet Sides
Backbox Sides
Backbox Front
Front coin

I am hoping its pretty self explanatory?!

#38 9 years ago
Quoted from 4Max:

Quick update while I am waiting for the stencils to arrive (hopefully this week).
Very boring, but here is the back box after Heirloom White, took 3 coats with light 600 sanding between. (I did the cabinet too, but won't take up space here with photos)

And then, after some practice and my heat beat jumping to 120 as I did not want to mess up and start again, here is the webbing affect.

I am happy with this - in the end I used the Montana Webbing Spray.
Any advice with stencils?
The set is described thus:
Kings & Queens 1965 Gottlieb, made of a commercial grade low tack removable durable vinyl. Plotter cut and come Pre-masked ready to apply.
2 Color 12 Piece Stencil set includes:
Application Squeegee
Both Cabinet Sides
Backbox Sides
Backbox Front
Front coin
I am hoping its pretty self explanatory?!

IMG_1702.JPG 6 KB

IMG_1759.JPG 9 KB

I have never used a pre-made stencil kit, so I don't have any experience or advice to lend.
Who makes the stencil kit? I may be wrong and it's a minor point anyway, but I don't think the top of the backbox is supposed to be webbed.

#39 9 years ago

Ah, yes, you maybe right about top of box - I guess no-one will see it (but I'll know…damn!)

Stencils are coming from these guys

http://www.thisoldgame.com/products/kings-and-queens-pinball-stencil-set

#40 9 years ago

Don't be afraid of a repaint.here's a game I saved that most people wouldn't touch(and I wouldn't blame them) Ted
http://www.maaca.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=11982

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from 4Max:

Ah, yes, you maybe right about top of box - I guess no-one will see it (but I'll know…damn!)
Stencils are coming from these guys
http://www.thisoldgame.com/products/kings-and-queens-pinball-stencil-set

Those guys used to have a lot more pinball stencils on their site. Wonder what happened? Only show K & Q's and Atlantis.
You're webbing looks great!! Don't worry about top of backbox, no one's going to see it.

#42 9 years ago

For webbing, I just get some acrylic black from Michaels or AC Moore and a stiff 3" paint brush from the local hardware store. Dilute the paint with some water and practice on some plywood until you get the effect you're going for.

That repaint looks nice, so far!

2 months later
#43 9 years ago

Next update after the winter weather. Applied the stencils - patience required to align!
IMG_1898.JPGIMG_1898.JPG
True Blue applied
IMG_1899.JPGIMG_1899.JPG
Stencils off
IMG_1905.JPGIMG_1905.JPGIMG_1904.JPGIMG_1904.JPG

Next update, the Banner red.

The blue and red are gloss (could not find satin), what are the thoughts on spraying a coat of Krylon satin finish? If there's any chance that could mess things up, I'll leave it as is!

#44 9 years ago

I would seal with some sort of compatible clear, Satin sheen is a good choice too.

#45 9 years ago

Varathane works pretty well. I did a cabinet by brushing on 3-4 coats sanding between then buffing out the finish. If anything it looks a little too polished compared to an original painted cab.

#46 9 years ago

Here's the finished product - I'm pretty happy how this all turned out for my first cabinet re-paint.
IMG_1920.JPGIMG_1920.JPGIMG_1919.JPGIMG_1919.JPG
Now just to put it all back together, lets hope I took enough notes and photos when I took it apart!

Thank you to everyone for all the excellent advice along the way.

#47 9 years ago

Wow! Looks like a professional paint job.

#48 9 years ago

very well don Danny!
you did a great job on your first one.

#49 9 years ago

Nicely done!

#50 9 years ago

Well done!

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