(Topic ID: 220247)

Nerdygrrl Gets Knighted: A Black Knight Adventure

By nerdygrrl

5 years ago


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  • 102 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by nerdygrrl
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There are 102 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
15
#1 5 years ago

A buddy of mine dropped me a line the other day about two pins (PinBot and Black Knight) that had popped up about 4 hours from me and 2 and change from him. The backstory from the son who was selling them was that his mom was a huge pinhead and his dad was an electrical engineer and they had been in the house since he was a kid. He was moving and just wanted the games gone.

The pins seemed like they had a ton of potential. I was desperate to get out of town and hit the shore and my buddy had a bad shoulder and would need help with the pin he wanted to grab so it seemed like a fun adventure. That was until I woke up at 0400 the morning of and realized we were experiencing what could be only described as a monsoon. I hit the road at 0530 and drove two plus hours to meet my buddy in NH. The roads were terrible, the rain would switch between normal to massive downpour. It didn't change much from NH to ME.

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When we got to the seller's house we were taken to the basement. We were shown the PinBot first, that booted and looked solid minus a few broken plastics. Then we were taken to the backroom where the gimp, er Black Knight was kept. The game was a hot mess, we removed the BG and paint literally started raining down off of it. Powered it on and it was deader than Tom Petty. Looked over the PF and while the guy understood electrical maintenance had never heard of wax. In addition there were tons of broken plastics

Me being me, I still bought the train wreck, albeit at a discounted price. I don't plan to go crazy on this one, just get it looking nice and playing right.

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We spent the next hour or so breaking down the pins and walking them about 400 yards through a major downpour and the wet grass to the van. When all was said and done we were drenched, but we got a couple of sweet arse pins and had lunch plans for the Great Lost Bear in Portland, ME. If in town, I recommend the All Might Cheesus, a burger sandwiched between two grilled cheese sandwiches.
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My favorite parts about these pickups are the backstories of the machines, the people you meet and the adventures along the way-like this Tramp House in Richmond, NH. When all was said and done it was a fifteen hour day, the bulk majority driving through terrible conditions. The sun did finally manage to come out after we unloaded my buddy's game at his place.
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#2 5 years ago

Like I said, I love the backstories of the sellers and machines. This guy kept binders filled with the game manuals and schematics as well as repair logs etc. It turns out het had bought the BK in 1987. This game has been home use for 31 years. I just wish it had been a more caring and loving and wax filled home.
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#3 5 years ago

It amazes me that a guy that could research so much and have all of these manuals and everything would not have heard that waxing was an essential maintenance. This poor PF. This is a great example of why "Home Use Blah, Blah, Blah) means sh*t.
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#4 5 years ago

The cab has the typical basement funk happening and today is bright and sunny so it was a good day to defunk the knight.

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#5 5 years ago

Today was also the first day I could seriously look over the cab. Hmmmmm I was told this guy was an electrical engineer. Something is not adding up. I mean, shouldn't electrical engineers know about batteries...the hot mess gets hotter and messier.
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#6 5 years ago

I was told that one of the magnets had stopped working. Hmmmm, this and that blown out transistor could have something to do with it.

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#7 5 years ago

I'm starting to doubt the electrical engineer story. What is this world coming to if we can't trust guys on the interwebs claiming to be the kids of electrical engineers?

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#8 5 years ago

Some more questionable repairs that look like they were done by someone other than an electrical engineer.

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#9 5 years ago

That's pretty much all for today. I am letting that stinky knight sit outside a bit more and then I shall move it inside. Tomorrow I will start to address some of these wiring hacks and maybe try to get it to boot. After that it will be fun times with some vinegar to see if we can salvage this PCB.

I don't plan to go too crazy with this one. I would like to get some new plastics and a better BG and given the news that CPR announced yesterday this seems likely. Not sure about the PF yet, after my Whirlwind CPR experience I don' think I would go repro PF again. That being said, it may be a fun one to send out to just have the inserts fixed and PF cleared.

#10 5 years ago

Nice pickup, looks like it would be a great candidate for a Hardtop as well, cheaper than a playfield swap and less work!

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Nice pickup, looks like it would be a great candidate for a Hardtop as well, cheaper than a playfield swap and less work!

I was thinking the same thing! I don't mind the swaps, but I don't think I will ever go repro again.

#12 5 years ago

Welcome to the land of the Black Knight. I swapped my playfield with a CPR repro last summer and my biggest complaint still is that they did not use the jeweled inserts, maybe a hardtop then. Good luck on bringing it back to life. The backstory of any pin adventure is for sure one of the fun parts of this hobby.

#13 5 years ago

Great story!
"Defunk the Knight" is my new catchphrase.

#14 5 years ago

Well, i know a guy who works as a electrician in his daily grind, but when i asked him to help me out with he displayproblem i have on my JL he backpedaled when seeing how a pinball looks in the backbox claiming it was over his head, so it kinda seems that being an electrician doesnt make you expert on all kinds of electricity, which i kinda thought. LOL

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

Well, i know a guy who works as a electrician in his daily grind, but when i asked him to help me out with he displayproblem i have on my JL he backpedaled when seeing how a pinball looks in the backbox claiming it was over his head, so it kinda seems that being an electrician doesnt make you expert on all kinds of electricity, which i kinda thought. LOL

This guy was an electrical engineer so a few steps above your average electrician.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I was thinking the same thing! I don't mind the swaps, but I don't think I will ever go repro again.

You had a terrible first experience, I’ll grant you that. But I’ve never heard of issues like you had before, so, if you do end up loving this game, there is a Mirco PF coming for Black Night that you could consider.

Great find and story on this one.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

You had a terrible first experience, I’ll grant you that. But I’ve never heard of issues like you had before, so, if you do end up loving this game, there is a Mirco PF coming for Black Night that you could consider.
Great find and story on this one.

Yeah, it seems that PF run was plagued with issues. I see so many folks jumping ship and listing theirs. The stories I have read from others who have finished are just as bad.

It's good to know that Micro will be running some PF's. It's definitely not a must, but definitely something I would consider depending on how much it costs to get this up and running.

#18 5 years ago

Two great games. Nice find

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

You had a terrible first experience, I’ll grant you that. But I’ve never heard of issues like you had before, so, if you do end up loving this game, there is a Mirco PF coming for Black Night that you could consider.
Great find and story on this one.

If the game was mine i would try and repaint it by hand instead, though, its not that badly grinded.

Also congratz on the pins, both BK and a Pinbot are on my "*Sigh* maybe i'll find cheap enough someday" wishlist.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from chad:

Two great games. Nice find

Yeah, I can't complain. My buddy got a pretty decent PinBot that should clean up very nicely and I got this Knight for cheap enough that I have a lot of room to work with.

#21 5 years ago

"Deader than Tom Petty"....lol......nice find! Congrats!

#22 5 years ago

Welcome to the BK club! I just love this game.

You might be shocked how nice you can make that PF look with a handful of Magic Erasers and some 91% isopropal alcohol. Pull out the colored paint pens for touch-ups (the colors on this PF are basic), some Novus 2, wax and you will have a great player!

Also, you either have a Black Knight LE playfield or someone modded a regular BK with the micro switches. I see them on the upper PF trough in your pictures. You don't have the LE apron, however.

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from Luzur:

If the game was mine i would try and repaint it by hand instead, though, its not that badly grinded.
Also congratz on the pins, both BK and a Pinbot are on my "*Sigh* maybe i'll find cheap enough someday" wishlist.

I'm pretty good with many aspects of restoration, the one thing that I am absolutely terrible with is painting and drawing. I don't have that brain to hand connection. I actually failed studio art a couple of times in high school, only passing b/c it was a graduation requirement and the teacher took pity. That being said, I do believe you are correct that this should be an easy one to clean up.

Quoted from Schwaggs:

Welcome to the BK club! I just love this game.
You might be shocked how nice you can make that PF look with a handful of Magic Erasers and some 91% isopropal alcohol. Pull out the colored paint pens for touch-ups (the colors on this PF are basic), some Novus 2, wax and you will have a great player!
Also, you either have a Black Knight LE playfield or someone modded a regular BK with the micro switches. I see them on the upper PF trough in your pictures. You don't have the LE apron, however.

I did some light cleanup yesterday, and agree that this should come out nicely. I was just amazed the level of dirt on this PF. It looks almost as if it was stored w/o glass for a period, but given the difficulty we had removing the glass and the buildup on that it also felt like the glass had never been removed.

I don't think it was an LE, but maybe produced around the same time so crossover parts. I'll take some more photos of the switches, etc today.

#24 5 years ago

Working on getting the Black Knight setup in the house today. Step one is addressing the surface rust on the legs. Everybody has their own methods, for something like this, I prefer white vinegar and a green scrubbie. It's cheap, takes about a minute or so per leg, there is little cleanup, and they come out looking great. Only downside is that you'll end up craving chips.

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#25 5 years ago

I got the cab inside and vacuumed and got it up on four legs with the back box attached. I need to address this sagging light board. So far no matter what I loosen and pull the mounts don't move much. I am leaving it for another less than 100 degree day.

All in all the cab was the best part. I would say easily an 8.5/9 out of 10. In some ways this is one of the cleanest/less beat pins I have taken in. I'll add some cab pics when things are less tight in the game room.

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#26 5 years ago

I was also able to give the circuit boards another look. I found another spliced wire and some questionable caps. Look at this little chubbers. I plan on rebuilding the PS this week and doing the inline fuse mod.
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Fun Fact: Sprague capacitors were made in North Adams, MA (about 40 min from me). MASS MoCA currently resides at their old factory site (the more you know).
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#27 5 years ago

Very cool! The engineer stuff is funny. I work with electrical and all sorts of other engineers with a lot of letters behind their name. All but a few aren’t worthy even as a toy train engineer. TOOT TOOT! Enjoying the story and your progress. Thanks for sharing!

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from dmacy:

Very cool! The engineer stuff is funny. I work with electrical and all sorts of other engineers with a lot of letters behind their name. All but a few aren’t worthy even as a toy train engineer. TOOT TOOT! Enjoying the story and your progress. Thanks for sharing!

I have a couple of friends that are electrical engineers/physicists, we have all gotten a good laugh at these repairs. Some of them just leave me scratching my head. I mean why solder? Why not repin?

I need to deal with the cut wires on the upper PF. The yellow and white are more than likely GI, but I'm not sure why he tied in some of the stuff that he did. I am pretty well versed in System 11's, but this is my first System 7 so I got some learnin to do.

#29 5 years ago

OK back at it today. First thing on the agenda was to sort out what got nuked here. Oddly enough this is the "cabinet Wiring" harness. Typically these are all of the lines that run from the body of the cab: coin door lights, flipper button, credits buttons, volume, etc.
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That being said, if you look at the bottom of the "cabinet wiring schematics" you see a two line lead from the upper playfield GI goig into pins 1 and 2 of the cabinet harness. Yo no say.
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Which totaly checks out given my cut upper PF GI.

One mystery down. Oh so many more to go.
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#30 5 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

OK back at it today. First thing on the agenda was to sort out what got nuked here. Oddly enough this is the "cabinet Wiring" harness. Typically these are all of the lines that run from the body of the cab: coin door lights, flipper button, credits buttons, volume, etc.

The connector you are holding in your first picture likely burned because it was plugged into the black mating connector, which would be wrong. It is hard to believe Williams did not ever think anyone would swap the black and white connectors, even by accident. They easily could have used a different size connector to prevent this.

So with that said, you may have some board repairs to do.

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

The connector you are holding in your first picture likely burned because it was plugged into the black mating connector, which would be wrong. It is hard to believe Williams did not ever think anyone would swap the black and white connectors, even by accident. They easily could have used a different size connector to prevent this.
So with that said, you may have some board repairs to do.

This could very well be true. I am slowly making my way through it. The origial story was that it was working fine except for the left magnet. Some of this wiring leads me to believe otherwise.

#32 5 years ago

With the connector sorted out, I moved on to testing my power supply. First I pulled all fuses out of socket and doubled check spec and continuity. All checked out fine except for F2 (solenoids), that was blown. If you remember we had a smoked transistor (Q2) on the MPU which drives the left sling. This is more than likely the culprit of the blown fuse.

I went ahead and removed all outputs so as not to fry anything, fired up the cab and went down the checklist: 12V, 5V, HV, lamps and solenoids. Only my 12V and lamps were in spec. I have cap kits for the PS and sound board en route as well as HV and 5V rebuild kits. The cap kits should be here today, the rest of the resistors, etc sometime early next week. I also ordered some bits to modernize the MPU.

I'm pretty much going down the Clay's guide/Vid's guide checklist on these rebuilds.

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#33 5 years ago

My cap kits for the PS and sound board came in yesterday as well as a replacement Q5 for the PS. I got everything swapped over. The cap kit fixed my solenoid line issue, but not my 5V line. After the cap kit it was still reading a steady 1.8 down the line. BR and Q5 tested fine, but I decided to toss the new Q5 in, anyway. Oddly enough this started to act up.

Thread here:

Tossed my old Q5 in and the voltages leveled out. Just to be safe I threw in a new BR, and that got me up to around 2V steady. The only other component on that 5V line that was not swapped out was the IC. So I ordered a new one from G-P-E today.

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#34 5 years ago

While I wait on the rest of the parts for the PS I decided to try and clean up the MPU and Driver a bit. Nothing that a toothbrush and white vinegar can't clean up. FRom green to grey in about two minutes time.

I don't want to do too much to it as I haven't been able to fire with a working PS. I would prefer to start at ground zero, knowing that I haven't done any repair work and go from there. It's never a good idea to add additional variables before being able to test as it makes it hard to determine if a presenting problem was pre exiting or a result of your work.

Seriously guys, look at some of these solder joints. I guess not all electrical engineers are created equal. Oof, these board are going to need a lot of TLC. For my own sanity I may just send them out to be reflowed. I hate trying to get the points clean enough for new solder to take hold.

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#35 5 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

Seriously guys, look at some of these solder joints. I guess not all electrical engineers are created equal. Oof, these board are going to need a lot of TLC. For my own sanity I may just send them out to be reflowed. I hate trying to get the points clean enough for new solder to take hold.

Those solder joints look factory to me. I don't think the electrical engineer had a hand in that problem! They look pretty oxidized to me. That can happen when the game is stored in very humid conditions. Sometimes just age causes them to get oxidized on their own. That being said, you do have some joints that look worse than "usual". I've seen boards work fine looking like that. They will most likely need some restoration to be reliable.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Those solder joints look factory to me. I don't think the electrical engineer had a hand in that problem! They look pretty oxidized to me. That can happen when the game is stored in very humid conditions. Sometimes just age causes them to get oxidized on their own. That being said, you do have some joints that look worse than "usual". I've seen boards work fine looking like that. They will most likely need some restoration to be reliable.

He installed new female connectors on the 40, or at least it looked like he did. Hard to tell in that pic post vinegar., but there were some really shotty and burned solder points in there. One that was completely depressed.

This will be my ongoing joke mostly b/c I bought this thinking "maintained by EE should be a quick fix."

Here is what that connector looked like pre-vinegar, etc.

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#37 5 years ago

Don't know if you saw this but GPE has replacement housings for your melted one if you want to restore the wiring. https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=03-06-1361

Easy work to swap with one of these pin extraction tools: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W-HT-2285

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Don't know if you saw this but GPE has replacement housings for your melted one if you want to restore the wiring. https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=03-06-1361
Easy work to swap with one of these pin extraction tools: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=W-HT-2285

No, I had missed that when I placed my last order. I was looking at .084's and didn't realize the size difference. Thanks so much for the link, I will order these up stat!

#39 5 years ago

Liking your threads nerdygrrl

Good find!

#40 5 years ago

Good to see CPR is making new BK plastics again. Highly likely we'll see a BK playfield again from them.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Good to see CPR is making new BK plastics again. Highly likely we'll see a BK playfield again from them.

More than likely. Micro also has one coming out in October, with and without glitter.

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Liking your threads nerdygrrl
Good find!

Thanks man, I appreciated the kind words.

#43 5 years ago

Def an enjoyable thread! Just wanted to make a suggestion--when i bought my BK, i found the flippers to be a bit on the weak side. The right flipper could make it all the way up the left ramp on occasion, but usually not by much if it didn't just roll back down. Rebuilt flippers, new eos and cab switches, it was always just kinda meh though. I got small gains with the rebuild, and probably have to blame myself a bit for insisting that i need my BK pitched steep (I keep a 2x4 under the rear legs for maximum pitch )....

Anyway, years after i got my BK i made a new friend that has taken to the hobby like a fish to water. He bought his own BK eventually, and one day had a problem with the flippers a couple months after rebuilding them--none would work (and the fuse was fine). I tried damn near everything--new coils, new eos, cab switches, new male and female connector for the flippers on the driver board, re-flowed solder to flipper relay. Voltage was good at all 4 coils. Turned out it was the flipper *power* connector on the power supply board (the connectors weren't burned, but they weren't shiny either). Edit: i looked it up, it's connector 3J3 on the power supply board.

Not only did it fix his problem, but combined with the new switches and rebuilds, it was playing arguably better than mine! So, when i got home i pulled the ps out of my BK and replaced the flipper power connector. I'll be damned, that finally made the difference i was chasing from the beginning! Moral of the story of course is to replace that connector! Might save you a lot of headaches, eos adjustments, etc etc

Anyways, keep up the good work!

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from frunch:

Def an enjoyable thread! Just wanted to make a suggestion--when i bought my BK, i found the flippers to be a bit on the weak side. The right flipper could make it all the way up the left ramp on occasion, but usually not by much if it didn't just roll back down. Rebuilt flippers, new eos and cab switches, it was always just kinda meh though. I got small gains with the rebuild, and probably have to blame myself a bit for insisting that i need my BK pitched steep (I keep a 2x4 under the rear legs for maximum pitch )....
Anyway, years after i got my BK i made a new friend that has taken to the hobby like a fish to water. He bought his own BK eventually, and one day had a problem with the flippers a couple months after rebuilding them--none would work (and the fuse was fine). I tried damn near everything--new coils, new eos, cab switches, new male and female connector for the flippers on the driver board, re-flowed solder to flipper relay. Voltage was good at all 4 coils. Turned out it was the flipper *power* connector on the power supply board (the connectors weren't burned, but they weren't shiny either). Edit: i looked it up, it's connector 3J3 on the power supply board.
Not only did it fix his problem, but combined with the new switches and rebuilds, it was playing arguably better than mine! So, when i got home i pulled the ps out of my BK and replaced the flipper power connector. I'll be damned, that finally made the difference i was chasing from the beginning! Moral of the story of course is to replace that connector! Might save you a lot of headaches, eos adjustments, etc etc
Anyways, keep up the good work!

This is awesome advice info. Thank you for it. I actually have a buddy pulling his hair out on a similar issue with his Firepower 2. I will suggest he take a look at his connectors!

#45 5 years ago

We interrupt your regularly scheduled restoration thread to bring you a new pinball crime drama: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/nerdygrrls-black-knight-adventure-takes-a-turnfloridian-grandma-scam

#46 5 years ago

I got the IC in for my 5V line on my PS. Sadly getting the IC out proved to be more difficult than I though and I broke C15 the glass/ceramic capacitor. These repairs are pretty straight forward, but these boards with the solder through totes sucks. Lesson learned, don't attempt to pull chips and sockets without a good solder sucker.

At least I have the new IC installed, now we wait for a replacement capacitor. One day I shall have a working 5V line, today is just not that day.

Not a lot I can do until I get that part. I don't want to mess with too much until I can test fire and see where things stand. Well, nothing except maybe pick up a second BK project from a buddy of mine tomorrow

I am going to poach some parts off of that, and then pass it along to another local collector who is dying to do a head to toe restoration on one as well. He offered to buy this one from me, but I didn't want to part with it.

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#47 5 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I got the IC in for my 5V line on my PS. Sadly getting the IC out proved to be more difficult than I though and I broke C15 the glass/ceramic capacitor. These repairs are pretty straight forward, but these boards with the solder through totes sucks. Lesson learned, don't attempt to pull chips and sockets without a good solder sucker.
At least I have the new IC installed, now we wait for a replacement capacitor. One day I shall have a working 5V line, today is just not that day.
Not a lot I can do until I get that part. I don't want to mess with too much until I can test fire and see where things stand. Well, nothing except maybe pick up a second BK project from a buddy of mine tomorrow
I am going to poach some parts off of that, and then pass it along to another local collector who is dying to do a head to toe restoration on one as well. He offered to buy this one from me, but I didn't want to part with it.

I bought a couple turkey basters from the dollar store for my solder sucker

#48 5 years ago

I keep telling myself I will buy a proper station and then beer, bourbon and pins get in the way. I mean $300? That's a lot of good times right there.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I keep telling myself I will buy a proper station and then beer, bourbon and pins get in the way. I mean $300? That's a lot of good times right there.

A proper desoldering station will be worth it. I got one as a gift, and at this point, I'm more than willing to pay that sort of money if I ever need to replace it. It makes repair work so much easier. All you have to worry about at that point is any damage to the board that makes tracks more prone to being lifted. It makes one much more likely to drink the bourbon for enjoyment rather than coping.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from nerdygrrl:

I keep telling myself I will buy a proper station and then beer, bourbon and pins get in the way. I mean $300? That's a lot of good times right there.

The really good techs that I know keep telling me to invest in quality tools. But $200+ for a Fluke DMM is hard to swallow, or a good soldering iron or desoldering station for that matter. I don't feel I do enough repair work (yet) to justify that but I understand why they keep telling me to spend the cash!

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From: $ 30.00
$ 160.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
 
From: $ 26.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com
 
From: $ 5.75
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 15.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
 
$ 53.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 69.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Pinball Pimp
 
$ 959.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
2,500 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Vista, CA
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