(Topic ID: 264533)

Neptune (Gottlieb) - Various Issues


By MaxAsh

4 months ago



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#1 4 months ago

Hello All - picked up a Neptune in good shape, and I'm working on cleaning it up and getting it working well again. It starts up and plays, but has a few things not 100%, so I want to sort them out.

First issue I'm looking at are the rollovers. When triggering any of the "card" rollovers (J, Q, K, etc) or stand-up targets, the appropriate relay on the underside of the playfield will pull in as it should and stay that way. No Scoring occurs though, and the chimes don't go off either. This is true of all the associated relays on that relay bank. All I hear is the buzz of the relay changing states as it should, and nothing else.

I found some other threads on Neptune, and one of them mentioned a chime issue that was related to the resistor on the Q relay. Could that be related perhaps? Thread is here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/neptune-chimes-not-working-all-the-time#post-1888242

Watching the video they included, it was somewhat similar to my problem, but mine doesn't have a scoring motor action, just the "buzz" of the associated relay triggering and nothing else.

Thank you in advance for any advice/assistance!

#2 4 months ago

Do you have the schematic? I think this game has a Series relay which usually means that its coil runs in series with other relay coils, or it runs on the 6 volt lamp supply. While it looks the same as other relay coils a Series relay coil has a much lower resistance so it can operate at the lower voltage. Series relay coils are sometimes incorrectly swapped out for other standard relay coils that won't work on the lower voltage. (see https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-team-one-roll-over-circuit#post-3524781 for example).

Does your Series relay fire whenever a card rollover is closed?

/Mark

#3 4 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Do you have the schematic?

Not yet, ordering soon though, if I can't find a friend with one.

Quoted from MarkG:

Does your Series relay fire whenever a card rollover is closed?
/Mark

I'll go take a look and report back!

#4 4 months ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Not yet, ordering soon though, if I can't find a friend with one.

I'll go take a look and report back!

one issue I had is somebody replaced the series relay with the wrong coil messing up scoring. Unless its the proper relay/low resistence it wont fire since its in series with another coil... check its number

#5 4 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

Does your Series relay fire whenever a card rollover is closed?

It turns out the Series relay is the "Q" relay, mentioned in my first post. Sadly, it does not pull in at all when the rollovers are triggered. I manually pushed the armature in, and the game scored the appropriate points and made the chime go off.

Assuming you're correct and the Q (Series) relay should pull in when the rollover and stand-up switches are closed, I need to try and figure out why that's not happening. Anyone with the schematic handy able to give me an idea of the section regarding the "Q" (Series) relay and rollover/stand-up switches?

#6 4 months ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

one issue I had is somebody replaced the series relay with the wrong coil messing up scoring. Unless its the proper relay/low resistence it wont fire since its in series with another coil... check its number

Everything looks original (and in really nice shape) on the internals, but I'll double-check the coil number.

#7 4 months ago

An easy check...make sure those reset banks are locked in correctly(fully seated) with wing nut.(s). If not, that can wreak havoc. Just something to check. Great game. I used to own one years ago.

#8 4 months ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

one issue I had is somebody replaced the series relay with the wrong coil messing up scoring. Unless its the proper relay/low resistence it wont fire since its in series with another coil... check its number

Following up with this question: it's the correct, original coil A-9746

Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

An easy check...make sure those reset banks are locked in correctly(fully seated) with wing nut.(s). If not, that can wreak havoc. Just something to check. Great game. I used to own one years ago.

Everything seems nice and tight, thank you for the suggestion though!

#9 4 months ago

I just jumpered across where the resistor on the "Q" (Series) relay is (per another thread I was reading) and if I held the rollovers down briefly, it actually caused the Q relay to pull and scoring/chimes to work. Same with the stand-up targets. I'm guessing this means that resistor is bad, and not doing it's job? I'm unfamiliar with a resistor being mixed in with relays like that, but based on what I'm reading, it seems likely that's the issue.

Can anyone confirm?

#10 4 months ago

Do you have a meter? The value should be marked or at least on the schematic for comparison. Odds are that it has gone open circuit or to some high value due to a crack inside or at one of the two leads.

#11 4 months ago

Yep, I have a meter. Not sure of the value since I don't have the schematic yet. Going by pics from another post, the resistor is labeled 10ohm, 10%, 10W. I assume to properly test it, I need to desolder. Sidenote: with the jumper there, and after lots of switch testing, I ended up popping one of the 12V fuses. So I need to be more careful.

#12 4 months ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

I just jumpered across where the resistor on the "Q" (Series) relay is (per another thread I was reading) and if I held the rollovers down briefly, it actually caused the Q relay to pull and scoring/chimes to work. Same with the stand-up targets. I'm guessing this means that resistor is bad, and not doing it's job? I'm unfamiliar with a resistor being mixed in with relays like that, but based on what I'm reading, it seems likely that's the issue.
Can anyone confirm?

It does sound like your resistor might be bad.

When I fixed the resistor on my Neptune, they came in sets of three; I still have two left. DM me your address and I can mail one to you.

IMG_6573 (resized).jpg
#13 4 months ago

You sir, are a kind soul. I'll shoot you a message. Thank you!

#14 4 months ago

I pulled the old resistor in anticipation of the one being sent and bad news... it tests at 10.2ohms. Seems ok. I'll still replace just in case, but now what, if that's not it? Thoughts?

#15 4 months ago

Maybe the resistor had a bad joint.

Your replacement went out in today’s mail. Should be there by the end of the week.

#16 4 months ago
Quoted from leckmeck:

Maybe the resistor had a bad joint.
Your replacement went out in today’s mail. Should be there by the end of the week.

Excellent, thank you sir! I'll let you know how it goes. Working on cleaning up the steppers now. The one that controls the "Wow" add a ball feature is slow moving. Overall the inside of the machine (head and body) are in amazingly clean condition. So much of it looks shiny and almost new, I'm impressed.

#17 4 months ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Working on cleaning up the steppers now. The one that controls the "Wow"

I got a very clean Neptune that had the same problem, the unit was all gunked up - it didn't move at all, I needed to apply a very fine oil to the friction points and work it in the get all the parts to move again and then cleaned it all up.

As far as the roll over's, sounds like a dirty or incorrectly gaped contact, when you the schematic you can trace the path and look for a problem.

#18 4 months ago

I installed the new resistor (thank you leckmeck !), but sadly no change. Rollovers and stand-up targets still not scoring or triggering the chimes.

#19 4 months ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

I installed the new resistor (thank you leckmeck !), but sadly no change. Rollovers and stand-up targets still not scoring or triggering the chimes.

Bummer.

Since Q will pull in without the resistor, maybe the coil is incorrect as markg surmised.

#20 4 months ago

Is the Q relay coil good? Didn’t see if it was tested.

#21 4 months ago
Quoted from Cash_Riprock:

Is the Q relay coil good? Didn’t see if it was tested.

I double-checked, it's the correct coil it seems.

Q pulls in when I jumper over the resistor, and the scoring and such seems to work when I do. However, after a a few minutes of this, one of the 12A fuses blew, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

#22 4 months ago
Quoted from MaxAsh:

Q pulls in when I jumper over the resistor, and the scoring and such seems to work when I do. However, after a a few minutes of this, one of the 12A fuses blew, so I'm not sure what's going on there.

Assuming that the resistor is wired in series with the Q relay coil, jumpering around it provides more power (voltage and current) to the Q relay. The higher current puts you over the 12A limit of the fuse.

Although your relay coil works, it's not getting enough power for some reason. Have you measured the Q relay coil resistance with one solder lug desoldered from the game? Does it have the expected resistance? Could it have the wrong spring on it?

It would help to see the circuit for this relay. For example is it on the 6 or 24 side of the schematic? Is it in series with any other relay coils? Etc...

#23 4 months ago

Some fuzzy schematics in this thread... don't see the resistor (lots of the relevant circuit missing), but do see a bunch of coils in series.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/neptune-chimes-not-working-all-the-time#post-1886714

Edit 1: I do see a hint of the resistor (label only) on the left side (schematic is sideways) of one of the schematics. Also corrected link to post.

Edit 2: I think the resistor is in the Q hold path from some of the pics?

3 weeks later
#24 3 months ago

All - just wanted to report in since it's been a while. I moved houses, so everything has been packed up for a bit. I hope to get some space and setup in the near future, at which time I'll be digging right back into this project. I have schematics in hand now, so that will help hopefully. Before taking it apart, I had cleaned some additional switches and such, and somehow made things worse (it powers on to Tilt). I only messed with a few things, so hopefully easy to track down and get back to work on the rollover / Q - Series relay issue.

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