(Topic ID: 275298)

(Fixed) Need VSU-100 troubleshooting help

By emsrph

3 years ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Quench
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 3 years ago

As I try to make progress with this project Flight 2000 it’s time to dive into the vocalizer card.

Read a bunch of posts and with the help of another working card have gotten this far:

Game ROM and Speech Chip are good and the game will talk with the working board. So the MPU and SB-300 sound card are set correctly for speech. The project vocalizer board won’t talk in game play or solenoid tests but sounds still work.

On the project vsu-100 I have 5 volts and -10 volts at the test points. I need to order capacitor kit to replace originals.

In the meantime are there other measurements I can take comparing the working and non-working cards to see if there are other parts I need to source?

Here are front and back of the non-working board. Thank you.

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#2 3 years ago

R40, R34, R11 look like they need resoldering at a minimum. I would replace the header pins, the resistors and the capacitors if it were my board

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Game ROM and Speech Chip are good and the game will talk with the working board.

Can you clarify, the ROM and speech chip on the project speech board both work on the working speech board?

If you've got a logic probe, hook the black lead to the GND test point (TP1) and the red lead to the +5V test point (TP2).

Firstly, the speech chip wants a pulsing clock signal so it can process commands.
Put the logic probe on pin 3 of the 555 timer chip at U2. What does the logic probe indicate?

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from Friengineer:

R40, R34, R11 look like they need resoldering at a minimum. I would replace the header pins, the resistors and the capacitors if it were my board

Good eye. I touched those solder joints up but no change.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Can you clarify, the ROM and speech chip on the project speech board both work on the working speech board?
If you've got a logic probe, hook the black lead to the GND test point (TP1) and the red lead to the +5V test point (TP2).
Firstly, the speech chip wants a pulsing clock signal so it can process commands.
Put the logic probe on pin 3 of the 555 timer chip at U2. What does the logic probe indicate?

Yes, the ROM and speech chip were swapped from the non-working board onto the working board and they are good. Left the working board chips in the non-working board but they didn't make the non-working board work.

Pin 3 of U2 = immediately upon game power up all three lights on the logic probe (High, Low and Pulse) are lit and do not change whether in attract mode or during solenoid test. Both boards (working and non-working) have the same logic probe results.

#6 3 years ago

Some more data, following some of the tests suggested by Quench in a previous troubleshooting thread (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/flight-2000-no-speech):

U9 - EPROM
pins 1 and 2 tested High during boot with some Low/Pulse then stayed High

Rest of pins tested during solenoid test only, can go back and see if any changes during booting if that would be significant

Low 3,5,6,7,8,9,12,15,17,19,20,21,23,24
High 1,2,4,10,11,13,14,16,18,22

U6
pins 8,9,10 All High on boot and unchanged during solenoid test

U5
pins 2,5,7,10,15 All High on boot and unchanged during solenoid test
pin 12 High/Low/Pulse

U4
pins 2,5,7,10,15 All start High on boot but first time thru solenoid test went Low and stayed Low
pin 12 High/Low/Pulse

U8 voltage
pin 3 during attract mode +2.03 volts, went to +3.33 volts during solenoid test
pin 40 during attract mode +4.90 volts, went to +4.96 volts during solenoid test

Let me know if that leads to other tests or some theories...Thanks again.

#7 3 years ago

After re-rereading the other thread, here’s a couple more measurements that may contribute:

U6
Pins 1,6 Low on boot then changes to High, then High/Low/Pulse in attract mode. Stays H/L/P during solenoid test

Pins 2,3,4,5 Low on boot then changes to High with a brief Pulse in each LED beep. Goes Low in attract mode and stays Low during solenoid test (maybe one quick pulse)

Resistor R15- Top= same as U8 pin 3-
+2.03 volts on boot and attract mode, goes to +3.33 volts during solenoid test.

Resistor R15- Bottom= +5.09 volts attract and during solenoid testing.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

U5
pins 2,5,7,10,15 All High on boot and unchanged during solenoid test

Looks like sound commands aren't getting latched properly.

U5 output pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12 and 15 are a binary command that tells the speech processor which word in it's vocabulary it should say when prompted.
These pins should probably all be low during solenoid test mode except when speech occurs from solenoid test #29 to #09 and you should see pins 2, 5 and 7 change/pulse between low and high. You should also see U5 pin 9 pulse from low to high to low to prompt the speech processor to say the word it's commanded to.

So U5 pins 2, 5, 6 and 9 should all show some sort of activity during solenoid test #29 to #09 when words are spoken.
Can you plugin your working board and probe these pins to compare against the non functioning board.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Looks like sound commands aren't getting latched properly.
U5 output pins 2, 5, 7, 10, 12 and 15 are a binary command that tells the speech processor which word in it's vocabulary it should say when prompted.
These pins should probably all be low during solenoid test mode except when speech occurs from solenoid test #29 to #09 and you should see pins 2, 5 and 7 change/pulse between low and high. You should also see U5 pin 9 pulse from low to high to low to prompt the speech processor to say the word it's commanded to.
So U5 pins 2, 5, 6 and 9 should all show some sort of activity during solenoid test #29 to #09 when words are spoken.
Can you plugin your working board and probe these pins to compare against the non functioning board.

Hadn’t checked U5 pins 6 and 9 on non-working board. Here for completeness and comparison to working board:

U5
Pin 6- starts High then H/L/P in attract mode. Stays H/L/P in solenoid test. Same behavior for working board.

Pin 9- starts Low with Pulse and High with LED beeps during boot. Stays Low in attract mode and during solenoid test. Same start up for working board, except definite Pulse for each word spoken during solenoid test.

Working board pins 2 and 5-
Both are High for start up and attract mode. Get a Low and Pulse during speech.

So U5 is bad? Let me know if I should order this part and/or others to have for repair. Thank you for your help with this.

#10 3 years ago

Argh, sorry typo on my behalf. I meant U5 pins 2, 5, 7 and 9 (pin 7, not pin 6). Pin 2 will have the most activity so probe that one.

Quoted from emsrph:

Pin 9- starts Low with Pulse and High with LED beeps during boot.

Now put the faulty board back in.

The signal to pin 9 is essentially the same signal that drives the MPU LED so this is normal. You should see this happen on the non-working board. Please confirm.

We're not there yet. Need to know if pin 9 of U5 is getting pulses during power up and also during solenoid test mode when words should be spoken.

What does the logic probe indicate at pin 3 and pin 10 of the speech chip during speech in solenoid test?
With your multimeter what voltage do you measure on pin 40 of the speech chip between power up and when it should be speaking in solenoid test?
Does it change once, or a few times and if yes, when and between what voltages?

#11 3 years ago

U5
Pin 2
High for start up and attract mode. Only working board gives a Low and Pulse during speech.

Pin 7
Working board High in attract mode. Gives a Pulse and Low when speech starts, goes High halfway through speech. Repeats each solenoid test run. Non-working board stays High all the time.

Pin 9
Yes, non-working board starts Low with Pulse and High with LED beeps during boot. No pulses during solenoid test, stays Low. I think I slipped with the logic probe and maybe touched pin 10? Could have sworn it said "One".

U8 Speech Chip
Pin 3
Both boards are High/Low/Pulse all the time

Pin 10
Both boards are Low and then Pulse/High about 3-4 times latter half of boot then stay Low. Only working board has Pulse during solenoid when each word is spoken.

Voltage pin 40
Working board +5 volts at power up, goes to -10 when relay clicks during boot and back to +5 volts. During solenoid testing it is at +5 volts goes to -10.6 volts halfway thru speech and then back to +5 volts.

Non-working board also starts at +5 volts, then it goes to -7.11 volts when relay clicks during boot and then back to +5 volts. Stays at +4.97 constant during solenoid testing.

#12 3 years ago

Ok, it doesn't appear like the speech board is receiving any voice commands. Most likely because the MPU board thinks the speech board is busy.

Quoted from emsrph:

Voltage pin 40
Non-working board also starts at +5 volts, then it goes to -7.11 volts when relay clicks during boot and then back to +5 volts. Stays at +4.97 constant during solenoid testing.

Although not the exact same level, you appear to be getting activity on the speech processor busy signal. It then gets gated through U6 to the MPU board which polls and waits for the speech board to no longer be busy so the game software can issue a new voice command.

So, can you probe pins 8, 9 and 10 of U6 on both speech boards for comparison, again from power up through solenoid (speech) test mode.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

So, can you probe pins 8, 9 and 10 of U6 on both speech boards for comparison, again from power up through solenoid (speech) test mode.

U6

Pin 8
Low with Pulse goes High during boot. L/H/P during attract mode. During solenoid test stays L/H/P on both boards.

Pin 9
High goes to Low then back to High in attract mode. Stays High during solenoid test for non-working board.

The working board has the same start-up but in solenoid test it has Low/Pulse for every word and then back to High.

Pin 10
Low, then two pulses stayed Low in attract mode and stayed Low in solenoid test for non-working board.

Working board started Low, went High, Low, then H/L/P in attract mode. For each word spoken it went from H/L/P to H/P blinking then back to H/L/P.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Pin 10
Low, then two pulses stayed Low in attract mode and stayed Low in solenoid test for non-working board.

Hmm, at U6 when pin 9 is high and pin 8 has L/H/P, you should be seeing L/H/P on the pin 10 output. But you're seeing low on the pin 10 output. This is falsely telling the MPU board that the speech board is busy.

U6 is suspect, I would replace it. It's a "4081" CMOS quad 2-input AND gate.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Hmm, at U6 when pin 9 is high and pin 8 has L/H/P, you should be seeing L/H/P on the pin 10 output. But you're seeing low on the pin 10 output. This is falsely telling the MPU board that the speech board is busy.
U6 is suspect, I would replace it. It's a "4081" CMOS quad 2-input AND gate.

Part on order. Thank you for your diagnosis skills!

Will come back in a couple days with the verdict.

#16 3 years ago

While waiting for the replacement chip, you can do this little experiment (at your own risk!)
The U6 pin 10 output goes directly to the 5 pin connector on the speech board, specifically at J3 pin 5. This wire goes back to the MPU board as the Speech Busy Interrupt signal.

At the speech board, if you pull that wire out of J3 pin 5 connector and then jumper that wire to test point TP2 (+5V) on the speech board, this will tell the MPU board that the speech board is always ready to accepts voice commands.
You should now hear some speech.

#17 3 years ago

Chip is supposed to be received tomorrow. Otherwise I might do that.

I mentioned that my logic probe slipped when testing U5. I think it shorted pins 9 and 10. There were solenoids making a bunch of racket but I’m pretty sure the game said the word “one”.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

I mentioned that my logic probe slipped when testing U5. I think it shorted pins 9 and 10.

If U5 pin 10 was high when you shorted it to pin 9 then you forced the board to accept a speech command. So there's a good chance you hearing the word "one" wasn't your imagination.

#19 3 years ago

Oh Fudge (although I didn’t say Fudge)....

Ordered the wrong chip package. It’s a tiny surface mount version.

Didn’t see it on GPE site and got it from Mouser. Quick shipping but I screwed up and looks they don’t stock the one that is a replacement.

Gonna have to look around and more closely. Anyone have a source offhand? Thx

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#20 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Ordered the wrong chip package. It’s a tiny surface mount version.

Great Plains has them:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4081

While you're there, for few more pennies grab a 4051 aswell (used at U1 and U3)
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4051

Unfortunately he hasn't got any 4174/40174 that are used at U4 and U5

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Great Plains has them:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4081
While you're there, for few more pennies grab a 4051 aswell (used at U1 and U3)
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=4051
Unfortunately he hasn't got any 4174/40174 that are used at U4 and U5

Looking at my search history- it was the 4174 I looked for at GPE. Since that wasn't there I ordered U1,3,4,5,6,7 from Mouser (majority of them surface mount by mistake).

What are my chances that U5 is bad? Does the shorting of the leads there confirm that U6 was bad or that U5 also may have an issue?

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Does the shorting of the leads there confirm that U6 was bad or that U5 also may have an issue?

The lead shorting bypasses U6. I haven't delved deep enough into the software to know if there's any grace period for the busy signal becoming free before it should (which the lead shorting will do).

As you know from your working board, speech starts in solenoid test at number 29 and says "One", "Two", "Three", "Four", "Five", "Prepare", "Mission", "Stand". While the speech is triggered at number 29, it actually happens over the following course of solenoid tests 01 through 08.
If you want to try the lead shorting you may or may not hear some of the words during solenoid test in proper order, I'm guessing the words will be abruptly interrupted by the next word but you may or may not make some sense of it to know if the correct words are chosen (which will mean U5 is ok).

Since GPE doesn't have 4174 chips, worry about it after you get the 4081 if there's still issues.
For reference, 4174 chips are available from Mouser in DIP package as a different brand part number: CD40174BE

#23 3 years ago

That was it. Installed new U6 in a socket and....it speaks!!

Thank you Quench for your diagnostic work. You’ve got a lot of knowledge on this and appreciate you sharing it.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from emsrph:

That was it. Installed new U6 in a socket and....it speaks!!

Great to hear
Thanks for the update.

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