(Topic ID: 116704)

Need System 3 & 4 Sound ROM Help

By stangbat

9 years ago


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  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

Edit: See posts 6 and 11 for the solution and my conclusions.

Background: The game is a WMS Phoenix, the sound board came with a PROM and was jumpered for a PROM. It sounds like this:

Pretty much all the System 3 and 4 games sound like the above video (Contact, Disco Fever, etc.) It is a beepy sound. It is NOT the chime setting or chime sounds on these games, these games sound different than later System 6 and 7 games. If you switch the sound board to chimes, you get the ding-ding type sounds, same as you get with the chime setting on System 6 and 7.

If you download the ROM code for any of the System 3 & 4 games, it comes with Sound ROM 1. Sound ROM 1 is "Defender" type sounds and sound like this:

This isn't right for Phoenix, Disco Fever, Contact, etc.

Bear with me. I have a PROM from Phoenix that is the correct beepy type sounds. I have ROM 1 sounds from the download files on an EPROM, it makes the Tri Zone "Defender" type sounds.

-If I put ROM 1 in the sound board with the board jumpered for a ROM, I get the Tri Zone "Defender" type sounds.

-If I switch the jumpers and use the PROM from Phoenix in the sound board, I get the beepy sounds as heard in the Phoenix video.

This tells me that the ROM code itself must be different. My programmer will not read the PROM from Phoenix. So I can't dump the code and compare checksums or burn a new copy of the PROM's code.

Finally, the checksum for ROM1 is 00e951736aa9523ebbc587556bfd25b0
Anyone have or know where to find the code for the beepy type System 3 & 4 sounds? Or does anyone know what else could be going on?

Post edited by stangbat: Added information.

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Can you make an adapter to read this PROM with my GQ-4X? I would build one it if it is simple enough.

I believe you can, but I haven't found specific info yet. I also have a GQ-4X. FWIW the PROM with the different sounds is an:
MMI 6341-1J
8-bit
4k=512x8

I've worked on several early WMS SS games from the System 3-4 era and never really paid attention to the sounds. But now that I think about it, they did sound different. I particularly remember Disco Fever sounding different than the ROM 1 sounds. Disco Fever makes an impression for some reason.

#6 9 years ago

Update. I looked on the schematics for the jumper changes for the PROM vs. the ROM. I then built an adapter to let me read the PROM in my GQ-4X. Just some pretty simple wiring to swap around the pins for some of the address lines. I then put the PROM in my programmer, told it I had a 2716 EPROM installed, and let it read the PROM.

I then took the dumped data and opened it in a hex editor. I could see 512 bytes of zeros, 512 bytes of data, then 1024 bytes of zeros. This made sense because the PROM is 512 bytes and that's how much data I got.

I got rid of the zeros and copied and pasted the data 4x to fill up 2048 bytes so that it would fit on a 2716 EPROM. I then burned an EPROM, re-jumpered my sound board to use an EPROM and...it works!

The sounds are definitely different and not the "Defender" sounds of ROM1. I don't know if what I'm hearing is exactly correct, but it certainly sounds much more like what is heard on the videos I linked to above.

PM me if you want the ROM file. I wouldn't mind some other people checking me to see if it sounds right.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

You also have to consider Flash in your analysis as that game spanned both Sys4 and Sys6 but the sound board remained the same. It came shortly after Phoenix and before Stellar Wars. And to my untrained ear, it sounds a lot like your Tri-Zone video above (which came right after Stellar Wars).

It seems to me what you're suggesting is that the 2716 image you've created isn't available anywhere else and that Williams/PPS never made it available, meaning there were 5 sound ROMs and not 4 (which I find hard to believe, but not impossible.)

Flash sounds like Tri Zone. I.e. "Defender" sounds, or SOUND1.

All I can tell you is if you use the widely available ROM1, program it to an EPROM, and put it in a Type I sound board, you don't get the sounds like are in the videos for System 3 and 4 games up through Phoenix. But if you use the data I just dumped from an original Phoenix PROM, it sounds like the videos. To me that means the data is different.

#11 9 years ago

Another update. My customer brought back the sound board that started all this. We did some testing. He has an early Type I board that was factory modified to work like a later Type I. barakandl has detailed this here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wms-type-1-v1-sound-board-upgrade-notes

Notes:
-I'm calling my version of the sound that I read from the Phoenix PROM SOUND0.
-The "Defender" sounds from Flash and later I'm calling SOUND1 as this is how there are identified when you download the game code from Planetary Pinball or IPDB.

The Tests:
-I have a later Type I board in Tri Zone. I put my SOUND0 EPROM with code that I read from the early PROM in my board and we listened to everything in Tri Zone. One thing I noticed is self test does not work with SOUND0. This is a known issue with the early Type I sound boards. Self test works on my Type I board when used with SOUND1.

-We then put his early Type I board in Tri Zone with the original PROM from his Phoenix. The sounds with his board with the original PROM sounded just like my game using the SOUND0 EPROM. Self test also did not work on his board when using SOUND0 or the PROM. It works when using SOUND1.

-My customer's Phoenix exhibits the same behavior as above when using his early Type I board and the original PROM vs. SOUND1. In other words, when you switch the ROMS, you switch the sound.

In summary:
-I have only game tested this with Phoenix and Tri Zone. I believe the earlier SOUND0 version applies to other System 3-4 games prior to Flash. (Contact, Disco Fever, World Cup, Pokerino?)
-If you swap the ROMS in the same board or between different types of boards, the different sounds follow the ROM.
-If you put SOUND1 in a System 3-4 (pre Flash) game you get "Defender" sounds.
-If you put SOUND0 in a System 3-4 (pre Flash) game get the correct sounds for that era of game.
-The sound board self test does not work for SOUND0. It works when using SOUND1. It does not matter which version of Type I board you have, self test does not work when using SOUND0.

Conclusions:
-The SOUND0 data I read from the early sound PROM is correct. It sounds the same and acts the same as the original PROM.
-The different sounds are not due to a board revision or a game difference.
-The different sounds are due to the code on the early PROMs being different than the code for SOUND1.
-The game in which the sound board is installed does not determine the sounds by how it is calling the sounds. The different sounds follow the different ROMS, not the game.
-The non-working self test is due to the ROM version not the board version. Self test does not work for SOUND0, it works for SOUND1 regardless of the board revision.

The big final conclusions:
-There is a different sound version for System 3-4 games prior to Flash.
-The sound ROM code in the downloads you get from Planetary Pinball and IPDB that contains SOUND1 for these earlier games is incorrect.

If anyone wants to test SOUND0 and try and verify this, I will be happy to provide the ROM data. PM me with your email address and I'll get it to you. If I'm wrong and you find things to be different, please post here and let us know what you find.

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