How in the world is JJP supposed to know what the end destination is for machines they ship to AU though? Obviously I get your frustration, but it seems pretty far outside of Jack's control if he's just trying to patch up the disaster on that continent as best he can.

I've never managed retail before, this Shadow translite project of mine is the only thing I've ever done to actually manage inventory, do customer service, shipping, etc. We're talking about 135 units to date, not exactly big numbers. But it's already had lots of stress just trying to make sure I'm taking care of people, or knowing that I have to make them wait for something. It's given me more sympathy for these big operations.

I'm just saying, if that's the case then maybe communicate it to people. Better to manage your own bad news than let people make up their own. One of the edges JJP has had over Stern is communication, don't lose it.

jack-train.jpg

Haha, Photoshop is my bread and butter, something silly like that only took a couple minutes.

I straight up do not believe that. Not when people who were repeatedly promised games by Xmas then get told their machine is going to be delayed "three to six months" instead in December. That's 600-1200 games later by that build schedule. Yeah, no. It doesn't add up.

Then why are people with 2011 orders being told there are months more of delays?

Problem is it has everything to do with it. People have been waiting three years. Enough with jerking them around.

I just straight up don't believe the "building 60 a week" line. That's 240 a month. Then someone is told their Xmas delivery that they were promised is being delayed by 3+ months? That's 720 or more games according to that math. What?

Just tell me, does that add up?

I don't think it's a grand conspiracy, it's probably simply that a component isn't available or is limited, and it's slowing things down. If that's the case then just tell people. Already Pinside is hyping Jack's "announcement" next week into something huge, which means people will probably end up being disappointed when it's not the second coming.

That's the problem when you don't communicate and control the narrative. Don't believe me? Just ask Metallica fans. I know for a fact that Lyman is close to being done with the code, but Stern refuses to just tell people that, and now people are pissed and some are even dumping their games.

That's a giant accusation supported by what? I'm guessing nothing.

There's a big difference between questioning building 60 a week and Jack is too broke to continue.

He's the WOZ owner I was referring to when I questioned the 60 a week claim, I just didn't want to use his name without asking him. But since he told the story, there you have it. How are we going from those estimates to Mar-Jun if they're pumping out 60 a week?

What would pasting an email prove? Anyone can type something up, that's not evidence. Either you believe a trusted and respected member of the community with an extensive collection spanning just about every manufacturer you can think of, including ones not in the US, or you think he's lying with an agenda.

That doesn't even make sense, bees make honey, they're not attracted to it. I'd always heard it was flies, not bees. But then I learned to trap fruit flies in my kitchen with vinegar (drop of dish soap to break the surface tension so they drown) and I decided that whole saying is bullshit.

Congrats, I used to spend Summers in Visalia, there's definitely nothing else better to do than play pinball there!

Pretty sure it's the squeaky fly gets the honey.

Given the crickets in this thread I'm kinda doubting it, aren't you?

I'm delighted to hear it. Given the track record and pace JJP has had up until this point you won't see me laying down any $50 bets that they'll make it within that 90 day window though. Be happy to be wrong, I want people to have their games.

I'm not even trolling when I say this, honest, but there isn't any of that discussion in this thread because JJP just simply isn't shipping games. LED boards, cabinets, whatever the issue is things have slowed to a slow trickle. If the games were popping out like mad like promised I doubt there'd be much else to say.

Did you laugh in the little bird's face, or wait until he flew away?

How do you change the flipper rubbers? Can you get it over the slippers or with them glued on do you have to pull them from the playfield and go from the bottom or what?

Since you're so far away from Nimblepin's.

This is true. If by sometimes you mean "daily and often".

Are they still shipping games with the pop bumper issue creating metal shards? Seems like it from a game that was delivered recently. If you're sitting around delayed for whatever reason, cabinets or LED boards or something, then maybe fix stuff like that. Find a better glue for the slippers too while you're at it, sucks when they fall off if the game is on location. Probably should have had posts and holes in the flippers along with the adhesive.

So in that recent photo thread of the JJP factory once again there are lots of lovely shots of the factory floor, but no freaking workers putting games together. I feel like every tour looks like this, does Jack purposefully pick down times for them maybe? Or ask people to get out of the way? It just seems weird that you could walk in while they're supposed to be getting these games out and not have people in the shots doing the work.

Genuinely curious, not trying to ask leading questions to stir up shit. We're past the 90ish days, shouldn't things be in scramble mode?

It's been that number to go for months. Seriously, I thought it was even lower than that, it's still nearly 300? WTF has the factory been doing? Remember 90ish days? Long past now? It's like we passed the deadline and the number of machines needed to be built has actually risen.

lol. I straight up don't believe that. Someone can bust out the "they have a contract with New Line" quote again, but I'm so glad I'm not on pre-order in this circus.

It's like every time you give Jack the benefit of the doubt it turns out he was lying again. It's worse to hear everything is fine when it isn't and shit is constantly not being done when it was supposed to be, just be honest and say things are slow or screwed so people can at least dial in their expectations.

There was a time when this thread was actually full of people getting games, however spread out and slowly, but instead of getting better it's getting worse. Doesn't that concern you if you're waiting?

All the jokes about people getting MMr before their WOZ order? About to not be a joke.

Of course, and thank you. Sorry if I seem hostile, it's just that man, enough with jerking people around already. I'm not a WOZ owner, I just get tired of seeing people getting hopeful and then disappointed over and over. I have friends who got their machines, and ones who bailed because they couldn't take it.

It's a cool game, this isn't about the game, it's about the company. Yes, it's hard to be a startup, but at a certain point you just have to say "okay, you're not handling this well". When you take people's money and make them promises then you need to man up and keep them or be honest about what's going on that's stopping you. That's my take at least.

I don't say any of this because I have ill will towards Jack personally, or want JJP to fail, because I don't. And maybe you can say I'm not owed anything because I have no skin in the game. But as a community it seems like a little honesty is the right move towards us.

If you're waiting, wouldn't you rather hear "sorry, I know we said 90 days, it's going to be more than 180, here's why, we hope you can be patient"? Instead of "soon soon soon" and it's never actually soon? It's like torturing a kid by constantly moving back the date for Xmas.

So I was curious, looked up when Jack said the original 90 days ish quote. That was 1/13. Quick calculation says 122 days. I guess you can decide how much "ish" includes, we're over 25% though.

What I don't know is how many were left to build at that time, not sure if we have that figure.

Now we do have a July (ish) end date, if you believe it. That means we're already looking at the 180 days I referenced above. Fine whatever, if it's true then I'll be glad everyone got their games. But taking twice as long as promised just feels to me like there's too much we're not being told. Is it just clearcoated cabinets again (man, so not worth it)? Or is this stuff that's going to affect Hobbit too and the whole thing is just scraping by?

Have we really hit the point where it's worth pointing out that JJP plans to still be open and in business in August?

I don't remember what I said, could be. I'm sure as hell glad I don't have a pre-ordered game not delivered yet, what a clusterf*** nightmare. I think everyone will get their WOZes though. I would't pre-order a Hobbit, for a huge multitude of reasons, amongst which are lack of confidence in delivery, timely at least if ever, but also because we haven't see the damn game and I don't pre-order on themes and wishes.

I personally believe the company isn't running well, I don't know why. Bad management, bad luck, tough supply chains, defective hardware, silly clear coated cabs, who knows exactly why. I also believe the investors have bailed, with any money they put in being the sum total of what they'll put out. Again, I don't know, just what I've heard from this source and that.

None of my business really, I just find all these pinheads being left hanging waiting for game after years and years personally frustrating. I'm empathetic to the situation, they're frustrated. I also like the Hobbit theme, I could be a customer, so I'm personally interested in the future of the situation from that perspective.

The issue though is that they "why" is kind of important for the "next time". I think we can all agree that if this is how Hobbit is built too that JJP is done. Any patience and understanding that came with doing the first game is going to evaporate if it turns into "this is just how we do business". People will bail and the company will collapse. I don't think that's pessimistic or unrealistic, that's reality.

I really hope that there are specific issues with WOZ that are causing these problems, that they've learned from them, and Hobbit will avoid them and roll off the line much more smoothly. It's just that without communication it's hard to see that. I'm not a WOZ buyer, but I still care because I'm pretty curious about Hobbit. If Jack thinks I'm prepaying and waiting for one for 3 years though ...

Here's hoping everyone gets their games soon.

You could drive over and visit Pat, he's not really all that far from where you are now.

I was told by someone who talked to JJP last weekend that they're in the last 100. Anyone else try verifying that?

Better yet, just ignore his posts. Or put him on ignore if you can't bring up the willpower. Not responding will go a long way towards stopping hijacking.

I can't wait until everyone in this thread has nothing more to wait for. Sure seems like it's around the corner finally.

Congrats to everyone getting their games. I saw a collector friend post his box the other day too, and I know he was way at the end of the queue. Guess the last days are finally here. Here's to hoping Hobbit rolls out 20x faster!

Sneak pic of the figure for those who can't wait:

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Hey, good for you. I think it sucks that people had to hang on for so long, there's no excuse, but at least you're happy in the end. That's what counts.

Really, really hoping Hobbit goes smoother. It could really be something big if they can solve that, the theme has a broader appeal amongst more hardcore collectors than WOZ I think.

$9000 + shipping (and possibly tax). Seriously? I had no idea these had run up that high. Crazy town.