Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think there has ever been any real evidence that JJP is in trouble financially. The contrast between the rumours thrown around on Pinside and the information one gets from JJP's website, Facebook page and the private owner's forum is pretty striking at times. It seems that some people on here have had personal grievances with Jack in the past, which may or may not be justified, but nevertheless has motivated these people to add to the misinformation which surrounds the company at present.

What we do know is that games are being built slower than expected. I guess many on here thought that JJP would quickly ramp up to match Stern's rate of production but, for whatever reason, that hasn't happened. They seem to be sending the games out in batches, with relatively long periods in between. From the pictures it is also clear that they have a relatively small number of workers, which, it appears, has not increased much over time.

Jack has, at times, explained that there have been delays with vendors and that their way of building games is different in that the work is outsourced to a much greater extent, with many more vendors involved.

Perhaps they have decided that this is the most efficient way to produce the games for the moment, to start small to avoid risk and ramp things up when the kinks are sorted out. Maybe they are training their workers to work different parts of the line so they are more flexible, they might have the majority of people assembling cabinets one week and playfields the next. I don't know, it would be good to get more of this kind of information from people who have visited the factory.

Whatever the case, the impression I get is that they are slowly plugging away at making the games. Jack has a lot of experience running large companies and has some very experienced people working for him. It seems reasonable to assume that they know what they are doing and a running the company as efficiently as possible.

Nobody at the top of a company in their right mind is going to say to the employees below them: "Hey, you know that open house you're planning? Go ahead and cancel it. We're having financial trouble and may not be around."

Edit: I don't know JJP's financial situation, but to try and read anything into an open house being scheduled is pretty far fetched IMO.

I thought you were the guy that said if you had skin in the game you would be nervous?

Stop! Slow funds slowing down games is not going out of business . He will be around. Could he use a kickstRt probably. But worse case Hobbit will be done enough at the end of the year to get things moving.

Nothing new here? just the same old speculating board warriors? that's what I thought

I don't remember what I said, could be. I'm sure as hell glad I don't have a pre-ordered game not delivered yet, what a clusterf*** nightmare. I think everyone will get their WOZes though. I would't pre-order a Hobbit, for a huge multitude of reasons, amongst which are lack of confidence in delivery, timely at least if ever, but also because we haven't see the damn game and I don't pre-order on themes and wishes.

I personally believe the company isn't running well, I don't know why. Bad management, bad luck, tough supply chains, defective hardware, silly clear coated cabs, who knows exactly why. I also believe the investors have bailed, with any money they put in being the sum total of what they'll put out. Again, I don't know, just what I've heard from this source and that.

None of my business really, I just find all these pinheads being left hanging waiting for game after years and years personally frustrating. I'm empathetic to the situation, they're frustrated. I also like the Hobbit theme, I could be a customer, so I'm personally interested in the future of the situation from that perspective.

Regarding the open house. I attended the Christmas party. It was super cool seeing where and how a real pinball machine was made. I didn't leave there with any negative impressions. Jack couldn't have been friendlier.
If your close enough to attend, I think it will change your impression of the company if you have bad vibes about them.
I drove from the Boston area and I honestly am glad I went.
Jack needs positive energy, hell, we all do.

What does that prove?

It could simply be he doesn't have a steady enough supply of parts, nor enough demand for WOZ, to train a staff and fully ramp up the factory right now. TH should hopefully start up quickly... there shouldn't be parts constraints, and it looks like there will be demand...

Demand? LOL!

There is no fluctuating demand for him to try to anticipate (at least not for the prepaid folks) - the games were prepaid for YEARS ago! That's a production planners DREAM scenario!

It would make more sense for raw material issues for new standard orders that come in after the prepaids, but not the LE's that were bought and paid for year(s) and advance.

If JJP was truly solvent, they could have paid for EVERY part they needed a year in advance....

Now, its a brand new design/company- and things like the light board design failures are reasonable causes for delay- but cabinets? Sorry, but that's either horribly poor planning or restricted cash flow.

I don't think comparing Jack with a serial killing rapist is really a constructive comment. Please take a little time to re-read what you are about to post next time, before hitting that "send post" button.

I should have used a better example, just saying, being friendly doesn't make him a great guy.

we need a new sub form ..... JJPclosed

sorry never mind

"Now, its a brand new design/company- and things like the light board design failures are reasonable causes for delay- but cabinets? Sorry, but that's either horribly poor planning or restricted cash flow."

Do you really think those are the ONLY two possibilities that could cause a delay in the cabinets being delivered?

I find it funny when people make such definitive speculations, as if they know all the inner workings of the company.

If I used my imagination, I'm sure I could make up any number of reasons in addition to the two you stated, all equally valid. Just one, off the top of my head, would be that they can't store 1000 cabinets in advance, so they need to be staged. Perhaps the cabinet maker ran into difficulties delaying the delivery of one or more batches of cabinets.

Supply chain issues happen to companies all of the time. Companies that are well established. I am sure Boeing would have been glad to "pay" for every part it needed to get their last plane off of the ground, but it wasn't that simple. Manufacturers rely on their vendors. Sometimes you can't buy yourself out of a supply chain problem.

whats all the thumbs down for?? Take it wrong? It was meant as every JJP thread is usually closed by moderators!

See now that is where we could get creative. We should have rules though, or better yet, a structure. Must have to do with 1)mice AND 2)baseball. Something along those lines. "We would have had 50 more delivered, but a roving gang of construction site vandals broke in and used various parts for a makeshift baseball game. They were mice."

See now that is where we could get creative. We should have rules though, or better yet, a structure. Must have to do with 1)mice AND 2)baseball. Something along those lines. "We would have had 50 more delivered, but a roving gang of construction site vandals broke in and used various parts for a makeshift baseball game. They were mice."

Good, let me adjust my previous reason:

"Perhaps the cabinet maker ran into difficulties due to the sudden high demand for baseball bats causing a shortage of wood. Evidently in response to an extreme lack of food, millions of mice started using baseball bats as an alternative food source. Hence the delay in the delivery of one or more batches of cabinets."

Well, either you don't know or forgot that a pinsider who knows the cabinet maker shared some insight.

Sounds like a whole lot of pass the buck to me.

We care what it sounds like to you.

My machine shipped yesterday... Will arrive in SC tomorrow.
I visites the factory on monday. People are working and assembling machines.
Have patience guys... It will happen !

Congrats! My wife and kids ask me regularly when we'll be that lucky. Love that there is work going on, sometimes I read too much and think the worst.

If you wouldn't mind: LE or Standard, Invoice # , & Build Date?

That is kick ass!

Did you take pictures of the workers building machines?

That would silence many of the naysayers.

nice! very positive news for those waiting.

Reminds me of a scene from one of Trump's books. He was looking for financing to build an Atlantic City casino. He needed the dough, badly and wanted to impress the lender consortium. They wanted to see the site. Ooops! It was a big vacant lot! So, he hired like 100 big pieces of earth moving and grading equipment, just for the afternoon, to go to the site, and start digging and moving dirt around. . Didn't matter what or where, just so long as there was noise and exhaust and asses and elbows everywhere to give the illusion of bigtime progress being made.

He got the loan.

Did I read back a couple pages or so that 75th aniversarys are being produced and shipped? Hmm

No, just the typical rumor mill.

To the best of my knowledge I heard they produced two or three of them to market the concept. So what you are referring to is incorrect. I have not heard of anyone getting one of these in the general marketplace. If I am wrong, please correct me folks. I would really love to put this damn rumor to rest. And no, making several of them does not constitute bypassing the commitments on the LE's. Those are clearly in an R & D phase to test the market. Sounds like there was some traction and people committed to them. To be delivered after the other WoZ pre-orders. End of story.

Two or three.. Hah . More than that! Most of us know what's up.

hhhmmmm, who here has one then? I would be stunned if this forum wouldn't be some of the first to jump on something like the RRWoZ. Maybe what I heard is wrong. But until I see pictures in basements (a bunch of different ones), or pictures of them on location, I will stay in the camp of they produced a few. There is no evidence to the contrary.

I would love for those with these machines to post that they have one....with a corresponding pic.

Really - please enlighten the rest of us - you jumped me before for calling bs to your previous post barking about ruby reds in the wild before the LE's ...... Do tell "what's up"

Tomorrow is my birthday! Hoping for the call

Guys why bother. Look at the name look at the Avatar and dont bite when you know its the same old people stirring up the caca. Turns every thread into the exact same outcome!

You might have more luck by taking the day off, driving to Jack's, parking in the loading dock and not leaving until he loads your B-Day WoZ into your vehicle!

Yeah please tell us "what's up?" Considering I do the powder and I know exactly how many were made? (I can count them on 1 hand). So please by all means tell us all what's up?

And that is EXACTLY why you ignore and move on!

This. stop feeding the trolls (although it's hard to resist sometimes)

Ok Alex so you say no more than 5 and you know where they are? Please tell us then.

I don't know where they are. I don't work the loading dock but I do know the count and excluding the original 2 demo units which were shipped around to shows using the non final color only handful more sets were done for distribs to showcase. Very recently in fact using the final color. I know buddy had one but that's the only one I know of and that was a few weeks ago.

So instead of trying to start some crap why not just say what you gotta say? Otherwise you're just taking out if you know where which is a common occurrence around here.

Why does he have to tell you where they are? He crushed your statement which was made to stir caca. If you know otherwise, why don't you make your statement and follow it up with facts?

This discussion is old and rehashed. There are some out there, we don't know where they came from or the particulars. Whatever. But at the end of the day, no one from JJP should be surprised at anything being complained of, conspired, theorized or suggested. In the absence of facts, people will begin to believe fictions. This all goes away if and when JJP puts up. Until then, it is petty to feign some outrage when the noise deafens the signal. It has been 3 damned years. Come on.

yep, some transparency would be nice, and it would definately go a long way for future business. no statements, or whatever, just raises doubts, anxiety and angst. keep your loyal customers in the mix, with updates , delays, etc or whatever it may be. they may not like it, but at least they are aware.

You lost me at "feign" but Google saved the day. Hwawonyu implies he knows what's up, my guess he feigned knowledge to enrage people waiting on WOZ preorders.

Maybe. There are Stories out there about RRs being sold. That is not breaking news. They appear not to be true production machines. But no one should be surprised, either, that anything can and will be sold right now to maintain cash flow. This isn't rocket surgery.

My friends are those people waiting. I am not trying to piss anyone off . Just called Boshie on that 2-3 comment. Folks have seen a few around. Like Alex said at least the first two and the five he mentioned.
Personally if they make some cash to move along games which would get my friend his game I would dance with joy.

Its been a train wreck of comments.....both sides taking shots.....3 years to get a 6500 dollar purchase for 275 people...I do not like the outlook for future games as demand for JJP product has decreased. The market prices have doubled over thwe past 6 years and the manufactorers have taken advantage of that. I just think they ran the well dry on pin funds and prices are going to continue to fall on all pins. Restored pins from the 90s will be the only pins imo to retain value.

end-is-near.jpg

That might be true if everyone collecting pins believed that the 90s Williams pins are the most fun. However that is not the case for many of us. But your point is true, in that newer pins typically drop in price as they age, level off, and some rise in value. Meh, lets just buy what we like to play and can afford to buy. Thats what I plan on doing.