Congrats, you will have the true LE version of Woz! You'll love it and so will your kids, it's only $$$ after all, "never meant to last" as Jimmy B. would say

Btw, no offense on the "uneducated" part, I meant for the masses......

Only about the shipping part

It's my understanding that if you switch from a LE to a ruby, you give up your LE place and wait until rr's go into production. That was last word. Maybe jack changed his mind.

i thought you could upgrade your ecle for the rr and keep your place in line...who would pay an extra fee to get put in the back of the line.

the OP in that thread updated it, his is an auth'd dist and the ruby red is just there to go in his show room / take to pin shows, etc etc.. so i think that settles it.

Sorry but but every LE original should be made at this point before anything else.
Making demo rubies for every distributor plus regular wozs keeps pushing off folks delivery.
Once my friends have their games and the others who paid so long ago core that monkey up!

it's all good, i know ur a good cat.

i thought the regular edition ones were just being made while they were waiting on the LE cabs, could be wrong tho, either way, we agree to disagree. at the very least 75th ruby read versions are not shipping out to those customers that ordered them yet.

I've waited this long - what's a few more years

I think that there are two issues. One is LE direct printed cabinets are not flowing to JJP fast enough. More than the one delay that was reported. Even if each additional delay is a day or a week that really messes with scheduled production. And it may not be the cabinets this week. Could be playfields or Green side rails and lock down bars, or Dorothy house mechanics that stop completion of any game.

Second and maybe more important is that the money for the LE's was paid a long time ago and likely gone (reason for the investors) A couple of regular games a week paid for with new money might be desperately needed to keep things going.

Jack has been running JJP like a ponzi scheme for several years the new investor is the best thing that could happen for all those who have given Jack money.

I think people should be very careful when drawing a parallel between JJP and a ponzi scheme. A ponzi scheme starts with the intent to defraud would be investors. There isn't a real product. Also, in most ponzi scheme models, the "investor" cannot get any of their money back. To call JJP a ponzi scheme could be bordering on slander.

JJP has never had the intent to defraud people. JJP has delivered hundreds of one of the best pinball machines ever built. And at any time, "investors" could and still can get all of their money back. JJP's issues have revolved around supply chain challenges. They are a brand new company with overaggressive milestone planning.

Jack took $6,500,000 up front three years ago for WOZ LE. He then kept taking preorders for the the standard WOZ then took more money for game two then came out with a second LE WOZ . to think all these people would see there games or money if out side money did not come in is naive.

from Facebook working the line so now you know who put the games together 525736_571756002887552_505111104_n.jpg

Great to see the faces and I even recognize four of them.

So while he is delivering he should stop selling? That is death 101 for a small business.

I cannot see how you can accurately comment on JJP without having access to their private books. Anything else is speculation. We don't know margins, free cash flow, debt structure, capital, etc...

What we do know is the guys pictured above (including Jack) have some of the best reputations in the industry. I don't think they were, or ever would be out to purposely defraud the pinball community. What I do think is they had very good intentions and missed deadlines because of it. Mainly due to supply chain issues. But here I go speculating. I am towards the end of the WoZLE "investors". I cannot wait to post that Jack has delivered. The product that JJP has created will help this hobby for decades to come. It is simply at a different level.

Just why do you think jack sold a piece of his company when pinball is doing better then it has in years

6 guys? Is that enough to run a factory?

Don't know. I don't have access to his books. But raising capital can be done for several reasons. The most common reason is to grow faster than one could without outside funding.

I agree with you, but "ek77" didn't say JJP was a ponzi scheme…he said, "Jack has been running JJP like a ponzi scheme". Subtle, but different.

I don't think crowdsourcing is for everyone and I'm sure many pinball enthusiasts were unaware of the ups/downs when bootstrapping a capital intensive business like pinball manufacturing. For example, it's totally possible that a company of this scope could have never actually produced a product!

.


Sorry, but frankly this photo is useless.

*EVERYONE* knows that the true measure of a pinball company's manufacturing capability is directly proportional to the number of microwave ovens they have in their employee break-room.

Without that critical info- all other conversations are moot.

Sure, haven't you ever taken the Stern tour?

All kidding aside, if you are only building a few games each week, 6 guys is plenty.

From what I can tell with my limited understanding of JJP.

Left to right..

1 - AC repair guy
2 - WOZ owner picking up his game
3 - Pizza delivery guy
4 - JJP employee (Steve)
5 - JJP Line worker
6 - JJP designer (Keith)
7 - JJP Owner (Jack)

No. The most common reason is to plug a cash flow hemorrhage in the absence of major expansion. The fact that these machines were paid for years in advance is the exact opposite of a cash flow problem. It is evidence of a financial crisis. Have we heard an announcement of a factory expansion? Has there been an announcement of a large investment in automation? No. What we have heard is an angel investor has bought into JJP and everything is "still" sailing smoothly along. Do the math.

So... anyone got a machine... in the last...80 or so post?

JSmith: of course not, because the thread's been derailed enough that posting on-topic things like that would be off-topic now. Pity, given that this was a useful thread for like 1000 posts.

Actually: that's not true. A local op (in NoCal) got his about two weeks and put it on location. I don't know the order date, but it was a standard no 86 or so

I just got word today that mine is being shipped

Finally, an on topic post that magnifys the light at the end of the tunnel! Congrads

Congrats! You are going to love it, what a game!

What invoice are we up to now?

Looking forward to this call. My girls are breathing down my neck to get a game "they like" in the house after I sold "their favorites"!

Wow, just wrong on so many levels. Almost like English is not the native language, or perhaps some educational differential we are unaware of. Lack of cash means cash flow problem. It's in your post if you just stretch a wee bit. Perhaps out loud will help - If you have no cash, you have a cash flow problem. I don't think that is the case with JJP, but that is a side point at best. The important thing here is a dictionary and some kind pinheads to help with defining cash flow problem. Oh, there really is no math problem here, it's more of an English problem

I find your definition of a cash flow problem completely in error.

A cash flow problem is defined as a shortage of cash while providing a good or service that will be paid for at a later time. Running out of money after a product or service has been prepaid is NOT a cashflow problem. Perhaps you should review the language you pretend to have mastered. I think you are experiencing both math and English problems.

Now, now, boys...no need to get snippy. What we seem to have here is a simple communication problem.

In my head I picture this:

Pinheads who have paid hard earned money just short of three years ago

Dancing around in undies in a circle made of pinvalls lit only by the computer monitor- doing call and response with themselves-

"What do we want?"
"What we paid for!"
"When do we want it?"
"NOW!"
"What'll we do?"
"Post on Pinside!"
"How long?"
"Till we have WOZ!"

Of course that's not really whats going on but I thought my mind picture was amusing enough to share.

Good Luck seriously- I'm having a longer wait on an Atari custom console... was supposed to be ready for the 7800 25th anniversary...(2011) here it is almost the 30th anniversary... no pictures no ship dates... *poof*

You forgot this all takes place in there mothers basement.

Sadsack, if there is a way for you to retract that post, I think you should go for it.

A cash flow problem doesn't need to have a good or service. It doesn't have to involve anything prepaid.

I can, however, find the correct and very succinct answer in your last sentence:

"RUNNING OUT OF MONEY after a product or service has been prepaid IS a CASHFLOW PROBLEM."

In other words, when you have more going out than coming in and you can't pay your bills.

I'll bet my JJP refund check on it.

I'm not to sure what my invoice date as it was so long ago and is packed away but I do know it was within a month or 2 of announcement when I signed up

Does the picture say "Company Photo". No...

No it does not panzer but the caption did say " from Facebook , who's working the line ".
In context that sure sounds like it .

Why are we even talking about that photo when it is dated 8/16/13?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=571756002887552&set=a.135825399813950.26301.100001594722681&type=1&theater

Facebook pinball sales photo says {working the line} with Larry Appice

You are completely wrong. You have a financial problem because your business was undercapitalized. It has nothing to do with cashflow.

Let me make it simple for you. The problem of running out of money on prepaid product demonstrates a lack of start-up capital. If it was a cashflow problem, it could be solved by getting product to market quicker and getting more favorable terms from vendors. This is obviously not the case when prepaid product is involved. Perhaps you are using a slang definition of the word because your comment flies in the face of any business definition of "cashflow problem". Either the business is suffering a shortage of start-up capital or the business is insolvent or unsustainable. There can be no cashflow problem if a product is prepaid.

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/cash-flow-problems-business-4916.html

Now PM me for the address to send your check to.

Obviously still short on ship dates ... too bad...

You are being way too tough on the guy. It's a cash flow problem when the inflows don't match the outflows. When delivery is months (years?) behind schedule, fixed costs per unit are higher than expected, screwing the whole business model on the pin, resulting in what you could very fairly call a "cash flow problem"... Calling Joe "completely wrong" just makes you sound like an overeager dope...

I can see where someone with absolutely no business experience would call me an overeager dope. Maybe you should have read the article I linked before attempting to defend the indefensible. In fact, not understanding how joe is wrong could actually be the greatest risk to the business if you were running it.

In any prepaid business model, a shortage of cash indicates something completely different than a cash flow problem. To describe it as such is simply wishful thinking.

Can someone PM me when there is a post about someone getting the call?
TIA-
btw

SadSac, you're just being an ass that's all. Nobody cares how smart you think you are, you're certainly not proving anything to anyone with all you mindless banter and "articles". You can drum up proof for any point of view on any subject, simply by doing what you do for all your knowledge and google it. Or watch pop up videos long enough!!

Oh my... Look pal, I have a PhD in Business, chaired professorship at a leading research university, consult for a bunch of Fortune 500 companies. I've published work in much better places than that unheard of thing you reference. I didn't want to go there, but spare me, alright? Just be nicer to people when you're arguing about semantics - trivial arguments make you sound like a trivial person...