The AULE's were never meant to be red they were always green. They are the same as the EC except they don't have the wooden apron. I know that machines 52-83 shipped mid October and they all have the new boards so were built late September on, not sure about the earlier numbers I have never heard anything about them. They may have gone straight to the bumper people though. I don't know anything about 84+ except that Mr Pinball will not be getting any more until later next year sometime. I have one coming that I am just waiting for customs to release, hoping to have it today or tomorrow!

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I admire the patience of this group.

I still have the patience of a toddler. I won't even buy anything from amazon that doesn't have Prime 2-day shipping available.

Salute!

It pisses me off, and I haven't purchased a WOZ.

I can see why it would piss you off but think if you were one of the people who bought from the old distributor (bumper) who took money for games and then folded. There are threads on the whole bumper saga so that is some important context to have in mind.

It looks like games have been rolling off the assembly lines:

https://www.facebook.com/MrPinballAustralia

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How in the world is JJP supposed to know what the end destination is for machines they ship to AU though? Obviously I get your frustration, but it seems pretty far outside of Jack's control if he's just trying to patch up the disaster on that continent as best he can.

I've never managed retail before, this Shadow translite project of mine is the only thing I've ever done to actually manage inventory, do customer service, shipping, etc. We're talking about 135 units to date, not exactly big numbers. But it's already had lots of stress just trying to make sure I'm taking care of people, or knowing that I have to make them wait for something. It's given me more sympathy for these big operations.

I think part of the challenge down here now is people will not buy unless the pin is here. Deposits will be a tough sell. Different market here now because of what bumper did.

That is pretty much the way people view it in the US now as well. Nobody wants their money tied up for 2-plus years along with a gaping hole in their gameroom.
On top of that, it is also becoming more likely that people wait for decent code and see if a game is good before buying.

Just played Star Trek LE. Wow. Just ordered it.

Actually pre-ordered when the announcement came out, then after waiting, cancelled after pics. Still worked out in the end. Done with the whole pre-order thing, don't have to have anything. If I miss out, so be it.

I let myself get burned by that one as well as lot of others. Metallica is a good game with great potential, but I would have rather had a different game in the gameroom while Stern was finishing their code. The only thing we can do to prevent this from continuing to happen is to stop buying stuff before it's finished. That said, I have a deposit in on MMr.

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I agree with what was said before, I am glad JJP is trying to make it right with the AUS buyers, but by making all those now they pushed others back. Lets say all the Bumper orders were before March/April 2011 and they have a reason to make them now in order they were sold. My question now is why not tell us about it? Like another said before, these getting made now is news to many and they have extras for sale?! Most of us have been waiting 2.5 years at this point, about twice as long as expected. I think a little info from JJP would have made this easier to swallow for me. Not speaking for others, but eight weeks ago I had a shot at before Christmas. Now there are machines turing up everywhere and we had no idea why and my expected wait is now 6-8 weeks. I feel like I have been hit with a truck.

I guess they may have not been making WOZ standards at the rate everybody expected, they have actually been building ECLEWOZ like Jack said. He just left off the AULE part.

CORRECT dankme
This is why not only myself but others are pissed, We have waited since 2011.
But Jack (JJP) does not think that it is a problem to build machines for his new Distributors ahead of US!

Also there is word that there will be another 20 plus machines arriving in Melbourne around Feb 2014 for the Bumper guys, Wonder who will miss out? 20 odd will not fit into 50 plus.
But I bet those who are close with old bumper will not miss out on theirs!

We should not even be waiting in line because of the Standards being made! We placed our orders first back in 2011, So we should receive ours first. I'm Sorry Jack! But you have really lost me as a customer.
If I ran my business like you do, I would not have any clients left. (Shame - as I wanted to believe in you)

P.s From memory (Bumper) were not even taking orders back in March/April 2011,
And a lot of them still have not payed full payments.

Decided to ad a post just to change the number of posts. I guess I'm superstitious

You do realise that your post is now number 666 for eternity?

Filling the AUS order could be going after new money coming in vs the people waiting that have already paid.

FIFO = First In First Out
A simple question on delivery time ( date) and order of fulfillment should have been clear and followed from the inception and followed until those orders were complete. I am amazed at the patience of those still waiting but I would have asked for a definite delivery date, waited, and either pick up the game or my refund check on that date. Games have been appearing at different outlets for sale and not at the door steps of the people that paid 1st and still waiting which does not seem fair.

Well gang, I can tell you first hand that talking to Jack does absolutely nothing to get your game faster.

...Was promised a machine "within two weeks" by Jack himself (a Feb 2011 order)
...Two weeks later, got an email saying the game should be shipping in 2 to 3 weeks. Hrm.
…Pinsiders were reporting that their March orders were shipping while I was still waiting on a Feb order. Doh!
…game finally shipped just over 5 weeks from the day Jack said "within 2 weeks"

On top of that, Jack promised a couple of "goodies" would be thrown in because he appreciated the patience. T-Shirt, Signed Backglass, and a "great price break on Hobbit" were among the items mentioned. When the game finally arrived, none of those things were with it. Seems like a lot of 'promise them anything to get them off the phone!' is going on.

Sorry for what you guys continue to go through.

I know a lot of people are frustrated over missed deadlines. Just look at what JJP and the staff did though. They created the most complex pinball machine ever for their first machine. They had to develop the platform, hardware, obtain vendors for parts, develop build processes, learn how to integrate LCD animations with a pinball machine, and probably thousands of over things we can't even think of. They could of likely developed a basic machine for $4k-$5k but that is not why people invested in JJP. People longed for the days of complex wide body pins with lots of toys in a time when games continued to get more simple and less and was being included with a new pinball machine.

Games are going out a bit slower then usual but they are going out. There are a lot of start-ups that talk a big game but never come out with a product. People have had money tied up in other start-up pins for nearly as long as WOZ with JJP with those companies still not producing machines. That's not the case with JJP.

I know that I bought someone's spot and got my game about a month ago so I haven't waited nearly as long as others. The only thing I can say is that this pin is the real deal and is worth waiting for. Just from waiting for nearly 4 months I was tempted at times to sell the spot I bought and get something else. After getting the game I'm glad I didn't as there simply isn't anything else like it out there. The build quality is top notch and nothing that I've seen in a pin before. The game is a blast to play with all of its toys and you can now really get a sense of just how deep the pin will be in terms of rules.

Finally, Keith and Ted have been cranking out the code for this game. I believe there's been nearly 20 updates since April and another big update is set to be released before Christmas. Without good code these machines are just expensive wooden boxes in my opinion and if I'm going to spend $7k-$8k I like knowing that a company is committed to completing a deep ruleset.

The wait is well worth it. However, the first time you hear Glinda say "The journey is the reward" do not attempt to break your machine, haha.

Sorry, but "Look at what JJP did" in terms of designing and building the game doesn't cut it as an excuse any more. At one time, yeah, that flew, but no more.

A delay in shipping can reasonably be excused. Waiting for parts, underestimating demand, manufacturing issues, software problems, whatever, I get that; it's kinda uncontrollable.

But the issue now is quite different, and it is 100% controllable.

Games are being made and shipped to people that ordered last month, while the people who sent JJP good money YEARS ago...you know, the people that trusted and believed in Jack...sit and wait.

And it pisses me off that Jack is bragging about a WOZ being in the "Smithsonian" while my game, ordered and paid for 19 months ago, is nowhere to be found. If he has the time and capacity to build games and send them to Washington of all places, he should find time to fill all the orders for which he has been paid, in the order in which they were paid.

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Well, he is making some standards along side ECLE. I think if JJP wants to exist as a profitable company that they have to produce some standards and sell them to stay afloat as it means new cash flow. Making machines for WB and the Smithsonian should also help with getting the word out about JJP and help them sell more pins. I think this whole thing is a lot more complex then what all of us are discussing here. Jack said on the Google board the other day that he wants nothing more then to get everyone their machines. It just seems like he can't please everyone all at once.

Is it possible to leave this as an order update thread to help with expectations? Seems that there is plenty of other thread options voice concern over the process and delays. Thanks.

Yes, your right. That is the best use of this thread and its nice to hear updates of latest games shipped.

What is the highest invoice order we have heard of shipping at this point?

Product = A+
Price = B (this could probably be debated, but the demand is there)
Technical Support = A+
Location = B (love that it is built in the US)
Staff = A
Setting Expectations Correctly and Communicate Accordingly = D

I think this sums it up. Others may have different/or harsher grading. I really think Jack got caught behind the 8 ball and over promised. So he was going to disappoint some group no matter what he did. I am in IT and my lord, if I had a dollar for every deadline that was missed. But in this case it all comes down to resetting expectations and communicating along the way.

But at any point, he would give people their money back. So what was the real harm? Maybe the $100 in interest you would have made during that time period? Let's face it. We all want this machine because it rocks!

For the record, I am waiting too. I have worked in small companies before and they don't always hit on all cylinders. To me, I would rather have this report card, than having a D or F in some other category.

I for one like what he is doing and think it has been great for the hobby. He just needs to dial back the expectations.

I can only hope he learns from his mistakes and pads his estimates in the future. That would solve a lot of his headaches.

OK, geez, I'm real sorry. My update is: the game was paid for 5/12 and it still isn't here.

Specifically: Invoice 4477, 05/15/2012, "Due Date" 09/25/2013

Invoice 2385 I'm heading first few weeks of January... For my three games

This is only partially about how he sets expectations, but I generally agree with you about that. The bigger and more relevant issue is about the decisions he is making today to his benefit and to the detriment of his customers who trusted him and who provided the financing for his company, for free.

It is like when you have waited in a line somewhere and work your way up to first and the phone rings and the clerk takes the phone call, takes care of that person, and then takes another call and takes care of that person, and then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, and then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, then the phone rings again and takes care of that person, until the phone stops ringing and only THEN it is your turn.

Are you ever going back to that store?

You're gonna be in for a long summer Joe! I'm 5/10/11 invoice #2369 with the original promised date of July, 2013 and no idea of "when". In mid November I was told there were still 200 games ahead of mine. I think Jack has certainly exceeded his expectations of how many customers he would piss off with this rollout.

Getting any customer confidence with Hobbit is going to be tough.

It's JJP's first pinball machine, the pin itself gets an A- subject to code updates.....

Assuming they get all the production completed and issues ironed out and everybody with pins in their house most will be forgotten. Look at what Stern does to people over and over again, with what used to be poor quality and now code BS all the time.

If the Hobbit is a great pin, people will still line up to buy it. It's frustrating as heck and I'd be really pissed if I didn't have my pin. "The wait is worth it" comments only go so far I know.

As for managing expectations and telling the truth, pinball people have a long way to go in those categories.

Yes, the bar was set pretty low for JJP to beat huh?

There have been parts availability issues. Especially since nearly nothing in this pin is off the shelf. To the person who said that's no longer the case is wrong. We on occasion do run into parts depending on what part and where in the assembly process it is.

On another note, code update soon. Full update and it's a huge content addition along with bug fixes from 1.23 (lighting wonkyness)

"Soon"

That's great news about the code update. Can't wait! JJP has been cranking out the code updates for WOZ.

I'm just saying, if that's the case then maybe communicate it to people. Better to manage your own bad news than let people make up their own. One of the edges JJP has had over Stern is communication, don't lose it.

I'm invoice 2351, ordered May 4, 2011. Haven't gotten 'the call' but I'm still looking forward to the game.

Just a matter of time, when JJP gets the kinks ironed out, it's gonna be awesome, and yes, accurate communication is everything!

I'm invoice 2339, April 29th, 2011. Waiting for the call.

Invoice # 2854 5/30/12
Jen said August 2012 when ordered, In August, was told December, fast forward almost a year, was promised this December by Jack himself, however, as people who ordered a YEAR before me still don't have theirs, I think hoping to get it by Christmas is not too realistic.
Journey worth the reward my ass.

Same happened to me the one time I talked to Jack, he promised to send me out a couple of signed flyers to frame, said he'd get them right out last September...not here yet. Sent him AND Jen a reminder email and neither was answered.

Seems like JJP is going out of their way to destroy any remaining customer faith.

Why would you want signed flyers to frame? Jack thinks his signature is that special to his customers he can just quiet people down with signed flyers. Does he think hes babe ruth?
" Your $7500 game is two years late but I'll send you a signed flyer to shut you up."

All of this is disappointing. I have no skin in the game with WOZ, but love The Hobbit theme. I hope JJP works all of this out, for all of the ones that have been waiting and for all of the potential buyers like me.

The parts availability issues don't seem to be affecting JJPs ability to build games to send to the Smithsonian, or to Australia, or to send WOZ's to numerous distributors. Or, are the parts that have availability issues just the ones that go in ECLE's for people that paid for their games years ago?

I cannot speak for anybody else but I will never forget. That goes for the good and bad.

Stern has improved, but look at my collection, I have not bought into their stuff either. I have been thinking I like Ironman and if the price is right will get one. JJP pricing has actually pushed me to consider Stern stuff more.

NIB prices have put me out, no going to happen for me. I have the money but I have three airplanes that are less expensive to operate than pins now. I enjoy them planes just as much so I am out of new pins. Anything over $4500 is above the money I am willing to spend on these toys. I am going to get some of my old cars back, they are fun and pin prices are silly IMO. I have enough pins now.

251X

That is what I am saying, invoice "251X" ordered June 30, invoice July 1, 11 and still waiting, was told last week late Jan 2014 at best. But the AULE machines are done. Anybody wonder why it got so quite about that entire deal? I am convinced that has a lot to do with many of us waiting. Not really sure because we are not getting any real info. "soon" is not a valid answer if that is all we hear everyday for weeks.

You all know I have always defended JJP because their info added up, it is not adding up right now.

Its reasonable to set a date to : A) Get your game or B) Get your money back.

I think people waiting have given an ample amount of time but the appearance of the AUS games is interesting and salt in an old wound. Did someone think the delivery would not make it to a forum?

Parts availlable now on Ebay, but you can't get them from JJP, because they "need them to build our games".

ebay.com link: Wizard of Oz Pinball Munchkin Hut Base pinball part 32 0003 00

ebay.com link: State Fair Wizard of Oz Pinball Piece New

ebay.com link: Wizard Of Oz Pinball Part 32 001 00 NEW

ebay.com link: Wizard of Oz Pinball Munchkin Hut Roof Piece 32 0003 01

ebay.com link: Wizard of Oz Pinball Tree signed by Jersey Jack

ebay.com link: Wizard of Oz 75th Anniversary Pinball Witches Hat New

ebay.com link: Wizard of Oz Pinball Red Ruby Slippers L R New

ebay.com link: Wizard of Oz Pinball Tree Original C 32 0007 00

That's interesting.

Those parts are not being sold by JJP or Pinballsales and are just single items....Someone could of gotten those parts months ago, stripped their own game, received a populated playfield due to some issue, etc. It could be a number of things and doesn't represent some JJP parts conspiracy...lol.