You prob got a switch outa adjustment.
find the ball count advance coil on the schematic, and follow it backwards to the first switch you find, and tighten the switch stack, clean/adjust the switch. do this for all the switches in that line, and you shud be able to restore the function.

Hi Mike
You do not write about "Bonus Ladder is counted down at End-of-Ball".
ipdb has a schema for "Faces": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=806 -> use 400% -> click several times onto "+" -> it gets larger and larger.

Maybe we are lucky - it is just the "Ball-Index-Relay" NOT pulling at "End of Ball-1" (?)
Look at schema-C-6: A "Switch on the Outhole-Relay" and a "Switch on Extraball-Relay" and a "Switch on Ball-Index-Relay". If one or two or three of these switches are open: NO Step-up on Ball-Count-Unit, NO step-up on Player-Unit.
The Outhole-Relay MUST pull and CLOSE its switch.
The Extraball-Relay is NOT allowed to pull - its switch MUST be closed.
The Ball-Index-Relay MUST pull and CLOSE its switch.

If either one of the switches is misadjusted / contact-points dirty-oxidated / a wire has broken-off a solder-lug: No current can flow -> NO action on Ball-Count-Unit / NO action on Player-Unit.
Please have a look at these relays - have a look at ALL switches on these relays.
Greetings Rolf

Rats, got busy with life last nite, and forgot bout the schematic.
Sorry, will look tonite.

Hi mstire
fine - You did a lot of work - switches are clean - but one is not closing / not opening , it needs adjustment.
Whenever a couple of things must be done: The Score-Motor must help and do these things.
Example "Outhole": You loose a ball -> it rolls into the Outhole -> it depresses a "wireform / stud" -> the Outhole-SWITCH closes (and stay closed as long the ball is in the Outhole) -> the Outhole-RELAY is activated (and closes a "Self-Hold-Switch") -> the Outhole-RELAY then calls the Score-Motor for help -> the Score-Motor does a lot of things -> "and finally - we now should kick the ball over to the shooter lane" -> a Switch on the Score-Motor closes and through this switch AND a "Switch closed on still pulling Outhole-RELAY": The "Ball-Release-COIL" does fire -> the ball is kicked over, leaves the Outhole, therefore the Outhole-SWITCH opens -> the Score-Motor turns the "last couple of degrees in turning" and opens the Self-Hold-Switch of the Outhole-RELAY --- finished.

Your Eject-Hole does work the same way. I show a snippet of (ipdb-schema) "Liberty Bell": http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1436 - it has a "Top Eject Hole and therefore a Top Eject SWITCH and a Top Eject RELAY and a Top Eject COIL". (((The pin has two more Eject Holes etc.)

In the snippet I marked RED: the activating of the Top-Eject-RELAY. After a long time the "Kickout" should happen: GREEN shows the "Switch on Top-Eject-RELAY (MUST be cleen and closed, wires soldered-on), "Switch on Score-Motor () and the firing COIL (). (((I also show the returning line -> "R-BR at C-2" -> one more "Switch on Score-Motor involved".

So You should study the "list of Relays / Coils used" -> find so called "...EJECT-RELAY, ...EJECT-COIL" -> look in the schema / wiring AND Manual (drawing of the RELAY -> which Switches on the relay ???) -> check that (ALSO: ...Eject-SWITCH, marked RED).

Maybe You want to show part of the schema ? Look at Dealers Choice: http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=649 -> somebody has taken pictures (JPG-Format) and we can see the schema. Maybe You have a camera or You have a scanner (to produce PDF's) -> You show "interesting parts of Your schema" (?).
Greetings Rolf.

xLiberty-Bell-Eject_(resized).jpg

Hi mstire
a nice snippet of schema ! YES, the "Switch*** on Hole-Relay, wire-Yellow soldered-on, wire-White-Blue soldered-on" this switch is in focus.
Your description in post-10 says: Ball rolls into "Hole", depress and close "Hole-Switch" -> Hole-Relay pulls (and let the Score-Motor run). when turning further -> Score-Motor does / should close SCM-5A -> because Switch*** is / should-be closed -> "Hole-Eject-COIL (should) fire(s).
BE CAUTIOUS: start a game and let the ball plunge into "Hole" -> Score-Motor starts turning (and bonus is added) - turning ... NOW hold the "tip of a screwdriver at the two blades of the Switch***" - You make a "Micro-Jumper of this Switch***" - Question: does the COIL fires ? Please report.

Your "green box": I read "An arrow is pointing to whatever at C-18". So look around at C-18 and You will see "an arrow is pointing to whatever at ?-?? (location of Your green box)".
10% chance: There is something that wants to influence our "Hole / Hole EJECT".
45% chance: There is the bonus stepping up (for our "Hole-Feature").
45% chance: There iis a completely other / unrelated feature that simply wants to use the "opening of SCM-Ind-B" for its purposes (ending its feature).

Maybe we want / must use a jumper-Wire to (force-) feeding the "Eject-COIL".
Greetings Rolf

Hi mstire
You show a nice snippet of schema in post-14. It is wrong for the question "What is shown at C-18 ?" (The arrow points to C-18 - NOT TO C-1B).
Look at my JPG, on top I have marked (rosa) the range / area "this is "2". I also have marked (rosa) the area "D-2" / "2-D". For the question "What is shown at C-18 ?" You must show "C-18".

(First: read all) Jumpering the "Hole-EJECT-COIL" - force that coil to fire: See my "encircled (yellow) Solder-Lug on the transformer ? This is the end of the connecting line 24VAC back to the transformer - this is also the end of the connecting line 6VAC back to the transformer. so usually at this Lug TWO thick Yellow wires are soldered-on. Can You see that lug in Your pin ? 100% sure ?
If not: report / do NO tests.
OK, You see the "Lug-Yellow on transformer". Unplug the Main 110 VAC Power-Cord. Clip-on the gator-clip of a Jumper-Wire at the "COIL Hole EJECT, side Wire-color-yellow". lead the Jumper-Wire around relays and such and lay the other end / gator clip NEAR Transformer-Lug-Yellow (NOT touching anything).
Plug-in, start a game - make some points - NOW hold the Jumper-Wire at the insulation and tip the blank Gator-Clip onto "Transformer-Solder-Lug-Yellow" -> The Coil should fire (as long as You hold the gator-clip onto the Lug). You are doing "Test-brown-yellow-1".

If the coil does NOT fire -> "Power-Jumper***".
The Coil does fire - > Unplug the Main Power-Line and prepare "test-brown-yellow-2" - clip-on at "Normally-Open-Switch on Hole-RELAY" and do the same test. (We are asking the question: Is there connection "Eject-COIL <-> Switch on Hole-RELAY".

"Test-brown-yellow-3" does test "is the switch GOOD ?) - so for testing You (or a friend) must activate "Hole-RELAY" - pushing onto the armature / anchor-plate of the relay OR "put the ball in the Eject-Hole".

"Test-brown-yellow-4" does test the connecting wire to "Score-Motor-Switch-5A" (You also need the help of Your friend, armature of relay).

"Test-brown-yellow-5" does test the SCM-5A. You need the help of Your friend AND the Score-Motor MUST turn. This test also tests the connection to Transformer-Solder-Lug-YELLOW.

"Test-4 and -5" might be difficult to prepare - not much room to clip-on the gator-clip. Want to "opposite-clip-on" ?: You have the Jumper-Wire clipped-on at Transformer-Lug-Yellow (permanent) and You carefully push (testing) the other gator-clip at the Score-Motor-Lugs - holding the clip and carefully moving the clip might be easyer the "clip-on" (?).
If (if) You cannot do tests -4 and -5: Report - I then write about "Sneaking-in a "Male-female" plug*** into the "wire to SCM-Solder-Lug".
plug***: K-Mart and such -> Automotive Departement -> Car-Electrics -> plugs to squeeeeze for mounting a wire -> cut the wire in the pin and sneak-in such a K-Mart-Plug -> clip-on the Jumper-Wire-Gator-Clip ON the K-Mart-Plug (rude - but it works).

"Power-Jumper***": NEVER !!! clip-on a Jumper-Wire at my "encircled-RED" - ONLY use my "encircled-GREEN" - We WANT to have a FUSE in Our circuitry !!!
If the EJECT-COIL does not fire - "Test-brown-yellow-1" : Unplug the main power cord and ESTABLISH PERMANENT the Jumper-Wire-VIOLET - then plug-in, start a game and do Tests-1, -2, -3 , -4, -5.

Your "odd Thing" Do You mean "HOLE-Relay" ? Do you mean an RELAY called "HOLD (DDDDD) Relay" ?
IF (if, if) You use your finger "imaginary ball" in / at the Playfield-Hole -> You take away the finger -> You simulate "ball is kicked-out" -> does the Hole-relay quits pulling ?

Please "freshen-up" post-14, this (my post-16) is long - dealing "Jumper-Wiring theory and praxis" - lets discuss "real" problems on "posts to come".
Greetings Rolf

001-Sonic-Butterfly-Total_(resized).jpg

Hi Mike
no problem - the pin looks good (I have never seen one) - I wonder how it has came over to the USA (beeing a spanish pin) ...

You report nice results.
When imitating with your finger - ball is in the Eject-Hole and it is kicked-out (You take Your finger away): The Hole-Relay stays active for a short wile - then the Score-Motor ends the pulling - exactly what should happen.
Test-1 - You showed: We do NOT need the "Power-Jumper" - the connection on the power-side is good.
(Also) Test-1 - You showed: The Eject-coil is good - it fires on command.
Test-2 - You showed: The connecting wire is good "Eject-Coil <-> Switch on Hole-Relay"
Test-3 - You showed: The "PULLING HOLE-RELAY really / securely CLOSES its switch. AND: doing test-3 You do not need to simulate with Your finger - You can put the ball in the Eject-Hole (wait till the Score-Motor runs) -> Test-3-jumpering -> ball is kicked-out of the Eject-Hole -> feature ends "normal / good".
Do Test-4 again - You put the ball in the Eject-Hole (wait till the Score-Motor runs) -> Test-4-jumpering --- NOW: If the ball is NOT kicked-out: The connecting wire is bad / wire broken-off - maybe a Jones-Plug in-between is oxidated.
... Test-4 ... The ball IS KICKED OUT: Do test-5.

We live in different time-zones - it is getting 24:00 / midnight - I go to sleep - till tomorrow, Greetings Rolf

Hi Mike
I do not like the "thought / idea": The fault is caused by the "not closing Score-Motor-Switch-5A". I dislike "working on Score-Motor-Switches" - I do several tests and ONLY when I come to the conclusion "the fault IS THERE, 100% for sure" - then I grumble and start working on that Score-Motor-Switch.

Lets hope: The screws (mounting the Switch-Stack on Wheel-5) are loose (a bit) -> take a screwdriver and carefully TRY to tighten the two screws. Maybe they are already thight - well ...
Maybe You can tighten the screws -> testing -> (hopefully) "fault has dissapeared ?

No luck - I still do not like to take the Switch-Stack away -> I do one more test (without taking the Switch-Stack away). I did it today in my Shangri-La what I do write now:

Theory first - look at the JPG: The Score-Motor runs, the Wheel-5 turns, at a given time the long actuator-blade plunges down into the "dent / valley" on the wheel - the actuator blade moves DOWN (violet arrow / violet block - the drawing in the schema is "faulty / not precise": the nylon rider is bigger then the original-drawing in the schema, the Nylon rides securely on the actuating blade).
The actuating blade moves down and therefore the "Yellow Blade" also moves down - it closes (it should close) with "Blue Blade".
The idea is: Mounting the "Red, U-form "string / lace / cord" so we can pull upwards the "Red-U" -> we move blade-blue !!!!! upwards and do connect blade-blue to blade-yellow.
I have taken a string and put it there - JUST AROUND BLADE-BLUE. I then startet the pin and a game - I pulled "Red-U" upwards -> I had action - my test works.

Please install "Red-U string" - start the pin and a game - THEN (pin idles) DO the jumpering on the Hole-Relay-Switch (see top of the JPG) - jumpering permanent "White-Blue <-> Yellow". As long as the Score-Motor does NOT turn: The Score-Motor-Switch-5A is open - the Eject-Coil does NOT fire.
(Have the jumper White-Blue <-> Yellow set on Hole-Relay-Switch (?)) -> NOW lift-up the "Red-U-strings -> therefore you close the SCM-5A-Switch -> DOES THE EJECT-COIL FIRE ?

Please report - we might want to "try to clean the SCM-5A" - we might have to disassemble ...

To end this post - the "mystery about C-18" - Thanks for the snippet - I see: The "Drop-Target-Reset-Relay DTRR" also uses the "Switch on Score-Motor-Index-B" - DTRR simply wants ITS FEATURE (ALSO) HANDLED - at times "Ball is for sure NOT in the Eject-Hole" - the manufacturer saved money - NOT mounting another switch "just for DTRR-feature".
Greetings Rolf

7Sonic-Butterfly-C-modif_(resized).jpg

Hi Mike
I point out - For that test "pulling Red-U upwards": You do NOT activate the "Hole feature" - with the jumpering "Switch on Hole-Relay" set: we cheat a bit --- simply start a game -> pin idles -> You set the jumpering -> You lift-up the "Red-U".
Greetings Rolf

Hi Mike
thanks for the flowers - well, so I do a bit "rebuke / dispraise / upbraid / darn" (whatever the correct translation is for "tadeln") ...
Look at Post-21, JPG -> (my talking about "violet / faulty drawing" - the looong actuator blade moves DOWN at the time "Score-Motor-Wheel-5" wants to do the action.
So, post-24, JPG - Your green actuator: Why did You TRY to LIFT it ?

Yes, the next step is "to adjust (move a bit upwards) Blade-W-BLU (bottom-most blade in the Switch-Stack at wheel-5".

I wrote: "Have done such a test (Red-U-Lace) in my Shangri-La" - you are interested in "How To".
I look in the schema for such a "Bottom-Switch" -> Score-Motor-4A -> My Shangri-La runs 100 % - I have problems clicking-on the gator-clip at Score-Motor-4-A -> I look in the schema -> a wire runs to "Coin-Unit" -> a good place for to clip-on. I took my "Steve Fury Testlight" - look here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reading-gottlieb-schematics , post-10 / post-12.
I clipped-on the other end of the Jumper-Wire "AT FUSE - having the fuse IN MY JUMPER-WIRING" -> started a game -> reset -> idle -> whenever I lift-up my "Red-U Lace": MY TESTLIGHT lights up.

Do You remember "Our Jumpering" going through the pin ? See "A", "B", "C", "D" here in the JPG ? - testing with Jumper-Wire(s) is good - SCHEMA IS NEEDED.

Please write about Your Score-Motor-Switch. Greetings Rolf

00shangri-La2_(resized).jpg

00Jumper-JPG1_(resized).jpg

Hi Mike
good news and bad news - I must ask to be 100% sure (good news).
You can start a 1-player game and play through the balls 1 -> 2 -> 3 -> 4 -> 5 -> Game-Over (?)
You can start a 2-player game and play through the balls and players -> -> -> Game-Over (?)
You can start a 3-player game ... (?) You can start a 4-player game (?). Please write about.

Bad news - I must ask - IS IT ONLY the "Eject-Hole feature NOT working" ?
Means, here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=410&picno=51993&zoom=1 on the bottom: You loose a ball and Bonus is collected ? THIS WORKS ?
ONLY "up on the playfield, to the left" - the "EJECT hole" does NOT work ?

If the "written above" is true - the read-on.

Do You a have a nice description in the manual "Eject hole" - which relays / units are involved, the sequence (including Score-Motor-Switches) ?

The ipdb-picture tells me - the ball lands here and
A) ONE bonus is stepped-up on the Bonus-Ladder and 1000 points are given to the Score-Reels.
IF (if) only ONE light there is ligted: You get A) ONCE.
IF (if) exactly TWO lights are ligted: You get A) TWO TIMES.
IF (if) exactly THREE lights are ligted: You get A) THREE TIMES.
IF (if) exactly FOUR lights are ligted: You get A) FOUR TIMES.
IF (if) all five lights are ligted: You get ??? - I cannot read - maybe You get 5 Bonus PLUS 10'000 Points - Maybe You get ONLY 10'000 Points, but no Bonus ?)

B-1) ONLY !!! ONE bonus is stepped-up on the Bonus-Ladder and You are given 1000 points for every light "lightened-up" - IF THERE ARE 1 OR 2 OR 3 OR 4 lights "lighted up".
B-2) ONLY !!! ONE bonus is stepped-up on the Bonus-Ladder and You are given 10'000 points for ALL 5 lights "lightened-up".

I DO NOT READ ON THE PLAYFIELD ABOUT: Bonus is STEPPED DOWN !!! I think You are guessing wrong - I believe: Bonus is given when the ball leaves the playfield (Outhole).

I believe: You have a "modern (nice and friendly) pin: EVERY BALL starts with "ONE Bonus is (already) given". If not: I would have a problem "understanding the schema" ...
Look post-18, snippet of schema (amost at bottom): The "Bonus-Unit-Step-UPUP COIL" fires when the "Advance-Bonus-Relay" pulls. The "UPUP-Coila" also fires when "Score-Motor-Switch-2B" is closed AND the Outhole-Relay pulls - to me: changing to next player / next ball. This my theory is supported by: And then the "Ball-Release Coil" fires immediately afterwards (throug closing of SCM-4B) - we could call this coil also "Outhole-Coil" - Williams says "Ball Release Coil" so lets use this word.

Would you please show "JPG-snippets of schema" "Coil of Advance Bonus Relay and surrounding, switches activating" --- "Coil of 1000-Points-RELAY and surrounding, switches activating". Would you please show "PDF's of schema telling us about Advance-Bonus Relay".
Greetings Rolf

Hi Mike
Would you please show "PDF of MANUAL telling us about Advance-Bonus Relay".
Greetings Rolf

Hi Mike
Butterfly - a lovely straight-forward pin - I LIKE Williams pins - and the Sonic is "Williams". OK, I like Gottliebs for the Drop-Down targets (my Far Out) - but I do very much like ALL my Williams - especially to mention: Big Deal.

Thanks for Your answer. The problem "Sometimes a 1-player game starts on player-2 and will stay a 2-player game": Probably a minor problem - does it happen AFTER You have played a 2-player-game - wanting to play a 1-player game ?
Look at the Coin-Unit -> A spring is wound around the axis - all the time this spring wants to turn the Unit backwards to "Position-Zero = First / One Player". The Step-UP Coil when firing must be stronger than the tension in this spring - the step-up coil / plunger / mechanism is doing heavy work.
At start of a game -> RESET-side is activated -> wroammm -> Unit turns back. Much more tension if it has to step / turn 4->1 than 2->1 ...

Some people advice: Take apart the Unit and clean everything. You can try: Unhook the spring and tighten it (1/3 or 2/3 or 3/3, full round) - tighten it.
Maybe You are lucky - the Step-up side is strong enough to (still) satisfactory step-up - maybe the "setup-up side" no longer works (after tightening the returning spring) -> then for sure You must take apart the Unit and clean it ...

I want to study the new snippets of schema / manual - I will write about my "findings". Greetings Rolf

Hi Guys.
I have read some of your posts, not all, slow reader. i want to question the ball and player issue.
If everything is not happening in order, it is hard to single out a specific problem, as so much depends on other things lining up correctly first. the kick out problem seems to persist, I offer this, have you noticed any black rings around the switch contacts back side you are working with?
I have found some to be loose, and cause intermittent conduction even though they close well. I use an exacto knife with a new blade, and try to roll the contacts with the blade. you need really good light to see if one is loose, if so, it will definetly move. this causes headache.
The ball/player problem, My sonic super straight gets soft after playing for a while. I attribute this to poor switch contact, as things heat up, resistance goes up and coils kick weaker than they did at start of game.I like the light/continuity tests, however, a light and a meter will indicate continuity even if the contact head is only touching on one edge " like a bent or burned contact". this can be deceiving.
I prefer to test with a real coil, they require more current than a bulb, and can indicate a weak contact faster.
Rolf is a good troubleshooter, and will not lead you down the wrong path.
I hope you solve these issues quickly, and get to playin, not fixin, soon. Sonic pins are fun to play! i love my SS
one more thing, if your pin has half plastic, half metal step arms, consider replacing them with Williams all metal arms. the plastic ones give too much, and can cause a step to not move far enough to get to the next notch, even though the coil is firing.

Hi Mike
the pin drives You nuts - I do not like to work on Score-Motor-Switches (it is ALWAYS the one on the bottom of The Switch-Stack) - and when it comes to Gottliebs ...

I recall: The String-Test was working - manually closing Score-Motor-Switch-5A. So if You want to play a bit - You could do a "work-around" - mounting a "Door-Bell" like Push-Button in a Jumper-Wire -> everytime the ball lands in the Eject-Hole -> You push this Button - and play-on.

See my JPG - the green wires / lines. One side of the Jumper-Wire is clipped-on to "Transformer-YELLOW" - the other "other side or another Jumper-Wire) is clipped-on at the "Coil of Hole-Eject" (or at the "Switch on Eject-Relay". Loooong wires through the open Coin-Door and "in the open" You make connection when the ball rolls into the Eject-Hole. Not good - but You can play a bit.

Thanks for the snippets of schema. I studied and "cut together" to show what happens (Theory). I point out (99.99% sure) - If You can make (JPG: "V") this Score-Motor-Switch-5A "work correct": problem is solved - You can play.

OK - theory:
The ball rolls into the Eject-Hole and CLOSES SWITCH-A AND CLOSES SWITCH-B (there are TWO switches below the "Eject-Hole" - do BOTH open and close ?
The Score-Motor does not yet run - through "C" and "A" the Coil "D-Hole-RELAY" gets current ant pulls -> the relay establishes its "Self-Hold-Circuitry" through "E" and "F" (SCM not yet turning" - (((by the way: when "F" is faulty-always-closed (never opening) - even when the ball is kicked OUT: The relay would be "keep-on pulling" -> feature would not end).

The Hole-Relay ("D") starts pulling -> closes "G" and "H" and "I" -> (not shown in the JPG: The Score-Motor starts to run) -> through "J", "B", "I", "K this E.O.S.-Switch is closed), "L" a shot of electricity is fired -> "M-1000-Point-Relay fires (and gives the first 1000 points). ALSO through "J", "B", "H" -> "N-Advance Bonus Relay" fires and closes "O". ("O" and "P" are "Self-Hold-Circuitry").
Tha pulling "N-Advance Bonus Relay" closes "Q" -> a shot is fired -> "R-Bonus-Unit-Step-UP-Coil" fires - at end of travel the plunger opens "K" - 1000-Point ("M") relay opens.

The turning of Score-Motor fires through "S", "T", "U" three shots shortly one after the other - IF THE RELAYS (in the JPG: above) pull: a second / third / fourth action takes place ...

The Score-Motor turns and come to the end of the turn -> it closes "V !!!!! Score-Motor-Switch-5A" -> the "Hole-Eject-COIL (no letter marked) fires -> so the ball is kicked-out -> "A" and "B" open -> "End of Feature".

Mike, the above is "theory" (not really important) - I believe: If You can get "SCM-5A" work: The problem is solved. (8(I can construct some (theoretical) problems - we may look at AFTER SCM-5A works correct.
Greetings Rolf

aaa-BS-Info_(resized).jpg

The arms I refer to are on the step units, "and on the pops too, unfortunately" they give a little, and cause the units to studder. a half step instead of a full one. and fall back.

I wonder, was this ever resolved? I don't know how much help I may be but I'm also a Butterfly owner and have done quite a bit of work to mine.

Glad to hear it all worked out. I understand why the guy drove so far to get it. I happened into mine by chance (not working and free) but I don't think I could sell it. I believe it's a pretty rare machine on this side of the pond and I love the artwork on it.