(Topic ID: 213932)

Need help with No Fear... UPDATE: Screw it. Who wants to buy it?


By KYLEDM5

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 48 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by dozer1
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

Update:
I've had this for a few months. It worked perfect the first few days or so. I have no time or patience left for trying to figure this thing out. One of you more knowledgeable chaps can have it.

#2 1 year ago

How is the 12Volt at testpoint TP3 on the powerdriverboard ?

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from KYLEDM5:

I was just playing and it "tilted". It started crapping extra balls out and I turned it off. I turned it back on and it says, "slam tilt switch stuck closed".
Now, the really odd part is that none of the buttons on the coin door work. So, I can't add credits, adjust volume or go into tests.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Kyle

Look at the CPU,Take a look at the batteries or in that area.Any signs of corrision?When batteries leak the first attack is the menu buttons.

-1
#4 1 year ago
Quoted from zaza:

How is the 12Volt at testpoint TP3 on the powerdriverboard ?

I'll go check that in a bit.
Thanks!

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Look at the CPU,Take a look at the batteries or in that area.Any signs of corrision?When batteries leak the first attack is the menu buttons.

It's a new production CPU with NVRAM.

#6 1 year ago

Silly question. did you check the slam tilt switch? Make sure the contacts aren't touching, or the lugs that the wires get soldered to aren't touching. Maybe something fell on it and is causing the switch to read a closed contact.

-1
#7 1 year ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Silly question. did you check the slam tilt switch? Make sure the contacts aren't touching, or the lugs that the wires get soldered to aren't touching. Maybe something fell on it and is causing the switch to read a closed contact.

I checked both slam tilts. Both are kosher.

#8 1 year ago

Without seeing anything...I would suspect that column is shorted to ground, check driver transistor of that column in the switch matrix. I would certainly check a chip on the mpu that contains gates for the switches, I think it's ULN2803 located at U20 on wpc's.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from foureyedcharlie:

Without seeing anything...I would suspect that column is shorted to ground, check driver transistor of that column in the switch matrix. I would certainly check a chip on the mpu that contains gates for the switches, I think it's ULN2803 located at U20 on wpc's.

I just got done switching out the ULN2803. I now have use of my coin door buttons, but now it says, " Check fuses f115 and f116, j112 and opto 12v supply" when I turn the machine on.
When I go into test report, I get "L. Accel Sw. Stuck, C. Accel Sw. Stuck and R. Accel Sw. Stuck".

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from KYLEDM5:

I just got done switching out the ULN2803. I now have use of my coin door buttons, but now it says, " Check fuses f115 and f116, j112 and opto 12v supply" when I turn the machine on.
When I go into test report, I get "L. Accel Sw. Stuck, C. Accel Sw. Stuck and R. Accel Sw. Stuck".

Those might be the magnet optos in the back, if I recall correctly. Something is shorting out the fuses so I would do a thorough visual to see if there are any janky wires, lugs, etc. floating around. Check what each of those fuses relate to and go from there.

#11 1 year ago

The TP3 tests at 11.81.

Quoted from FatPanda:

Those might be the magnet optos in the back, if I recall correctly. Something is shorting out the fuses so I would do a thorough visual to see if there are any janky wires, lugs, etc. floating around. Check what each of those fuses relate to and go from there.

Checking out magnet optos now.

#12 1 year ago

Magnet optos' wires look good. I did the phone camera trick and the opto beams are on.

#13 1 year ago

The magnet optos are triggering errors because there is a problem with the 12v supply. Check here for some troubleshooting guidance: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Check_Fuses_F115_and_F116_Message

#14 1 year ago

Had this happen to one of my wpc games. I had a ramp connector seated wrong under the playfield. The game acted just like this.

Did you take anything apart or shop it?

4 weeks later
#15 1 year ago

After a month, I finally had some more time to look into this.

I still get "Check fuses f115 and f116, j112 and opto 12v supply" when I turn the machine on.
When I go into test report, I get "L. Accel Sw. Stuck, C. Accel Sw. Stuck and R. Accel Sw. Stuck".

I've tested power on the driver board and on the opto board. Those all seem to test fine.
I've tried a different CPU board and new opto board. Same crap.
All of the optos have power and are lit.
Everything in the game works except the optos.

#16 1 year ago

This game has made me realize I don't have the patience nor time to work on pinball machines.
It has soured me from wanting to buy anymore pins.

Sadly, I think I'm done with this hobby.

So, if anyone wants to buy this, PM me with an offer.
No shipping. Pickup in Sharon, PA 16146.

It's in great physical shape. The cab has the standard No Fear fade on one side, but the playfield is absolutely gorgeous.
It has full high-end LED's, minus a few stock flashers. Also has new super band rubbers for all the posts and slings.
I can send pictures if you're a serious buyer.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from KYLEDM5:

This game has made me realize I don't have the patience nor time to work on pinball machines.
It has soured me from wanting to buy anymore pins.
Sadly, I think I'm done with this hobby.
So, if anyone wants to buy this, PM me with an offer.
No shipping. Pickup in Sharon, PA 16146.
It's in great physical shape. The cab has the standard No Fear fade on one side, but the playfield is absolutely gorgeous.
It has full high-end LED's, minus a few stock flashers. Also has new super band rubbers for all the posts and slings.
I can send pictures if you're a serious buyer.

I've been there. Just walk away for awhile and let it set. If there is a good tech in your area see if they can make a housecall. It can be frustrating and infuriating but in the long run , you will work it out.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from msj2222:

I've been there. Just walk away for awhile and let it set.

I agree with this. Don't give up just yet. I had a pop bumper issue with my Earthshaker that drove me crazy because it didn't make sense to me. The great folks on Pinside guided me to fixing it in 2 days! And it was insanely simple! Lot of great knowledge and help here.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from KYLEDM5:

Everything in the game works except the optos.

ok,theres lm339 IC's on the opto board and on the CPU board.these IC's do go bad not all of them but some of them.If none of the optos are working it would mostly likely be a connection problem on the CPU or the opto board.power off the game and reseat the ribbon connector on the CPU(do this slowly so you dont miss a row of pins or bend them).Then on the opto board underneath the playfield reseat the connectors on the opto board.Try this and report back,patience is key trust me we all had issues when we got into this hobby and it can be frustrating but very rewarding when you get it fixed.we are here to help ok,give it a shot and post back..

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from Cycloneman:

ok,theres lm339 IC's on the opto board and on the CPU board.these IC's do go bad not all of them but some of them.If none of the optos are working it would mostly likely be a connection problem on the CPU or the opto board.power off the game and reseat the ribbon connector on the CPU(do this slowly so you dont miss a row of pins or bend them).Then on the opto board underneath the playfield reseat the connectors on the opto board.Try this and report back,patience is key trust me we all had issues when we got into this hobby and it can be frustrating but very rewarding when you get it fixed.we are here to help ok,give it a shot and post back..

Didn't help.

#21 1 year ago

ok,theres an small LED on the opto board is it flashing or staying lit solid?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from Cycloneman:

ok,theres an small LED on the opto board is it flashing or staying lit solid?

Solid.

#23 1 year ago

ok that means the opto board is working properly,the problem would be on the CPU board.one of the LM339 IC's or U20 on CPU.is U20 IC socketed on your board?

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from Cycloneman:

ok,theres an small LED on the opto board is it flashing or staying lit solid?

Quoted from Cycloneman:

ok that means the opto board is working properly,the problem would be on the CPU board.one of the LM339 IC's or U20 on CPU.is U20 IC socketed on your board?

Good man... good karma!

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from msj2222:

Good man... good karma!

Thank you i appreciate it buddy..

#26 1 year ago

Have you followed the troubleshooting advice I posted earlier? The error on start up sounds like a 12v supply issue which is a very simple circuit on the power driver board and is easy to troubleshoot if you follow the steps on Pinwiki.

#27 1 year ago
Quoted from arolden:

Have you followed the troubleshooting advice I posted earlier? The error on start up sounds like a 12v supply issue which is a very simple circuit on the power driver board and is easy to troubleshoot if you follow the steps on Pinwiki.

He's have problems with only the optos and it's leading to the lm339 on cpu,opto board is good

#28 1 year ago
Quoted from arolden:

Have you followed the troubleshooting advice I posted earlier? The error on start up sounds like a 12v supply issue which is a very simple circuit on the power driver board and is easy to troubleshoot if you follow the steps on Pinwiki.

you might want to fix your games first before you dive into this one

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from Cycloneman:

you might want to fix your games first before you dive into this one

Yep! I had a similar issue on a W?D which led me to some issues on the unregulated 12v which were the problem. That's why I'm suggesting it as OP doesn't appear to have gone down this path yet.

Quoted from Cycloneman:

He's have problems with only the optos and it's leading to the lm339 on cpu,opto board is good

He has already tried a new CPU board with no improvement.

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from arolden:

Have you followed the troubleshooting advice I posted earlier? The error on start up sounds like a 12v supply issue which is a very simple circuit on the power driver board and is easy to troubleshoot if you follow the steps on Pinwiki.

Yes, I ran a lot of those tests about a month ago. I didn't really get to do much since. About a week ago, I noticed the DMM was getting really inconsistent readings. I since have changed the DMM's battery and am retesting everything today. A nerdy friend of mine just tested both my original and new opto boards. He discovered a couple burned out resistors on both. They are R51 and R52. With this new knowledge, we suspect the opto boards were getting too much voltage.

On Pinwiki it says the LED7-TP1 is
"Normally lit. AC voltage is rectified to about 12VDC by BR5 and smoothed by C30 to provide unregulated 12VDC power. This 12VDC power is shown as "+12V Power" on the schematics. It is used to power motors, optos, and other game features that do not require a precise 12VDC. This power is fused by F116."

I tested the TP1 and got a hair over 15 volts.

Next, I'm going to take the power driver board out and retest BR5 and check out C30.

#31 1 year ago

Glad you're not giving up on it!

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

Glad you're not giving up on it!

Not yet at least.
I'll put what work into it I can over the next couple weeks. After that, I should have the free time to take it to the gun range and put it out of my misery.
I have a few guns on the list so far. Saiga 12 gauge, .50 BMG, S&W .500 mag and I may even break out my Browning 1919.
Fear not, I'll be sure to get video of it.

#33 1 year ago

If you let me fire the .50 BMG, I will personally fix this for you! I was in the Marines the last time I got to fire a .50 cal 34 years ago. Hell of a lot of fun.

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

If you let me fire the .50 BMG, I will personally fix this for you! I was in the Marines the last time I got to fire a .50 cal 34 years ago. Hell of a lot of fun.

That sure is one hell of an offer!

#35 1 year ago

I tested the bridge rectifiers again. They seem fine.
We did discover the voltage regulator at Q2 on the PD board was bad. Swapped that out and it tests fine now, but I still get a bit over 15 volts on TP1 and at the opto board.

#36 1 year ago

So, is 15.3ish too high to be getting at the TP1? I just tested the TP1 on my T2 and it was about 14.8.

#37 1 year ago

its a No Fear.. take it to the range.

#38 1 year ago

That voltage is unregulated so yes it may be higher than expected. 15 volts doesn't seem like it would cause these issues.

C30 could potentially be causing issues. If you have a way to measure capacitance, that would confirm. Otherwise you'll have to eliminate everything else first.

Have you eliminated issues with the J112, J116, J117, J118 connectors themselves? Check the connectors haven't lost their tension. You can rearrange J116-8 as these are keyed the same.

Otherwise, does everything work once you replace the resistors on the opto boards?

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from arolden:

That voltage is unregulated so yes it may be higher than expected. 15 volts doesn't seem like it would cause these issues.
C30 could potentially be causing issues. If you have a way to measure capacitance, that would confirm. Otherwise you'll have to eliminate everything else first.
Have you eliminated issues with the J112, J116, J117, J118 connectors themselves? Check the connectors haven't lost their tension. You can rearrange J116-8 as these are keyed the same.
Otherwise, does everything work once you replace the resistors on the opto boards?

Hopefully, I'll have a bit of free time tomorrow to recheck all the connectors. They seemed fine the last time I checked them.
I'm also hoping my buddy will have time tomorrow to replace the resistors on the opto board. I don't trust my soldering skills.

#40 1 year ago

THere's no shame in bailing on a game you just can't stand the sight of anymore. I've done it a few times.

Sometimes you've just put enough time in a problem game and you are ready to move on and reclaim space.

The next guy might figure out the issue in 20 minutes. Good for him.

#41 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

THere's no shame in bailing on a game you just can't stand the sight of anymore. I've done it a few times.

Sometimes you know half way through the first game.

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Sometimes you know half way through the first game.

This title is actually one that grew on me the more I played, the more I enjoyed

7 months later
#43 10 months ago

Well, I put it in the back room over half a year ago, haven't touched it since and lost any interest in it. At this point, I've forgotten most the crap I've tested and how to test. I have zero desire to relearn all this nerd lingo (rectifiers, transistors, etc.). I'm still thinking it just needs new optos in the back, by the magnets.

I'm in need of space in the room and just want this thing gone. I'll take some pics of it. If no one comes for it within a few days, I'll have to take the legs off, plastic wrap it and stick it in the corner to make room. At least it will be ready for transport.

The playfield is in utterly gorgeous condition. Has full LED's in the playfield and mostly LED's in the back box. New orange rubbers all around.
The cabinet has the typical No Fear fade on one side and typical minor dings.
I spent $2700 on the game, $300+ on a new CPU board and $100+ on a new opto control board.

The first person to show up with $2000 cash, gets it. PLUS, the $400+ worth of new boards (originals included too).
Located in Sharon, PA. Easy loading, no stairs.

#44 10 months ago

On sent

#45 10 months ago

Too bad this didn't work out for you. Sounds like a good deal for some nerd to tinker with.

#46 10 months ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Too bad this didn't work out for you. Sounds like a good deal for some nerd to tinker with.

I strongly concur. I'm just by no means a tech person. I still rock a flip phone even.
I've been waiting for my buddy who owns an arcade to help, but he's been way too busy with his 50+ pins.

#47 10 months ago

Sale pending. Buyer on his way.

I do want to thank all you guys for trying to help! Pinside is awesome!

#48 10 months ago
Quoted from KYLEDM5:

I still rock a flip phone even.

Me too, a tracfone. Still prefer landline when possible. Hope you get another pin someday that works out better for you.

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