(Topic ID: 209091)

Crazy behavior with replacement WPC89 driver board

By pindergast

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 25 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by zaza
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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pinled pdb.jpg
J113.jpg
#1 6 years ago

I could use some help figuring out this crazy behavior I'm having. Managed to buy a PinLED driver board and have had it act super strange in either of two pins (TZ or WHO). Specifically, columns with optos in them start to malfunction. On WHO, the MPF opto stopped responding completely. On TZ, the ball launcher opto and the rest of column 2 got stuck on, along with clock minute opto 0. When I put the original driver boards back in, everything works fine again.

I measured J116 and it came in at 14.1v which I guess is fine. The original boards are 13.8v. There's not a whole lot that the driver board does I can think of other than provide the voltage, so I'm confused as to what would cause a new driver to cause columns with optos in them to go haywire. Just to eliminate the MPU, I swapped those out and it made no difference. I would think that any problems with the switch matrix would show up using either driver board, but am open to trying whatever.

#2 6 years ago

I have heard this from a friend of mine with a TZ and a Dr Who and the PinLED board. It doesn’t sound like it’s compatible as he had the identical issue.

You should contact PinLED and see if they can help you.

Marc

#3 6 years ago

I have a PinLED board in my TZ, and haven't had an issue at all.(*)

Before we poke at it, though, need some clarification.

You mention optos, but then mention the 'ball launcher' and 'rest of column 2'. Column 2 has NO optos on it in TZ. The 'ball launcher' switch (27) is the shooter lane switch. The Autofire optos are in Column 7. So, which exactly is it? Optos (Cols 7 & 8), or Column 2?

#4 6 years ago

OK well if that's the case then it's something in addition to optos on TZ. So when the PinLED is installed on TZ, I get:

1. All of column 2 lights up when the coin door is closed
2. Clock 0 minutes (92) is stuck on
3. The auto-fire kicker constantly runs (while empty); that opto appears to be stuck on

Put the Williams board back in and all three symptoms go away.
So with that it's starting to look like both column2 and possibly row 2.

#5 6 years ago

I also did a continuity test on all pins of J205, none of them appear to be grounded out.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from pindergast:

OK well if that's the case then it's something in addition to optos on TZ. So when the PinLED is installed on TZ, I get:
1. All of column 2 lights up when the coin door is closed
2. Clock 0 minutes (92) is stuck on
3. The auto-fire kicker constantly runs (while empty); that opto appears to be stuck on
Put the Williams board back in and all three symptoms go away.
So with that it's starting to look like both column2 and possibly row 2.

Okay -
Can you grab a pick of the Switch Test (T.1) with both boards in?
It's very possible that with the higher +12v, the old optos (phototransistors) are starting to fail - letting too much current through to latch the BA339 on the column.

For the coin door - is it the coin door closed switch, or the physical door itself?

If you *disconnect* the ribbon cable going to the power driver board, and go into T1 (Switch Test), what happens?

(*) I forgot to clarify myself in my first post: I have one issue with my PinLED PDB board - it amplifies the LED ghosting/flickering. I had to use very, very conservative settings in my LedOCD & GIOCD boards to get them looking great.

#7 6 years ago

Can you check the 3 pins in red circle for a short - in any combination-
(Machine OFF and ribbon cable J113 unplugged.)

J113.jpgJ113.jpg

#8 6 years ago

I can install the board again a little later and report back on the T1 status with/without the ribbon cable... before I do, are there any measurements you need with the Williams driver in there that I can take first?

Re: coin door, its with the coin door switch.

Re: optos, it's entirely likely the optos in both games are original

I'm using all incandescent (except for a couple in the backbox) so I'm not worried about ghosting, but yeah I have heard the flickering is pretty bad.

#9 6 years ago

Just checked those pins on J113, no shorts

#10 6 years ago

If you like you can perform a little test with ribbon cable J113 still unplugged but with power 'ON'
Better unplug J102 (50+20Vac) as well on the right side of the powerdriver.

Go into switch test and look if there is any change in the matrix, also with coindoor closed.

#11 6 years ago

I figured what the heck, I'll test J113 on the PinLED in its box... pins 1 and 3 are shorted with nothing connected.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from pindergast:

pins on J113, no shorts

Quoted from pindergast:

pins 1 and 3 are shorted

So, sometimes it does short and sometimes it doesn't ?
Either way, that is not supposed to be a short.

check for excessive solder on J113 but also the optocouplers U7 and U8 ( top center on the powerdriver)

#13 6 years ago

Interesting- yeah, that's not right.

My memory is also poking me that someone else had this issue recently (last year or so?) and posted here - though my searching is leaving me hanging.

#14 6 years ago

Sorry, the first J113 test was the Williams board connected to TZ... that was fine (e.g. no external wiring was shorting anything, and the driver board is ok).

The second J113 test was the PinLED still in its box, connected to nothing... that one consistently shorts 1 & 3. I looked at the board and didn't see anything obvious; most of this looks like on-board component that I don't have the tools to do anything about anyway. I don't see any U slots on the PinLED, several ICs and the flipper relays. Happy to test whatever, but unless it turns out to be something simple I doubt I'd be able to service this board.

#15 6 years ago

Can you post some pics of that header. Front and back of the board

#16 6 years ago

header's fine on the outside, i'd have to desolder it to look underneath and see if anything is touching (and void my warranty)

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from pindergast:

I don't see any U slots on the PinLED

I don't know this board but i guess the optocouplers are in the red circle. Check for shorted legs here.

pinled pdb.jpgpinled pdb.jpg

Quoted from pindergast:

(and void my warranty)

Easy solution is to bend away pin J113-1 and install it in the TwilightZone.

#18 6 years ago

Don't I need that pin?

#19 6 years ago

Correct, WPC machines with a fliptronic board don't need pin 1, 3, 5 on J113

#20 6 years ago

Hmm it looks like the top opto coupler's outputs are shorted in both directions (its upside down so its the left side looking at the board in the proper orientation). I suppose it could be shorted elsewhere, hard to tell with it on the board.

#21 6 years ago

What is wrong with the original driver board?

#22 6 years ago

Bypassing pin 1 seems to have made everything work the way it should. Thanks for helping me track this down. A little surprising this passed bench testing but glad to have it resolved. Unfortunately, PinLED tells me they don't have any driver boards left. I'm not sure if they've stopped manufacturing them or if something else has happened to the company. This was apparently the back-of-the-shelf last one.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from pindergast:

Bypassing pin 1 seems to have made everything work the way it should. Thanks for helping me track this down. A little surprising this passed bench testing but glad to have it resolved. Unfortunately, PinLED tells me they don't have any driver boards left. I'm not sure if they've stopped manufacturing them or if something else has happened to the company. This was apparently the back-of-the-shelf last one.

Interesting, and good to know. Like I mentioned, I have one, but I got it back in '10 or '11. Back then, they were a lot more responsive to emails and were a lot more helpful. At some time their main site went down, to be store only. Replies to my inquiries have been very short and missing the point.

Sad, since my machine has their Power Driver board, DMD board, and Fliptronics board.

#24 6 years ago

BTW, in case anyone comes across this in searches in the future..

Back then, they actually posted the schematics of their boards. I have a copy of the WPC Power Driver, WPC Display Driver, and WPC Fliptronics board's schematics, if anyone needs them.

#25 6 years ago
Quoted from pindergast:

Bypassing pin 1 seems to have made everything work the way it should.

Nice,
In case you want to track down the cause and remove the short, you can bend this pin back.

Quoted from Coyote:

Back then, they actually posted the schematics of their boards. I have a copy of the WPC Power Driver, WPC Display Driver, and WPC Fliptronics board's schematics, if anyone needs them.

Good to know but in the rare case that I get this board on my desk, there is not so much to replace beside the headers and capacitors and maybe a mosfet

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