(Topic ID: 243783)

Need help with LOTR Ringwraith Flasher

By StrangeSubset1

4 years ago


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#1 4 years ago

Hi guys, hope someone will be able to help me.
I recently got a beautiful LOTR. Amazing shape and everything works except the Ringwraith Flasher. Previous owner had tried some repairs and failed on it. He switched out the Q29 transistor, but did not only do a bad soldering job (see below), but also used a TIP 102 rather than the correct TIP 122.
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Long story short, I though it would be an easy fix, right? Put in the correct transistor and ready to go.
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Well, as you can see below, here is the correct TIP 122 in place.....but still nothing.
Next step, go into test mode and see if in the flash test, there is any voltage coming through the J6 pin-5. Turns out, nothing. All other pins show the correct voltage spikes. So I guess I don't have to bother testing continuity on the wire harness, since I don't get anything on the J6.
I am a bit at a loss of where to go from here. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Replacement looks good!
Voltage doesn't come from this location, this is the side that provides the return from the lamp, this may be easier to test when not in flasher test as you would have a solid voltage here. with nothing here you either have a broken wire, bad socket, or burned out lamp.

Well, I guess I should have been more clear about how I tested. I connected my MultiMeter to pin 10 and pin 5, so I should have gotten a reading. I did get a reading on the other pins when I tested the associated flasher.
I had the harness off and tested directly at the pin, to make sure it is not wire related. Thus much thought, it needs to be something on the board. All resistors, diodes and the new transistor test fine though.
Almost looks like the is no signal coming to the transistor to open it, but I would not know how to test that.

#6 4 years ago

yeah, I already checked the schematics. Wasn't very promising...I already tested R29 and D212, all fine.
I was hoping there could be something else but the U4.
" ohm out pin 13 (5D) of U4 to pin 13 (5D) of U3" you lost me on this one. Can you let me know how to do this?
I'll definitely check the traces....will have to take the board out again.

Don't have either one of these: logic probe or oscilloscope

#7 4 years ago

Da@#$$.....looks like I have a mich bigger issue now. Something must have shorted. Q9 through Q32 are all dead.
Too late for tonight to check it all out....I guess I'll know what I spend my time on tomorrow.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Check your ribbon cable between the CPU and Power board, these are really easy to get off by a row, I've done it myself...more than once.

will check in a bit

Quoted from Pin_Guy:

AND your sword lock release works, then the input signal (data bit 5) at U4-13 is fine. With this knowledge and verification of all components and connections between U4-12 and J6-5 are good, then by the process of elimination U4 must be bad.

Well, it was working till last night..... I'll reset all cables in a bit and report back.
I also have a buddy coming over tomorrow to check the U4 with an oscilloscope. He is an electrical engineer (micro), and asked me for the model of the chip....after I gave to him he was all heels about the "flip flop" chip.....all Greek to me.

#11 4 years ago

One more question. BTW. my F7 was blown, have to pick up a new at fry's, but that explains why I am dead.
I found this diagram of the chip, but the pinout is different. How do I determine which pin is which?

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#14 4 years ago

yeah, figured that much, so the D5=14 per schematic does not match the LOTR schematics where 5D = 13...... So would I follow the numeric pin designation or the alphanumeric one?

#15 4 years ago

Update. Fuse F7 replaced. Obviously everything else back to normal. But now it is getting weirder. I have flipper brite back panel for the back box. Figured I'll disconnect it for now to make working and trouble shooting easier, since it ties into the J6. Connected the J6 flasher directly, and now my ringwraith is ALWAYS ON!?!?!?
Sword lock works perfectly fine.

#17 4 years ago

More strange things. I connect the back box lighting back, and the F7 fuse blows.....
might make sense though. Too much electricity flying through the LEDs if it is constant on. those flasher LEDs aren't build for it. The flasher bulb has high enough resistance. So now I need to find out why it is always on.

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Have you verified the ribbon cable is connected correctly?

Ribbon cable is perfectly set.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

So here is where all of the confusion lies. The 8-bit data lines themselves are labeled 0-7 but the octal flip flop labels them as D1-D8 and Q1-Q8. Dont get confused by this, just follow the schematics.

Continuety is all there. As I mentioned before, with the back box lighting disconnected, the ringwraith is now always on. Haven't checked the transistor again, almost seems like something caused it to be all open now. Weird. Will do some testing on the U5 with my buddy tomorrow.

#22 4 years ago

SOLVED....Thank you for all your guys help. Especially Pin_Guy to the rescue as always.
The final solution is actually quite hilarious.
To recap. Ringwraith flasher was dead. I saw that the transistor was the incorrect one, so I soldered in the correct TP122. Put everything back together, tested transistor with my DMM to make sure I did not destroy it with the heat on soldering (did not, since I was soldering at 650 degree only).
Turned the machine back on, and went into coil test mode. Still nothing. ..... So I figured I wait till my body shows up with his equipment to test the flip flop U4 chip, I'll play a little. Suddenly my entire coil row is out. own Fuse F7.....
Had to take the LED flasher back board from flipperfidelity out to change the fuses. Figured I leave it out and disconnected for now to make it easier to trouble shoot the board in place. New fuse in and machine back on on. Ringwraith flasher is ALWAYS ON!!! What the fu@#. Take board out again...the brand new TP122 is blown.....what???. Continuity test per Pin_Guys advice. Why the heck did the fuse blow and why did the TP122 burn.....
Some insight made me look at the interactive LED backboard. Tracing the pin5 flasher....what the he#$$
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That does not look right. That is a direct short back to the board.....
So the incorrect transistor acted as a switch to not blow the fuse. After my correct TP122 was in, it created the short and the Fuse blew.
Desoldered pin 5 from the LED backboard and soldered it back onto the correct negative pole of the flasher LED. Voila.....all working.

No idea how this wasn't discovered by anybody before. Chapter closed....onto my blown force feedback motor on my Off-Road Challange.

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Glad you got it squared away and thanks for posting your findings.
I cant help but wonder if the TIP102 was installed as part of this lighting mod in order to drive the additional lighting since the TIP102 is capable of pushing more current than the TIP122. I would have done the same thing as you and removed it since it was not properly installed.

I doubt that was the case. The TP122 works just fine and the back light board panel from fidelity is plug and play. I think what happend is that the board made it out of their assembly with the pin5 soldered to the incorrect pole (double positive), somebody installed it, and it blew fuse and transistor. Somebody figured they just need to replace the transistor and all they had was the 102. They did a crappy job on the solder as well, so it basically was acting as an off switch, which saved the fuse from blowing. Nobody would ever realize that the LED flasher behind the translite wasn't working, and they did not bother about the ringwraith flasher.

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