Need help with Gottleib King of Diamonds


By swtrains

4 months ago


Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by swtrains
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

Find

Search this topic for posts matching certain words or written by a specific Pinsider. Or both!




Linked Games




#1 4 months ago

I have a (generally) well behaved KoD which I have put a bit of tlc into. It plays well and is a lovely old school experience. But...

On the last ball, ball 5, when the ball drains, the score reels reset to zero. I am sure this shouldn't happen - my experience is that they normally reset when you press the start button for a new game.

Maybe I am wrong here (not unknown) but just in case, can any one suggest what I should be checking to correct the problem?

I have a schematic, but can spot no obvious places to check.

Thanks for your patience!

#2 4 months ago

When the 5th ball goes into the outhole, do the score reels reset, the game goes to ball one, and it's ready to play a new game? Or do the score reels reset and the game over light / match light turns on?

You would need to look at the schematic to see what circuits and switches send power to the score reel solenoids. It could be an issue with a score motor switch in the same circuit that sends power to the score reel solenoids...

#3 4 months ago

Thanks, Fred. It's the second scenario - score reels reset and game over light/match light turns on.

I'll have another nosy at the schematic, but it does tend to make my head spin!

I suspect there is a switch somewhere with too tight a clearance that is touching when it shouldn't. Just need to narrow down the list of suspects.

1 week later
#4 4 months ago

Check the reset relay, (on the bank in the bottom of the cabinet). Some switches may be making when they shouldn't because the overhead bar, (down the length of the bank of relays), attached to the reset coil, is binding up and isn't returning all the way to it's "Standby" position, (after resetting at the beginning of the game).

You can check this WITHOUT messing with the relay switches by first loosening the wingnuts, (on each side of the bank of relays), lifting the entire bank out of it's housing, and letting it rest on top of the housing. Don't worry, nothing will come apart, it's hinged. Play a few entire games with the bank in this position to see if there is improvement.

#5 4 months ago

Thanks Boatcat - my apologies for the slow response!

I'll give your suggestion a try and report back. I admit I didn't have the confidence to fire up the game without everything in original position, so you've helped me already.

#6 4 months ago

I've tried loosing the reset stack, but swinging it up makes it foul the playfield, so I just left it loose. Problem still there! Also, sometimes, the credit unit keeps counting down at start up - bashing the cabinet side near the reset stack tends to stop it.

I've discovered also a missing score motor brake spring at 3 1/2 on the motor - luckily I've managed to fit a replacement, but it didn't fix either of my problems.

Using the schematic to try and find a link between the last ball and score reel resetting is challenging - someone suggested the Z relay would do the resetting, but why would it do it at the wrong time? Can anyone suggest any obvious relays to double check?

Interestingly, my schematic shows switches on the score motor which I don't actually have - was there another KoD version with extra features which the schematic would also cover?

#7 4 months ago

How is the backbox card animation assembly sitting? It also has wingnuts holding it in place. I had mine slip out of position causing all sorts of crazy scoring. worth a shot to check.

#8 4 months ago

The backbox animation bank has given problems in the past - the machine can misbehave on startup if it's not tightened just right. But I've checked the switches in the KB relay and everything seems to be correct there in terms of open/closed switches.

I'm still not confident it is behaving itself though, so good call!

#9 4 months ago

Carefully inspect the switches in the relay NEXT to the #2 card in the head, (on the bank). It is hidden behind the animation window. This is the reset-completed relay, which is de-energized ONLY during reset, (keeping the score motor running to give the score reels energy to work their way back to "0". Once the reels are at "0," this relay energizes, (stopping the score motor, allowing the game to recognize the ball in the outhole, energizing the outhole relay to kick the ball out to the shooting lane).

The reset-completed relay usually accompanies the start relay on the bank in the base of the cabinet, but, forgot this is a King of Diamonds. Sorry 'bout that. None-the-less, your problem seems to start at the end of the game, meaning to me, when the game-over relay, (in the bank at the base of the cabinet), energizes. It's actuator may possibly be pushing back on that overhead reset bar, interfering with the start relay switches. When you loosened the bar wing nuts, did you lift the entire assembly out of it's bracket and let it rest on it's housing? It's important to totally remove from it's housing, (and let it rest on top), as this will allow the reset bar room for its travel, (if it's not binding up).

What is the "KB" Relay? I'm not working with a schematic here.....

3 weeks later
#10 3 months ago

Sorry, Boatcat, I do read your posts to others and envy your immense knowledge and how you patiently share it with others. So I feel real bad that I have been away from the forum for a while and missed your helpful advice. Please forgive!

You seem to be spot on re the reset relay (which for some reason I called the KB when it is in fact the DB relay) it seems real touchy. On inspection it seems all okay (1B, 5A iirc), but I suspect there is some unwanted movement or gremlins if the reset bar is not exactly positioned and tightened.

Problems I have had in the past (as well as the above) have included ball not kicking into the shooter lane and the game credits continually counting down untill they reach zero. These have disappeared of their own accord, probably because I have swung over the reset units for switch inspection, and the retightening of the wingnuts has slightly altered something. Or pixie dust.

My present issue is that all seems to be working as it should except that when the ball hits a bumper or operates a rollover, instead of the expected 5 or 10 points, the 100 reel will clock up a hundred (sometimes more).

As this happens in lots of scoring positions, I assume it is not a playfield issue, but where should I start my visuals for investigating this.

As stated, I do have a schematic, but I'm not making much headway in understanding it (is it just me, or is it one of the dark arts...?)

Again, apologies to Boatcat. If you have any reserves of patience left, I would sure appreciate some pointers.

#11 3 months ago

Will the hundreds score if you bang on the playfield with your fist?

#12 3 months ago

I see where you're heading with this, John. Will give it a try and report back later.

Good suggestion - and my level of tech!

#13 3 months ago

Oh dear, my hopes were dashed - banging the playfield did nothing!

However, when I gently pressed a 50 bonus button, the scored clocked up 450. There's a sticky switch somewhere.....

#14 3 months ago
Quoted from swtrains:

Oh dear, my hopes were dashed - banging the playfield did nothing!
However, when I gently pressed a 50 bonus button, the scored clocked up 450. There's a sticky switch somewhere.....

How many turns of the score motor? If just 1 120 degree movement... I'd suspect the 9s rollover contact on the 10's reel, ie closed all the time.

#15 3 months ago

Great call pinhead - I kept an eye on the score motor, while pressing a target, and sure enough, I clocked up an extra 400 with only a 120 degree turn. So I pulled the 10's reel, found the offending switch and adjusted it. Result! You are a star, many thanks!

Prior to this cry for help, I did consult my schematic, but while it shows what each relay should have in terms of switches and settings, units like the score reels (which actually contain more switches than some relays) are not listed. So it was hard to work out what settings I should be looking for.

One thing this "silly scoring" did reveal was that replays were not being awarded. The replay plugs are on the appropriate sockets for the required score, but passing this score does not award the credit. Any suggestions gratefully received.

#16 3 months ago

There's a switch on the credit wheel that opens when the max number of replays is hit, opening the circuit to add to replays. It might be misadjusted (spell check says I should use maladjusted, but that just doesn't sound right!) or dirty.

#17 3 months ago

swtrains,

Now I owe YOU an apology for not responding timely, sorry 'bout that. I never did quite understand the exact problem you were having until you stated:

Quoted from swtrains:

However, when I gently pressed a 50 bonus button, the scored clocked up 450. There's a sticky switch somewhere.....

This specific symptom is usually a score reel problem which we all would've been happy to steer you to immediately. Glad you found your problem. KoD is a great game, enjoy!

#18 3 months ago
Quoted from swtrains:

Great call pinhead - I kept an eye on the score motor, while pressing a target, and sure enough, I clocked up an extra 400 with only a 120 degree turn. So I pulled the 10's reel, found the offending switch and adjusted it. Result! You are a star, many thanks!
Prior to this cry for help, I did consult my schematic, but while it shows what each relay should have in terms of switches and settings, units like the score reels (which actually contain more switches than some relays) are not listed. So it was hard to work out what settings I should be looking for.
One thing this "silly scoring" did reveal was that replays were not being awarded. The replay plugs are on the appropriate sockets for the required score, but passing this score does not award the credit. Any suggestions gratefully received.

I just had a similar problem on a SpinACard Im working on... 1s and 10s moving in unison...I score 1 pt Id get 10 as well. Needed to look at diagram and find the contacts on the cards, 1pt on a switch if not made, 10 if made etc. turns out the C form contact was closed feeding both scoring relays at once. Regapped the C to ensure open closed or closed open and problem solved

#19 3 months ago

Guys, I wish I had a fraction of your knowledge/experience! Many thanks for sharing - much appreciated.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 50.00
Lighting - Led
Rock Custom Pinball
$ 22.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 115.00
Cabinet Parts
Merf's Pins
$ 43.50
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 27.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
€ 9.95
Playfield - Other
Multigame
From: $ 210.00
From: $ 24.99
Lighting - Led
Lee's Parts
$ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 15.00
Various Other Swag
Double Danger Pinball
$ 445.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
MI Pinball Refinery
From: $ 20.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 26.99
Lighting - Interactive
Lee's Parts
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 6.00
Electronics
German-Pinball-Modular
$ 24.50
From: $ 10.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
$ 79.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Sign up for a Pinside account, or log in if you already have an account.