(Topic ID: 238873)

Need help with Captain Fantastic


By pinheadpierre

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by pinheadpierre
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 1 year ago

I'm pretty stumped by my Captain Fantastic. It starts a game and plays, but is not scoring points or ringing chimes in some scenarios. I suspect that my bonus unit was messed with by the previous owner. (The machine did not start at all when I bought it.)

Here are the issues:

1) The side lane star rollovers score points and ring their chime normally when unlit. When lit, they advance the bonus normally but do not register points on the score reel or ring the chime.

2) The gate lane (right outlane when gate is closed) works normally when gate is closed (scores points/rings chime) but like the rollovers described above do not score points or ring the chime when the gate is open though it does advance the bonus as it should.

3) The inlane (adjacent the gate lane) advances the bonus normally but again, no points or chimes.

4) The two outer lanes at the top arch score points and ring the chime when unlit. When lit, they advance the bonus as they should but, like the others above, do not score points on the score reel or ring the chime - unless I keep the switch held down with my finger, then the points register and the chime rings. Additionally, they only momentarily light A or B. As soon as the switch is no longer depressed, A or B go back to being unlit.

All of this seems related, right? But to what?

I have long been suspect of the bonus unit configuration. I'm pretty sure it's not right but I'm also unsure what correct would look like. First, I am unsure that the switch stack is stacked correctly.

Could someone with a functional CF please take some pictures of their switch stack to verify what the correct wire sequence is? Also, what should the position of the switches and stepper wheel look like at the beginning of a ball?

I have tried in vain to figure this out for countless evenings and would greatly appreciate any help that would get me over this hump!

Here are some pictures of my switch stack wiring from various angles and of the stepper unit at the beginning of a ball:

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#2 1 year ago

I had a problem with mine not scoring the count down bonus after the ball drained and it was one of relays down in the lower cabinet.

Sorry i cant remember which one but will look when i get home

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from timab2000:

I had a problem with mine not scoring the count down bonus after the ball drained and it was one of relays down in the lower cabinet.
Sorry i cant remember which one but will look when i get home

Thank you. While you are under the hood, could you please take some pictures showing your bonus unit switch stack wiring and the gear position at the beginning of a ball?

#4 1 year ago

Here are some pictures of the bonus unit

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#5 1 year ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Thank you. While you are under the hood, could you please take some pictures showing your bonus unit switch stack wiring and the gear position at the beginning of a ball?

Thank you - that helps. I still really need a picture or description of the wiring order for the switch stack shown in your last photo.

#6 1 year ago

Here’s a couple more

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1 week later
#7 12 months ago
Quoted from tandem2:

Here’s a couple more
[quoted image][quoted image]

Had an unexpected delay. Haven't been able to give this time again until today. Well.... those pictures confirm that my bonus unit is wired properly. I am officially stumped.

#8 12 months ago

Bump

#9 12 months ago

If the 100 Point relay doesn't fire when it should with the bonus, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
starting with the indicated end-of-stroke switch on the Bonus unit
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

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#10 12 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the 100 Point relay doesn't fire when it should with the bonus, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
starting with the indicated end-of-stroke switch on the Bonus unit
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
[quoted image]

I'm new to the jumper wire technique. Let's see if I'm reading and understanding this correctly.

Should I be jumpering from the gray wire in the 100 point relay coil to the blue wire on the bonus unit end of stroke switch as my first step?

#11 11 months ago

Is the Bonus Unit end-of-stroke switch adjusted correctly?

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

#12 11 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Is the Bonus Unit end-of-stroke switch adjusted correctly?
For a switch to work 3 things are necessary
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

Yes - the end of stroke switch is definitely properly gapped and clean. I verified continuity between the switch blades when closed with my multimeter but I'm still uncertain about my approach to the jumper wire.

#13 11 months ago

rolf_martin_062 might be a better fit for you, pinheadpierre . I'll send him an invitation in a private message.

#14 11 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

@rolf_martin_062 might be a better fir for you, @pinheadpierre . I'll send him an invitation in a private message.

Thank you.

#15 11 months ago

Here are a couple photos of what I am thinking is the relevant part of the schematic.

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#16 11 months ago

The last sentence at the bottom of this page of the manual has me curious. How do I identify the contact which is supposed to hold a relay one or has been energized? It seems like this could be part of my issue since the "A" and "B" relays are not holding once energized.

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#17 11 months ago

Hi pinheadpierre
The so-called "Self-Hold-Switch" on a relay is usually easy to be found - from one side of the coil on the relay a short wire of any color runs to "switch mounted on the relay" - THIS is the Self-Hold-Switch. Not all Self-Hold-Switches on relays are wired this way - lets say 90 to 95 percent.

Hmm - I thought when HowardR takes care of problems - no need for me to participate in the topic. pinheadpierre, do You have some Jumper-Wires, -Cables with gator clips on the ends ? Do You have an old fashioned cheap bedroom light (no energy-saving bulb like Neon- or LED-Bulb, just old-fashioned cheap Edison-Type bulb, hopefully a simple two-prong plug (three-prong plug is also good) - I assume You live in the USA - 110VAC in the houses, Bally runs the relays and steppers in the EM-Pins on 48VAC - an 110VAC cheap bedroom light will work as a Test-Light - shines up clearly visible). Mabe this is my last post for today - Switzerland, Europe is ahead in time to the USA some 7 to 10 hours - I soon will go to sleep. Greetings Rolf

#18 11 months ago

Thank you, Rolf. Yes, I have all of those things.

#19 11 months ago

I am also suspicious of this hack infested area. Could someone please post pictures of what the wiring in this area is supposed to look like?

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#20 11 months ago

Hi pinheadpierre
look at the JPG - the stuff on the righthandside I had to mirrow vertical from the schematics. I see - when the pin is set to "5 balls per game" and when the Outhole-Relay is not pulling: Manually moving the plunger on the Bonus-Unit to step-up the Unit closes the End-Of-Stroke-Switch --- 100 points must be given.
Using the (Bedroom) Test-Light set like "drawn orange": The Test-Light should be lit whenever the Outhole-Relay is not pulling. You may connect the Test-Light to "one of my blue dots" connecting to "rosa, pink dot" - alike what I show drawn orange / drawn brown.
DANGER - 110VAC can kill You - 48VAC can kill You - 6VAC can kill. Please wear rubber gloves (for insulation) - NEVER touch solder-lugs, bare wires. It is late - I go to sleep - till tomorrow. Greetings Rolf

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#21 11 months ago

Thank you, Rolf. I'm heading out of town for the next four days. Let's continue when I return. I appreciate your willingness to help.

#22 11 months ago
Quoted from HowardR:

If the 100 Point relay doesn't fire when it should with the bonus, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
starting with the indicated end-of-stroke switch on the Bonus unit
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
[quoted image]

I printed out the single page tutorial on the jumper wire technique and brought it with me to the airport. It finally clicked. (No pun intended.) I'll try narrowing down the problem area this way when I return from my trip.

#23 11 months ago

Got it! It was the normally closed switch on the outhole relay on the schematic shown on the upper right of the section of the schematic posted directly above. I traced it down with the help of a jumper wire and my multimeter. The switch blades were touching, but not tightly enough. Amazing how something can look okay but not be perfect enough to work.

Thank you to @rolf_martin_062 for your help, especially considering that it seems that you stayed up late to lend a hand. Though you might not have intended it as part of your help, by posting a highlighted section of the schematic, you taught me how to read the odd, continued above or below nature of the Bally EM schematic. It inspired me to scan my schematic and print out sections to practice highlighting various circuits myself.

Thank you also to @howardr for your help. I did not initially understand the material you linked to, but spending some additional quality time with it in the airport helped. Armed with a few new bits of understanding, I feel more confident in my ability to diagnose and repair my next EM puzzle, whatever it may be. (It remains to be seen if I actually succeed on my own next time!)

Thanks also to @tandem2 for the helpful photographs which allowed me to verify that my bonus unit was wired correctly.

Speaking of correct wiring, the "hacks" I was suspicious of on the fuse board area of the cabinet are mostly not hacks at all. Based on comparing mine to a photo from another pinsider who is rebuilding a CF, those "hacks" are stock from the factory. Hmmmm....I might feel compelled to tidy that work up a bit when I get into restoring this puppy.

Now that I've got it working, I'll do my usual thing of playing it a bit and then tearing it all down for a deep playfield restoration and full cabinet repaint.

Thanks again everyone. I truly appreciate the help and education!

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