(Topic ID: 249968)

Need help with Bally Deluxe Club shuffle bowler


By Boslaw

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 26 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Boslaw
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 13 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    30F198C9-323C-4F19-B7B1-746CD761DEFF (resized).jpeg
    bowler (resized).jpeg
    light (resized).jpg
    IMG_5852 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5862 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5867 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5868 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5870 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5869 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5871 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5874 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5873 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_5872 (resized).jpeg

    #1 7 months ago

    I have a few problems and I have no clue where to begin. I have schematics & manual but need help understanding what I'm looking at. Here are the problems so far:

    1. player 2 ones score reel doesn't reset. The reel scores properly and advances to tens during the game - it just won't reset. I've checked the reel mechanism, and it does move the switches properly when advancing each number. The player 2&5 reset switches seems to work properly as well.

    2. backbox light sockets are loose and don't always light up properly. Example, there's a light to indicate when a player has a strike. The light sometimes flashes and then goes out for player one. Occasionally, the light will go back on when the player switches. The backbox lights also flicker off occasionally when scores are tallying. This leads me to believe there are one or more loose connections, but I don't know if that's the right thing to look for. Trying to find one or more loose connections seems a little overwhelming at this point.

    3. It looks like some previous owner/tech jumped 2 fuse sockets together and removed one of the fuses. I don't know enough about how these things work to know if this is a problem but it doesn't seem like a good idea. On the other hand, the machine is generally working. . .

    Pics are attached. Any help is greatly appreciated. I haven't been able to find much here or on the web about this particular machine.

    Thanks!
    IMG_5852 (resized).jpeg

    IMG_5862 (resized).jpegIMG_5867 (resized).jpegIMG_5868 (resized).jpegIMG_5869 (resized).jpegIMG_5870 (resized).jpegIMG_5871 (resized).jpegIMG_5872 (resized).jpegIMG_5873 (resized).jpegIMG_5874 (resized).jpeg
    #2 7 months ago

    The fuses and their placement are accurate. You don't want to put a fuse in the low line holder..
    If the Reset relay for Player 2 (and 5) switches are clean and adjusted properly, I'd recheck
    the run-out switch in the 2nd Player 1s score reel that opens only when the reel is on zero..
    If you're having problems with the lights and they're suppose to be flashing, it very possible
    is a contact that runs off of the score motor's cam, and it would be one that runs off of a
    cam that has multiple teeth. The lighting could also come from a Flash motor, but I think the
    flash motor would only be for the speed scoring..

    #3 7 months ago

    Thanks for the quick reply. The run-out switch on the 2nd player 1s reel does open correctly only when the reel is on zero (I took the reel apart last night and re-assembled, and confirmed by manually advancing the reel. I also note that the reels score properly in-game). The reset relay switches also appear to be clean and adjusted properly but I'll check that again. If both of these are as they should be, is there anywhere else to look for problems?

    As for the lights, they are not supposed to be flashing. They're supposed to be constant. Whenever there's a burst of power (i.e. when the machine shifts players, or when the machine is running through its scoring routine) they will often quickly go on and then immediately turn off (one time, not flashing). Example, player 1 scores a strike. The strike light will often quickly come on and then immediately shut off as if the light switch was turned off when the machine shifts to player 2. Sometimes the light will come back on and stay until the machine comes back around to player 1. Sometimes it will stay off. There's no rhyme or reason that I can tell.

    #4 7 months ago
    Quoted from Boslaw:

    The reset relay switches also appear to be clean and adjusted properly but I'll check that again. If both of these are as they should be, is there anywhere else to look for problems?

    If the other score reels are resetting okay, then there isn't any other contacts. If the run-out switch and reset switches are okay,
    you may need to do some jumping to see where a possible broken wire may be, but I's maybe first recheck the contacts and
    their solder joints and possible loose wires..

    Quoted from Boslaw:

    As for the lights, they are not supposed to be flashing. They're supposed to be constant. Whenever there's a burst of power (i.e. when the machine shifts players, or when the machine is running through its scoring routine) they will often quickly go on and then immediately turn off (one time, not flashing). Example, player 1 scores a strike. The strike light will often quickly come on and then immediately shut off

    It's not uncommon that the Mark Relay's switches need additional cleaning and adjusting.
    Note: At times, not only the Relay that is energized is carrying the circuit, but also that player's
    relay's mate could also be carrying the lights circuit even though it's not presently energized..
    When a Strike or Spare suppose to be lit, you'll want to check all contacts in both of
    that Player's Strike/Spare Relays..

    #5 7 months ago

    Thanks. I was hoping you would say that the light issue is likely the result of these dodgy loose Bally light sockets, and that you'd have some genius and simple way to tighten and make them more reliable

    light (resized).jpg
    #6 7 months ago

    If it's not the switches in the relay(s), with the machine off, you can take the bulb out
    and carefully push that little sockets center tab in a little bit so it has more pressure on
    the tail of the bulb.
    If there's a socket that's not so easy to get from the backside, with a tiny Allen wrench,
    you can pull that tab a hair..
    Although some say they had, I really didn't have much problems with Bally sockets..

    1 week later
    #7 7 months ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    If the other score reels are resetting okay, then there isn't any other contacts. If the run-out switch and reset switches are okay,
    you may need to do some jumping to see where a possible broken wire may be, but I's maybe first recheck the contacts and
    their solder joints and possible loose wires..

    i went back and re-adjusted the score reel switches and now they are resetting correctly. New problem is that after 4 or 5 frames, the game goes haywire and gets stuck on one frame, only gives one puck per person, starts randomly scoring strikes, etc. I assume there's a problem with one of the steppers- maybe a dirty contact?

    3 months later
    #8 4 months ago

    On this shuffle bowler, the pin holder has bulbs around its perimeter (see arrows) plus one bulb that is labeled "shoot." I can't identify anything on the schematic that seems specific to these bulbs, so I'm assuming that these are considered "general illumination."

    Only 2 of the bulbs light up (I've replaced all bulbs with new bulbs). I haven't traced the wires yet but I can confirm that the 2 lit bulbs are wired with different colored wire than the others. I don't understand why they're not all on the same circuit/wire. I also don't know when/why the "shoot" light is supposed to be lit.

    If anyone has any insight I would greatly appreciate it. I'm trying to go through the whole machine to fix all of the little issues but the number of relays, discs, and switches is really overwhelming me at the moment.

    Thanks

    bowler (resized).jpeg
    #9 4 months ago
    Quoted from Boslaw:

    I don't understand why they're not all on the same circuit/wire. I also don't know when/why the "shoot" light is supposed to be lit.

    I believe those bulbs that are not lit under the pin deck is on the same circuit as the "Shoot Again"
    light which should be lit when the Score Motor isn't moving (energized). I'm pretty sure it's a set
    of switches off a Score Motor cam that should be closed when the Score Motor is at rest. I'm not
    sure which one on your machine, but it could be the same switch as on a Bally Ball Bowler. If you
    can't locate the cam switch, I'll check a ball bowler's schematic..
    BTW: Do you have a schematic for your machine? If so, it'll be in the "Shoot Again" light circuitry..

    #10 4 months ago

    Thanks Mopar. I do have the schematic (posted above in this thread). If I look at the 4th picture I posted above, upper left corner there is a "shoot lites" on the schematic, with a line running through a switch on the score motor as you suggested. Based on this, I assume I need to trace the wires from the lights back to the score motor to determine which switch they're connected to, and then determine if that switch is clean, energized, etc.?

    #11 4 months ago

    Okay, I just looked above. On Ball Bowlers, there's 4 or so switch stacks on the backside
    of the Score Motor's cam. Maybe it's the same as yours. I think switch 10A is one of those
    4 stacks on the backside. For sure the "A" in 10A represents the lower set of switches in the
    stack. The one closest to the cam. It'll be a set that closes toward the end of the Score Motor's
    revolution. Your schematic (or a label inside the machine) should say which stack is 10.
    I'd first properly clean and gap the 10A switch..

    #12 4 months ago

    Thanks much, this is a huge help!

    #13 4 months ago

    I also see the circuit goes through the 10th Frame Unit.
    I'm thinking the 10A set of switches is more likely the issue,
    but maybe wouldn't hurt to clean and lube the 10th Frame
    Unit's wiper board also..

    #15 3 months ago

    I think part of the flakiness with this machine may be due to the director unit. It’s always just off the rivets. Is there an easy way to adjust? They definitely didn’t make these easy to remove.

    30F198C9-323C-4F19-B7B1-746CD761DEFF (resized).jpeg
    #16 3 months ago
    Quoted from Boslaw:

    Is there an easy way to adjust?

    Yes, You have to take off the Wiper (probably a philip head screw) and then
    there's two screw you loosen, turn the wiper board slightly (in this case clockwise)
    then tighten the two screws and check if it's now aliened..
    Note: When taking off the Wiper's screw, hold back on the backside gear..

    #17 3 months ago

    Got it, thanks. Fixed that.

    Made great progress today.

    Figured out that the other lights above the pins were dark because the jones plug they pass through was loose or dirty. Fixed that.

    Discovered that this machine has a chime and fixed that (the solenoid was stuck).

    Last (maybe final) issue is the various lights for strikes, spares, and frames. The wipers and contacts on the frame relay are clean and making good contact. The wires for the frame lights are all soldered well but they sometimes are on, sometimes off. I assume that something they're passing through (besides the frame relay unit) is loose or not making good connections.

    #18 3 months ago

    On the Strike/Spare lights, there's two Relays per player for the Spares and Strikes.
    Their contacts need to be cleaned and adjusted properly. Even if one of the two isn't energized,
    it doesn't mean one of it's sets of contacts isn't in the Strike/Spare lighting circuit that's presently
    suppose to be lit..
    On the Frame lights, when one of the frames are lit, go back to the Frame Unit and locate the
    blade that is lighting that frame. Then step the Frame Unit up until a frame is not lit, then while
    putting a little pressure on that one blade, check if one of the frames are lit. You may have to take
    the wiper off and bend that one blade just a little inward so it has a little more tension on its wiper
    board. You might also want to check the other blades while it's off for weak tension..

    #19 3 months ago

    Thanks again Mopar. You keep pushing me along

    With regard to the frame light issue, I’ve identified the correct wiper that lights up the light and made sure that all rivets are clean and that the wiper is making good contact. However, there are still intermittent times when the light doesn’t light up, or lights up and then goes out. I’ve also checked the solder connection to the light socket. That is good and tight. Therefore, I think there may be some issue between the frame unit and the light sockets. I’ve started trying to jumper between the frame unit and the light sockets, and now I’ll just have to explore the schematic to see if I can figure out all of the through points. I would love to just pull all of the wire ties off and trace the wires, but I don’t want to make a mess unnecessarily.

    After cleaning and tightening the frame unit, a new problem arose - if I start a 1 player game, sometimes the machine will automatically add players 2-6 somewhere in the middle of the game. It’s random. I’ve checked the coin unit and that stays on the 1 player setting, so something must be incorrectly energizing the player up coil. That’s my latest issue.

    #20 3 months ago

    On the frame lights, I believe the common wire may go to the Frame Unit's metal frame.
    You may want to check that out. Also, when a frame suppose to be lit but it's not, I'd put
    a voltage meter or test light on that socket to make certain that it's not the socket..
    On the Player Step up energizing when on a single player.
    It sounds like once in a while the Player Up Reset Relay isn't energizing. It needs to energize
    to break the circuit to the Player Unit's step up coil..
    The Player Up Reset Relay's circuitry goes through the Coin and Player Step Up Units. That's how
    it determines when to reset back to the 1st player. I'd first clean the Coin and Player Step Ups.
    It could be a set of switches that's barely making in the Score Motor, but I'd first check those
    two Step Ups..

    1 week later
    #21 3 months ago

    Still struggling with this one. I finally have all of the lights lighting up when they're supposed to, chime ringing, etc.

    Latest Problem - my frame unit skips around. I'll play 2 or 3 frames, and everything will work properly, but then randomly on the 4th frame (or the 6th or 7th or 8th) the frame unit will skip back to 1 or some other earlier frame. It's random.

    When I manually flip the double mark switch to end a player's turn, the frame unit progresses properly. When I manually press the frame unit solenoids, the frame unit moves easily and correctly. Wipers are clean and making good contact at every frame. I've tried watching various switches while my daughter launches pucks, but I can't figure out what's happening when the frame unit skips backwards.

    Any ideas for this one?

    #22 3 months ago
    Quoted from Boslaw:

    but then randomly on the 4th frame (or the 6th or 7th or 8th) the frame unit will skip back to 1 or some other earlier frame. It's random.

    Shooting from the hip here but could the Frame stepper be getting a brief reset pulse during the game, or maybe a reset pulse at the same time as an advance pulse? You could put a bulb tester across the reset solenoid solder lugs to see if it ever fires when you see the problem.

    /Mark

    #23 3 months ago

    Yes, like Mark said, there's a good chance that the Frame's Reset Coil is getting a pulse
    during game play.
    I'd check the Start Relay contacts. There may be an open set that's a bit too close together
    and sometime slightly touches from vibration..
    What's nice about Bally Bowlers, those contacts are easy to get to..

    #24 3 months ago

    Merry Christmas everyone!

    So I tried the bulb tester across both terminals on the frame reset coil and. . .blew a 50v fuse. I only used one bulb - guess I should have used 2? Anyway, now I'm dead in the water until I get more fuses.

    #25 3 months ago

    And to you too. Sorry to hear that. You'll want to use enough bulbs in series to cover close to 50 volts or more. For example:
    - four 12 volt automotive bulbs (48 volts total)
    - eight 6.3 volt game bulbs like 44 or 47 (50.4 volts total)
    - one household incandescent bulb (will be dimmer than expected but should work)

    You could also swap some bulbs for high wattage resistors if you have them but you'll need to do a little more math. The object is to limit the current through the bulb tester so that neither the fuse nor the bulbs blow.

    #26 3 months ago

    got it - picking up fuses in the morning. I have some automotive bulbs I can string together for this

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    € 18.95
    $ 95.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    M&M Mods
    $ 89.99
    Lighting - Led
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 40.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Arcade Arts
    $ 99.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 2.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Doc's Pinball Shop
    $ 139.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 24.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 49.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 64.95
    $ 299.00
    From: € 3.70
    Flipper Parts
    Buthamburg
    $ 139.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 395.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    M&M Mods
    $ 10.00
    Cabinet Parts
    Flashinstinct
    $ 89.99
    $ 54.99
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 2.00
    Various Other Swag
    Project Pinball Charity
    $ 54.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    $ 16.00

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside