Need help with 1975 Bally Wizard not working after credit button is pressed

It seems like the reset sequence does not complete correctly. Does the score motor continue spinning or does it come to rest? What happens if you push the credit button more than 4 times?

From the pictures here, it looks like player 1, ball 1 is up. Check the wiring for the backbox GI lights as they should all be on the same circuit. The bonus should be at 1000 at the start of a game, if it's more then the bonus unit hasn't been reset.

#3 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

Quoted from sizteves:
It seems like the reset sequence does not complete correctly. Does the score motor continue spinning or does it come to rest? What happens if you push the credit button more than 4 times?
From the pictures here, it looks like player 1, ball 1 is up. Check the wiring for the backbox GI lights as they should all be on the same circuit. The bonus should be at 1000 at the start of a game, if it's more then the bonus unit hasn't been reset.

The score motor spins for a few secs then it comes to stop.
each time I press the credit button, it will decrement by 1 until it reaches 0. So if my credit is set to 10, each time pressing the credit button causes the score motor to spin for a few sec and decrement the credit number by 1 until reaches 0.

#4 2 years ago

SNL

sizteves

Pinside+ Frequent

Does the score reset relays move when resetting? If not, can you move them manually to see if the score wheels respond?

What's the names of the relays that does move?

#5 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

Quoted from sizteves:
Does the score reset relays move when resetting? If not, can you move them manually to see if the score wheels respond?
What's the names of the relays that does move?

So sorry for my stupid question, but I am very new to this.
Where is the score reset relays? don't give up on me

Thanks

#6 2 years ago

SNL

sizteves

Pinside+ Frequent

I don't have the machine here, so I can't check, but I think they are located in the back box. They are connected to cam 2 switch A and cam 11 switch B on the score motor. Try measuring continuity of the cables with a multimeter, or use alligator cables to rewire and then try resetting again.

Try to find out which main circuits are not working first, then eliminate sub-circuits one by one. If that makes no sense according to the schematics, it may be a connector or cable issue.

#7 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

Quoted from sizteves:
I don't have the machine here, so I can't check, but I think they are located in the back box. They are connected to cam 2 switch A and cam 11 switch B on the score motor. Try measuring continuity of the cables with a multimeter, or use alligator cables to rewire and then try resetting again.
Try to find out which main circuits are not working first, then eliminate sub-circuits one by one. If that makes no sense according to the schematics, it may be a connector or cable issue.

Thanks for the info. SO today I got to figure out what is cam2 switch A and cam 11 switch B.

Also If you look at the pic, you can see only right side lights are ON. and none of the tip flashing lights are working. Possible if that is the main issue and power is not getting to something?

#8 2 years ago

SNL

sizteves

Pinside+ Frequent

Obviously power is missing from some circuits. But all the lamps are on the same main circuit and the back box has power. Try connecting the non-working circuits with the working ones with alligator clip cables. BTW the 6 V (lights) and 50 V (everything else) systems are not directly connected. Don't get them messed up or you will blow all your lamps!

#9 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

I made some progress but not sure if is a good progress.
As you know once the game is reset nothing on the playing field works.
However if I close these 2 switched pointed by the stick, the 1000 score advance once and everything else is start to work on the playing field. But I hear a buzzing noise means the coil for the 1000 score is still activated. any idea what this unit does and why that causes everything on the playing field to work including the flipper?
w24 (resized).jpeg

#10 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

Quoted from sizteves:
I don't have the machine here, so I can't check, but I think they are located in the back box. They are connected to cam 2 switch A and cam 11 switch B on the score motor. Try measuring continuity of the cables with a multimeter, or use alligator cables to rewire and then try resetting again.
Try to find out which main circuits are not working first, then eliminate sub-circuits one by one. If that makes no sense according to the schematics, it may be a connector or cable issue.

I added some update. Does that makes any sense?

#11 2 years ago

SNL

sizteves

Pinside+ Frequent

This looks like the game over latch/trip relay that controls power to the flippers and playfield. It has two coils, one turns the switches on when a game starts (latch), then it stays on by itself mechanically until the other coil is energized when the game ends (trip). The startup problem may be caused by the latch relay not activating, you can try moving it manually to see if the game will start. The stuck 1000 pt relay may be a separate issue, you have to check all circuits that connects to the 1000 pt relay one by one.

#12 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

Quoted from sizteves:
This looks like the game over latch/trip relay that controls power to the flippers and playfield. It has two coils, one turns the switches on when a game starts (latch), then it stays on by itself mechanically until the other coil is energized when the game ends (trip). The startup problem may be caused by the latch relay not activating, you can try moving it manually to see if the game will start. The stuck 1000 pt relay may be a separate issue, you have to check all circuits that connects to the 1000 pt relay one by one.

Well that make sense now. When I turn on the game, I see the "Game over" light bulbs are ON (two of them). When I press the credit button, Then the game is getting reset and that unit latches which now the "Game over" lights go off, and ball 1 light is coming on.
see the pic for the condition of the coils when the game is started (not over). Now if during the game the green coil (red arrow) gets energized, then that will trigger the 1000 point relay on the back box.
Of course the problem is nothing is working on the playing field, but If I manually engage the green wrap coil (red arrow), then the score advances 1000 point, but if I don't let it go, it will causes the 1000 point relay to stay energized and everything else also works on the playing field. As soon as I let it go everything stop working on the playing field.
I hope it make sense.

Also, since I have the playing field vertically I can see the boards on that bottom, that shouldn't be a problem? Does the ball has to be in and launch for stuff to start working?

w25 (resized).jpeg

#13 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

I think I found the problem and see if this make sense.
Let say I set the game manually to player 2, ball 4 and then turn off the power.
What should happen the next time I turn on the game? I would assume the "Lock" relay will latch the "Game over" relay to display Game Over?
However this is not what is happening. When I turn the power on, and press the left flipper button, I see the "Lock" relay is getting energized, but will not latch the "Game over" relay, therefore I still see player 2, ball 4.

Now if I manually latch the "Game over" relay, then I see Game over lit and if I press the credit button, it will go through the reset, and game over relay is unlatched and shows player 1, ball 1, but nothing is working on the playing field.

So where should I look for the problem? Basically relay should energize the "Game over" relay to latch so Game Over is shown?

This is the schematic for this game
https://www.ipdb.org/files/2803/Bally_1975_Wizard_Schematic.png

Thanks

#14 2 years ago

SNL

sizteves

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from borna:
What should happen the next time I turn on the game? I would assume the "Lock" relay will latch the "Game over" relay to display Game Over?

I don't think so. When power is cut during a game, the mechanism is in the "game on" position and stays there during repowering, since the trip coil cannot be energized through ball count position 4/6 or other switches.

Are you sure all the switches are correctly adjusted so that the playfield circuit actually has power when in latched position? The switch pointed out in post #9 is a main switch that controls all the game functions. Also check the lock relay break switch in schematic section H-4.

#15 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member

Quoted from sizteves:
I don't think so. When power is cut during a game, the mechanism is in the "game on" position and stays there during repowering, since the trip coil cannot be energized through ball count position 4/6 or other switches.
Are you sure all the switches are correctly adjusted so that the playfield circuit actually has power when in latched position? The switch pointed out in post #9 is a main switch that controls all the game functions. Also check the lock relay break switch in schematic section H-4.

Once the the switch pointed out in post #9 is closed, then the game works. Everything on the playing field function. The only issue is once is closed it also energize the 1000 point relay and keep it engaged until I open the switch again. not sure what that switch has anything to do with 1000 point relay?

#16 2 years ago

YYY

baldtwit

Pinside member

Portola Valley, CA

7y 42,550 1,026

wizard has a spinner on the playfield which relies on gravity. If you have the playfield up, the spinner switch may be closed.

best thing on spinner games is either stick paper between the spinner switch contacts or wedge the spinner so it can't move before lifting the playfield.

'course, I don't think the spinner scores 1000, so check for playfield switches being stuck closed that do score 1000.

#17 2 years ago

SNL

sizteves

Pinside+ Frequent

The spinner scores 100. There's a lot of circuits connected to the 1000 pt relay and everyone of them has to be inspected. Put pieces of paper between all contacts and remove one by one until you find the one causing problems.

#18 2 years ago

???

borna

Pinside member