(Topic ID: 251164)

Need help wiring up coil for kickback on High Speed


By PatD

3 months ago



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  • 14 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 months ago by cosmokramer
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Coil (resized).jpg
Coil table (resized).JPG

#1 3 months ago

So I started out with (What I thought) was a weak kickback. Did some digging and thanks to you guys, found someone installed the wrong coil (And the tip of the kickback is almost destroyed.)

Have the correct coil now, but want to make sure I'm wiring this up correctly. Previous coil had three lugs, though only two were connected. I wouldn't put it past someone to have this connected wrong based on the other messes I've found on my pin.

From what I've read, I want to connect the power wire to the banded side of the diode, right? To test, I put a DMM on each wire. The blue wire shows 69v and is connected to the UNBANDED side of the diode. The purple/yellow wire shows no voltage. The switch for the kickback was not depressed for testing.

Looking at the solenoid table for High Speed, I show this solenoid as having a brown-blue wire and believe the table references that as the ground wire based on the note (Which should go to the unbanded.) The brown-blue goes to a relay under the playfield and connects as the blue wire on the coil.

Totally lost based on all of this. Appreciate any help.

Coil (resized).jpgCoil table (resized).JPG
#2 3 months ago

Doesn't look like the right coil. Here's pics from my recent rebuild. Hope that helps!

IMG_0809 (resized).JPGIMG_0810 (resized).JPGIMG_0811 (resized).JPG
#3 3 months ago

Correct - the coil in the pictures is what is currently in the machine and is wrong. I'm replacing it. Before removing it, I want to make sure I have the wiring correct.

Unfortunately I can't see your diode in the pics so that doesn't help in that sense. But I want to understand the wiring instead of just copying it anyway.

Also, you should get a grommet on the back of that assembly unless you just didn't have it installed yet. I can't find it now, of course, but there was a service bulletin from Williams about folks having issues if the grommet wasn't installed.

https://www.thepinballwizard.net/rubber-rings/parts/kits/grommet-tan-rubber-23-6420/

#4 3 months ago
Quoted from PatD:

Correct - the coil in the pictures is what is currently in the machine and is wrong. I'm replacing it. Before removing it, I want to make sure I have the wiring correct.
Unfortunately I can't see your diode in the pics so that doesn't help in that sense. But I want to understand the wiring instead of just copying it anyway.
Also, you should get a grommet on the back of that assembly unless you just didn't have it installed yet. I can't find it now, of course, but there was a service bulletin from Williams about folks having issues if the grommet wasn't installed.
https://www.thepinballwizard.net/rubber-rings/parts/kits/grommet-tan-rubber-23-6420/

Leaving my incorrect text below, for posterity. Looking back at, the pics (I'm at work currently), grumpy is right - as usual There is indeed a diode there. Sorry for the misinformation.

*** Original, incorrect post ***
The correct coil doesn’t have a diode, or at least never has on mine (if memory serves correctly).

Thanks about the heads up on the grommet. Didn’t come with one, but will look into it.
*** Original, incorrect post ***

#5 3 months ago

Should be AE-24-900-01 as per the book, which does have a diode everywhere I've seen. Double-check - if you're missing one and my info is correct, I'd get one on there! Protect that circuit!

#6 3 months ago

The coil needs a diode. The purple wire is the power wire. The purple wire goes to the side of the diode with the band. The other coil wire should be blue and goes to the relay under the play field. If you need any help with the relay wiring just ask.

#7 3 months ago
Quoted from PatD:

From what I've read, I want to connect the power wire to the banded side of the diode, right?

Correct.

Quoted from PatD:

The blue wire shows 69v

I'm not sure how tested this, but this is incorrect. You may need to double check all the wiring first.

Quoted from PatD:

The switch for the kickback was not depressed for testing.

Not needed for testing.

Quoted from PatD:

Looking at the solenoid table for High Speed, I show this solenoid as having a brown-blue wire and believe the table references that as the ground wire based on the note (Which should go to the unbanded.)

This is the control wire from the CPU board, it goes to a relay instead of the coil because this coil uses higher voltage. The control transistor isn't strong enough for this higher voltage so they put a relay in between.

The pic below is for the hide out coil but is wired the same as the kick back coil.

hhs (resized).PNG
#8 3 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I'm not sure how tested this, but this is incorrect. You may need to double check all the wiring first.

Machine on, DMM connected to a ground and checked each wire for DC voltage. I did not remove either wire or the diode from the coil yet. But I think I wrote my results down wrong.

I just found the wiring in the amendment document, so that helps (Especially since it's readable!) Looks like violet/yellow should be on the banded side. So the current coil is wired correctly.

Re-tested everything -
- No voltage on blue (Looks like I wrote these down backwards)
- 67v on violet/yellow
- 25.5v on the red wire
- 25.5v on the grey wire
- 25.5v on the brown wire

I am having a hard time reading the wiring diagram though. Looking at the wiring diagram I attached, it appears the brown-blue should connect to the grey wire to the relay and to the diode, then directly to the red wire. Brown wire should connect to red through the 100 ohm resistor.

But looking under my playfield, appears brown and brown-blue are directly connected to each other, run to the diode to the red wire, then through the resistor to the grey wire.

Sorry, I know just enough to be dangerous and am really trying to understand what I'm reading here. Everything works fine and it seems I just need to replace the coil and wire it just like the existing one is, but trying to further my knowledge at the same time.

Wiring (resized).JPGUnder playfield (resized).jpg
#9 3 months ago

It's great you want to learn. To me it looks like the grey and brown wire colors are reversed. I'm at work and can't double check this on my machine, but I think the labels are incorrect on the diagram. The soldering looks to be factory. The wiring on the relay and resistor board looks correct.

#10 3 months ago

Yeh, wouldn't shock me if the diagram is wrong. Appreciate the help, let me know how yours looks whenever you get time. I agree, all looks factory.

#11 3 months ago
Quoted from PatD:

let me know how yours looks whenever you get time.

Mine looks exactly like yours, so I'm certain that the diagram is labeled incorrectly. Other then that it looks good to me.

#12 3 months ago

Great, thanks for checking! I feel better knowing it wasn't me! Wonder how many other schematics are wrong in the book!

#13 3 months ago
Quoted from PatD:

Great, thanks for checking! I feel better knowing it wasn't me! Wonder how many other schematics are wrong in the book!

Alot....on some pages of the Getaway manual, they didn't even spell "Getaway" correctly.

#14 3 months ago
Quoted from robertmee:

Alot....on some pages of the Getaway manual, they didn't even spell "Getaway" correctly.

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