Need help. Williams EM. Everything serviced but now no ball kickout

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#1 3 years ago

OP

???

loomis

Inactive member

4y 13,650 58 1

Hello. 1969 Williams Paddock.

I got the entire machine restored and it worked great. I did it all: repaired and stripped and repainted the cabinet, sealed the backglass, replaced several bad coils, disassembled the four stepper units and cleaned them and put in new springs etc, same with the score reels, and I cleaned most of the switches in the machine, rebuilt the flippers and replaced all the bulbs and rubbers, removed the lock relay, fixed some broken solder joints, rewired a new power switch, etc.

Again, the machine worked perfectly for awhile. Now all of a sudden the machine starts up, the motor turns, the score reels reset, the ball count resets, the playfield activates and all items on the playfield work, but then there is no start ball kickout. And when you drain a ball it does not register the ball loss and kick out the next ball either.

I'm ok mechanically, but I just don't really understand the schematic, so I'm stuck, not knowing if this is a motor switch stack problem or a relay problem somewhere, or what?

Reminder, I'm not great with these EM schematics, so go easy on me lol. Thanks!

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#2 3 years ago

DOC

drsfmd

Pinside member

10y 76,550 3,156 108

OP
Quoted from loomis:
but then there is no start ball kickout. And when you drain a ball it does not register the ball loss and kick out the next ball either.

I'd start with the outhole switch. It's probably open or dirty.

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#3 3 years ago

???

currieddog

Pinside member

Springfield, MA

7y 63,550 3,312 6

This is the circuit. I would start by checking the make/break on the Outhole relay to start, and if it's not that work your way in thru the Ball Index relay sw. and the three score motor sw.

Capture (resized).png

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#4 3 years ago

OP

???

loomis

Inactive member

4y 13,650 58 1

I am pursuing troubleshooting the section posted above now. Will report back in a couple days. Thanks.

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#5 3 years ago

MJG

Mikala

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 78,800 1,392

Have a look at the score motor and see if it is properly setting upon stop. I had the exact same problem on my paddock, and it was just a timing issue with the score motor. The score motor was stopping a fraction off causing the switches not to properly close.

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1

#6 3 years ago

???

ringonu

Pinside member

Miamisburg, OH

3y 34,300 67 3

Not sure if yours has one but my machine did the exact same thing. It was actually the bonus unit not resetting to home. Once that was cleaned and adjusted it's kicking out no problem. Good luck on it.

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1

#7 3 years ago

OP

???

loomis

Inactive member

4y 13,650 58 1

Quoted from Mikala:
Have a look at the score motor and see if it is properly setting upon stop. I had the exact same problem on my paddock, and it was just a timing issue with the score motor. The score motor was stopping a fraction off causing the switches not to properly close.

Bingo. The first switch stack on the score motor towards the front of the machine. I had taken it off before and cleaned the switch contacts.

Two things could have gone wrong here. I'm not sure which. But 1) the switch stack has two different sets of screw holes close to each other on metal score motor frame. It's possible I screwed the switch stack back in to the wrong set of holes, which then moved the switch stack a little bit too far forward, and I didn't notice, which would have caused the timing to be off. It's hard to see if all the switch stacks are lined up. Of course this then doesn't really explain how everything was working fine, and then stopped all of a sudden, if the stack was half a centimeter off the entire time. Or, 2) I also noticed that the entire switch stack had a bit of a Tower of Pisa lean to it, despite being tightened down. I re-straightened the stack and screwed it back down as well.

So it was either 1 or 2 or both, but either way it's working again. Thank you.

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#8 3 years ago

MJG

Mikala

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 78,800 1,392

OP
Quoted from loomis:
Bingo. The first switch stack on the score motor towards the front of the machine. I had taken it off before and cleaned the switch contacts.
Two things could have gone wrong here. I'm not sure which. But 1) the switch stack has two different sets of screw holes close to each other on metal score motor frame. It's possible I screwed the switch stack back in to the wrong set of holes, which then moved the switch stack a little bit too far forward, and I didn't notice, which would have caused the timing to be off. It's hard to see if all the switch stacks are lined up. Of course this then doesn't really explain how everything was working fine, and then stopped all of a sudden, if the stack was half a centimeter off the entire time. Or, 2) I also noticed that the entire switch stack had a bit of a Tower of Pisa lean to it, despite being tightened down. I re-straightened the stack and screwed it back down as well.
So it was either 1 or 2 or both, but either way it's working again. Thank you.

I’ll expand a little on what I discovered. I could play 10 games with no problems, then all of a sudden it was every new game. I discovered that the score motor didn’t always do a 360. Some PF switches only cause the score motor to turn 180, so if my ball drained during one of those 180 turns, it would not kick out.
....and yes, you were right, it was that switch stack also on mine. I just didn’t have time to look into the machine last night to tell you which one. Congratulations on finding the problem.

By loomis

3 years ago

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