Need help troubleshooting Gorgar

(Topic ID: 214087)

Need help troubleshooting Gorgar


By millionpoints

3 months ago



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  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 78 days ago by zacaj
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 months ago

I picked up a non-working Gorgar through craigslist about 5 years ago.
I worked on it quite a bit and got it running when I first got it. The restoration/repairs took a back seat to some life events after about a year into it. I recently got the bug again and I'm looking for help to properly troubleshoot and get this machine back to 100%.

For reference, I'm running a rottendog MPU and an X-pin power supply, both purchased new. I have reseated all connectors, but haven’t replaced any yet.

The game currently plays OK start to finish, except for these switches (with switch matrix numbers):
-'4' stand up target (33)
-right out lane (34)
-'E' rollover (35)
-Right kicker (36)
-all jet bumpers pop but do not score points (37, 38, 39)
-stand up targets behind both drop target banks (22, 40)
-Magnet switch works but intermittently sticks for several seconds before releasing the ball (23)

The switch matrix diagram shows the affected switches fall on:
column 5 green-black (33-40)
row 6 white-blue (22)
row 7 white-violet (23)

switch test shows '08' in ball in play display. Will not cycle through any switches and skips to test 4.

During solenoid test,
-14 credit knocker
-16 coin lockout
-21 right kicker
Do not respond.

Upon further inspection, 14 and 16 both have cut wires and the coils look fried. Right kicker seems to have a broken diode, and has a different type of coil (sg-23 850 dc) than the left side (a2-23 750 dc).

I’m guessing it’s the one that currently works, but which is the correct coil to use for the kickers? Also, would 14 and 16 be related to the switch issue?

During test 3,
Shows '08' in ball in play display. Will not cycle through any switches and skips to 'test' 4. What is causing this?

I’m building a parts list and clearly there are coils needing replacement, and I’m sure switches as well. But I’m sure there might be something I’m missing. Any help is greatly appreciated.

#2 3 months ago
Quoted from millionpoints:

Shows '08' in ball in play display. Will not cycle through any switches and skips to 'test' 4. What is causing this?

What do you mean it skips?

It'll always show the lowest number closed switch, so see if switch number 8 is stuck closed

Quoted from millionpoints:

Also, would 14 and 16 be related to the switch issue?

No. Coin lockout isn't really necessary, I'd just leave it clipped. It's supposed to be on most of the time so they cook often

Quoted from millionpoints:

I’m guessing it’s the one that currently works, but which is the correct coil to use for the kickers?

According to the parts manual it's a SG1-23-850DC http://www.planetarypinball.com/reference/partsmanuals/WMS_Parts_1980/files/mobile/index.html#94

It's possible your broken diode has damaged the driver for it on the board, fyi.

Quoted from millionpoints:

column 5 green-black (33-40)

Check if you have continuity from that column on the playfield back to the driver board.

#3 3 months ago

Link schematics in your first post as a courtesy -- put up a snipet of the switch matrix map... get more help that way.
-mof

1 week later
#4 3 months ago

Hey zacaj and mof, thanks so much for your input. I finally had some time to work on this...

I have attached a photo of the switch matrix. My apologies. I checked from all switches on column 5 back to the board for continuity and they all registered. Also, all the switches on that column were open. I must apologize again for misspeaking. The broken diode on the right kicker is on the coil, not the switch. all the diodes on the switches are in working order. I didn't realize that the switch test was different from the solenoid test in that it doesn't cycle through each switch rather than just showing the first switch showing closed. This also interests me, since from the switch matrix diagram, it looks like the first switch is 09? Also, I only checked the green/black wires for continuity, but should I also be looking for continuity on the return wires as well?

IMG_0394 (resized).jpg

#5 3 months ago
Quoted from millionpoints:

The broken diode on the right kicker is on the coil,

Did you test that diode with a multimeter?Is it the switches that are acting up or is it the coils?

#6 3 months ago
Quoted from millionpoints:

This also interests me, since from the switch matrix diagram, it looks like the first switch is 09?

Maybe it's one of the cabinet switches

#7 3 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Maybe it's one of the cabinet switches

Yeah could very well be...To the OP,What is the game doing now?Any update??

#8 3 months ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Yeah could very well be...To the OP,What is the game doing now?Any update??

As of right now, the game is playing the same way as described in my original post.

Quoted from pinmike:

Did you test that diode with a multimeter?Is it the switches that are acting up or is it the coils?

pinmike So far, I have checked all of the diodes on all switches in question with a multimeter. They all seem to be in working order.

To answer your second question, I think it could be a combination? I want to believe its just the switches, since all the pop bumper coils are firing, but not scoring points. However, the right kicker is not firing OR scoring points.

Quoted from zacaj:

Maybe it's one of the cabinet switches

You are the man, zacaj! I checked the cabinet switch diagram and switch 8 was the hi score reset. I switched it off and now test 3 shows '22', which is the GOR drop target standup. The diode on the switch works, and the switch is open. I wonder if the wiring on that drop target bank is the suspect? all three drop targets drop and reset well enough.

#9 3 months ago

Did you test it with your DMM?

#10 3 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Did you test it with your DMM?

I did, and when I went to inspect it after lifting the playfield, a wire from one of the leads came off! The switch tested good, so I re-soldered the wire, and it’s good to go. Switch test is blank now, but the magnet still sticks and all of column 5 is still out.

#11 3 months ago

Does the magnet switch stick in the switch test?

I would assume a board issue for the column 5 problem. Do you have any others you could swap?

Alternately, try removing the pins in the connectors for columns 5+6 and swap them. See if the switches in column 5 register correctly in column 6.

#12 88 days ago

zacaj the magnet does still stick in test mode. Unfortunately I don’t have any extra boards to switch out. I have a Time warp with original boards, but gorgar has a rottendog 327 mpu. I’ll try swapping column 5+6 pin connectors this afternoon and report back. Really appreciate the help!

#13 88 days ago

If it sticks in switch test then I'd assume it's an actual physical problem with the switch. Take it apart and clean it.

If you still have the original gorgar roms you could swap your time warp boards in. Actually even with the time warp roms, you could still use the switch test without a problem. It's fine to have the time warp roms/boards in gorgar as long as you don't start a game. (even the it'd just get very confused)

1 week later
#14 78 days ago

So I went to swap column 5 and 6 last week, but in the process ended up breaking the column 6 terminal connector. I ordered replacements which came in this week. Replaced the terminal connector and tried the swap yesterday. At first, the 4 target and both right side rollovers were working, but everything from the right kicker down would not work. Switch test showed no switches closed. When I swapped them back, neither column 5 or 6 work in game now. Would I be correct in assuming there’s something happening with the right kicker since it doesn’t work in either scenario? At first I thought I did a crap job replacing the terminal connector, but i tested for continuity and it’s working. Did something on column 5 short column 6 when I swapped? At this point I’m certain the board needs work, but I’d hate to have the work done without fixing what’s causing the short. As for the magnet, the switches for the coil were the culprit. Gave the switches a good cleaning and it’s working now no problem.

#15 78 days ago

When you say the 5 target and rollovers were 'working' after the swap, do you mean in switch test? When testing the kicker and pop bumpers, did you test it by pressing the rubber/skirt (and if so did they fire?), or by manually closing the secondary switch under the playfield?

As for neither column working, you say you tested for continuity, but to where? If you just tested to the pin in the plug it could be not making connection to the board itself. The pins on the board could also have bad solder connections (can't hurt to reflow them, especially if you have the board out). When checking continuity, do it from the switch itself all the way to the resistor on the board. R208 and 208 for columns 5+6 respectively. At least one side of the resistor (probably the right side) should have continuity

#16 78 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

When you say the 5 target and rollovers were 'working' after the swap, do you mean in switch test? When testing the kicker and pop bumpers, did you test it by pressing the rubber/skirt (and if so did they fire?), or by manually closing the secondary switch under the playfield

I’m sorry zacaj I realize that I’m not being specific enough about what I had done. Please allow me to clarify. After I swapped column 5 and 6, I turned the machine on and started a game. I followed the switch matrix and closed each switch on column 5 starting with the ‘4’ standup target, then the right outlane, then the ‘E’ rollover. All three lit up and scored points. I checked the kicker by pressing the rubber. It scored no points and the coil did not fire. The jet bumpers all popped but did not score points. I did everything here above the playfield. I stopped there, shut down and swapped the wires back. I turned it back on, started another game and repeated the process, all of the column 5 switches are still not registering and now all of the column 6 switches aren’t registering either. After all of this, I went back to the switch test with the wires in their correct places and the switch test shows no closed switches and none of the switches on either column register when I press them.

#17 78 days ago

So when you say you closed every switch on column 5, do you mean that you closed what would be that switch in column 6? Eg, to make the 4 standup register while they're swapped, you'd have to hit the G drop target? Otherwise I'm confused as to how they were registering while swapped...

Alright, so, the above-playfield switches for the kickers and pops aren't actually part of the matrix, and aren't read by the MPU. They go straight to the transistors on the driver board to fire the coils. When the coil fires, there's a second switch under the playfield that gets closed, and that's the one that's in the matrix. So since the pops fired, the secondary switch was then also picked up on the matrix. Since the kicker isn't even firing, you've got a separate issue there either with the switches, the connectors, or the driver board to deal with.

As for neither column registering, I guess we'll need to sort that out first. I assume the other columns still work? Hopefully we can narrow this down somewhat once you check continuity to the resistors on the driver board. I'd also double check that you put the pins back in the right order.

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