(Topic ID: 178947)

Need help to get a couples Countdown working!

By Euchrid

7 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by pinwiz_pa
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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cdmatrix (resized).JPG

#1 7 years ago

Ok, so first off, I'm not a talented tech but can fix some stuff and I'm not out trying to make money off doing so. So with that said, here is the story:

My son had a news article done on him regarding pinball. An older couple saw that and wrote me a letter (yes, a letter lol) telling me that they read the paper and saw that we had pinballs and wanted to know if I could call them about their game. I did and they explained that they owned a Countdown for many years but that it did not work and that they wanted to get it working for the grandkids. I told them I wasn't a tech guy but that I would be happy to come out and look at it for them to see what I could do, no charge. They told me that they had paid two other people over the last few years who ultimately left without getting it working.

So, when I got there I learned that one of those guys had installed a new mpu for it so that was good. Nevertheless, many switches were out, vuk not working, pop bumper binding, gi out and game was scoring whenever you hit the flipper. The scoring issue was easy, just a closed switch where a tech had put new rubbers in and neglected to adjust the switch. Once that switch was opened about half of the switches started working again. I got the gi up with just replacing a fuse. The vuk was fixed also when the switch was opened. Pop bumper is no longer binding with a new coil sleeve.

So, the last issue is a few remaining switches that would not do anything. I couldn't figure it out and the owner said "no biggie, the game plays with that and we haven't had it running for years, its good enough." So I put the ball back in, closed it up and played a game....the game played well but when it drained the darn trough switch was also not registering so the game did not know to end the ball and kick a new one out. Crap, it's still unplayable. So, I spent a few hours trying to trace wires, looking for shorts or other closed switches. But could not. Interestingly, when the tilt bob was grounded it ended the ball, counted bonus and fed a new one, as if the trough switch was triggered. Everything around the tilt mech looked normal. So now, the couple has a Countdown where the trough, two center rollovers, three random, 3 Drop targets (one each on three of the four banks) and the left outlane switch do not work. I also tried moving a known working switch to the trough to no avail.

This couple was older and super sweet. They insisted on giving my son money for our work despite me saying "I didn't fix it so don't worry about it" and they clearly loved this pinball. They've had two techs out over the last few years, described to me how hard they've looked for other people who could fix it for years and how happy they were that I responded to their letter. I really want to help them and see that they and their grandkids can enjoy this game. It's gotta be an easy fix, if I can just find it. The biggest issue is that I'll have to travel about 30 minutes to get there so it's not as if I can just look at it and try one thing, then later another and so on. I'm hoping that pinside can come to my rescue and help me help them.

Any ideas?

#2 7 years ago
Quoted from Euchrid:

...when the tilt bob was grounded it ended the ball, counted bonus and fed a new one, as if the trough switch was triggered. Everything around the tilt mech looked normal. So now, the couple has a Countdown where the trough, two center rollovers, three random, 3 Drop targets (one each on three of the four banks) and the left outlane switch do not work.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Switch_Matrix

If you have a manual, see where the non-working switches are in the switch matrix.
If you have no manual, check the colors of the wires on each non-working switch. You may find several share the same wire. You want continuity on the wire all the way from the board to the last switch in the row or column, with no shorts. If a wire is broken at the second of five switches, switches three-five won't work.

There is more to the matrix. A manual would be very helpful. Pinball Resource will probably have one.

#3 7 years ago

Is the new MPU an original or Ni-Wumpf?
Has the cable/harness between the CPU and Driver been replaced or re-pinned?
Check connector pins!!! Big problem with system 1 games (from battery leakage).
Google "gottlieb system 1 repair" lots of good stuff online.
I had a similar problem with the tilt bob (can't remember if it was the same), 2 wires were swapped.

#4 7 years ago

Connectors J7 and J6 which plug into the cpu board probably need to be re-pinned. These are the switch matrix connectors.

#5 7 years ago

It's a new No-Wumph board. I did check all the pins and all seemed fine there.

#6 7 years ago

Thanks Ken, I will repin those. Also, according to the pinwiki, the outhole switch and the two slam tilts are not on the switch matrix typically in GOtsys1s - that change any thinking here?

#7 7 years ago

Here is the switch matrix for count-down showing the outhole switch (highlighted), which is on J7 so a re-pinning may take care of it.

cdmatrix (resized).JPGcdmatrix (resized).JPG

#8 7 years ago

Thanks, Borg, I see that ipdb doesn't have gottleib manuals. Does the manual say which switches go to which number, for example, what is switch 31, etc. I assume all of the other switches may be in the same row, I'd like to figure out which row and which pin that may be before I make a trip back.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from Euchrid:

Thanks, Borg, I see that ipdb doesn't have gottleib manuals. Does the manual say which switches go to which number, for example, what is switch 31, etc. I assume all of the other switches may be in the same row, I'd like to figure out which row and which pin that may be before I make a trip back.

There is usually another picture of the playfield that locates the switch numbers on the game in gottlieb manuals.

#10 7 years ago

You can buy gottlieb manuals from pbresource.com. (of course not your pin so...) Here is the switch numbers diagram.

cdswitches (resized).JPGcdswitches (resized).JPG

#11 7 years ago

Thank you for all the help! It seems, other than the trough switch, all the other switches are on one string: 10, 20, 30, 40, etc. so, if I am reading the matrix is correct that is on A1J7-2? Does that mean the second pin on the A1J7 connector?

#12 7 years ago

yes, pin 2 on A1J7 connector, and I believe pin 1 is on the right when the board is mounted (labeled on the back of the board).

1 month later
#13 7 years ago

Ok, so back to the drawing board. I got out to the couples house list night and replaced the two connectors. Didn't change a thing. All of the switches on the zeros row still don't work. That is to say switches 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and 70 don't work. Switch 00, However, is the "test button" switch. I'm not sure if that works or not. Their coin door has been modified with a little red button installed where the 25 cent plastic is, which is the start button now. What used to be the normal red start button seems to start the menu and the white button on the inside of the coin door (which looks like not a button but what is used normally for a coin door closing switch) also seems to operate the menu. As I said above, I don't own any gottliebs but I assume this setup is totally not factory. (Can anyone post some pics of the front and inside of their countdown?)

So, again, I really want to do some pinball good for this couple and get their game working but I am stumped. They have a brand new altek mpu in it so that can't be the problem (could it? Could they have received a bad board?). If I could just get the trough switch to work at least they could play it with the other switches out. The only other thing that looks fishy to me is the small row of diodes on the inside bottom of the cabinet look to be corroded, especially the very first one. I've read that this might be the test button diode, but have no idea.

Anyone have anything else they think this could be?

#14 7 years ago

With the test switch not operational this is only a guess. The outhole is driven by Q32 (bottom of driver board, 4th transistor counting from the left). Test the transistor and also the diode just to the right of it (CR1). If they test correctly with the power on ground the tab on top to see if the outhole fires. If so that area is probably ok.
Next for the switch issue, I would check the switch diode (1N270, either on the transformer panel or back of playfield) to see if it is blown causing none of the switches in the line to operate.

#15 7 years ago

Thanks pinwiz_pa, I will check those things. I do know the outhole will fire at the beginning of a game and if I triggger the tilt so it's not the solenoid, it's just the trough switch. Does that change any of the above thinking?

#16 7 years ago

I'd check the diodes for the switches pretty good sounds more like a switch problem for sure.

#17 7 years ago

The diode or a broken wire/connection

#18 7 years ago

Just to be clear...

In an early post, you referred to the board as a No-Wumph, and in a later post an Altek. I assume the board is a "Ni-Wumpf"?

The Ni-Wumpf does have a decent diagnostic test menu.
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/manuals/niwumpf.pdf

Can you bring up the Hardware > Switch test and see if the outhole switch does register correctly?

#19 7 years ago

Yes, sorry it's a Ni-Wumpf. I've got plans to go out there again sometime later this month. I was hoping I'd have a list of solid ideas of things to check. So, just so I am clear - which diodes should I be checking? There are none on the switch. I've swapped a known working switch into the trough and it does nothing there.

#20 7 years ago

There are 2 stacks of diodes on this game from what I've seen on the IPD. There are 2 stacked on top of each other underneath the playfield in the upper left corner and also one down on the transformer panel on the left side just to the left of the grounding strip.

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