Joe is "legit" and I have bought several games from him.

Joe is a real guy who sells real machines and yes, paying for a pinball machine BEFORE a shipper sends it to you is pretty much "normal" practice around here. His shipping method is normal as well.

As far as the deal? That's about market rate for a Black Rose.

As far as the pictures? Pinball machines move. Sometimes I'll take pics of a game right when I pick it up before moving it, as I don't know when I'll have a chance to set it up. Sometimes I'll move games around my shop, which can explain the game not always being in the same place. The "different tables" can be explained by the fact that some folks, including Joe, tend to buy and sell a ton of machines. Also don't call them "tables" please. Pet peeve.

As far as the feedback? I guess you can look around for a seller with shittier and less "gushy" feedback if you'd like but don't see why that would be preferable. There's a guy Choggard in IL who may fit the bill for you if you want the superior confidence supplied by shitty feedback.

You asked for specific photos, he needs some time to go take them, that's what a "good seller" would do.

I ask for a pic with a local newspaper included on the game. But yea the broken english is suspect

There's also a guy named Gorf in california that uses lolipop pictures in his ad, and then ships heavily routed games.

The best way to avoid getting scammed is to buy in person, cash on the glass. Op If you buy this pin, buy a cliffy protector for that cannon. It'll cover up the existing wear and prevent further wear to that area.
http://www.passionforpinball.com/BlackRose.htm

Cab has fade and around cannon has wear which is common for this title.

If that's "broken English" than about 70 percent of Pinsiders are suspected scammers.

An English graduate program this place is not.

Joe is good 2 go

In the ad description it states rare diamond plate version. Every single BR was diamond plated. So there's that. Seems misinformed and very ambitious in the ad. One tactic may be to low ball him and see what he says. A legit seller would not budge much on a decent 2500 BR. Just sayin.

I have heard bad about Gorf, but I got a sweet Pinball Magic from him years ago.

I would never buy a used pinball machine without seeing it in person.Never

I don’t know Joe. But i think you should consider it from his (or any other sellers) perspective. Your account was activated yesterday, your location is hidden, zero feedback (of course account is new) and one forum post (this one). Any other day it would be the seller posting a similar thread.

Now you could be the coolest pinsider with the highest level of integrity out there. We all stated new at one point. But your current profile is not one that most people would ship to without secure payment up front. No offense intended.

Paypal everybody on Pinside 10 bucks and you'll have us eating out of your hands.

Honestly, if this your first pin I’d look local... unless you’re confident in your ability to do repairs. Find a local a pinhead who may be willing to go visit a used pin sale with you and have a look. First purchase out of state, no experience. Save that for your second or third purchase as they are around the corner if the first one goes smooth

Here’s the forum where Gorf scammed a buyer in PA, and gave everyone on Pinside the finger.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bad-seller-alert-gorf

He is asking you to pay via "friends and family." That is a huge red flag and is what scammers always ask for. He is asking you to lie and say the money changing hands is not for a product. If it is a scam, PayPal will NOT help you get your money back. If you pay regular PayPal you can get a refund if you get scammed. I would never buy something if the seller asks for this.

A bit off topic, but is anyone concerned when they see 78 games listed, but only five sold? I know pins can be listed in multiple places. But it always seems a bit suspect when lots of games are listed and only a few sold.

People dodging paying the Pinside fee for selling games.

Maybe the wording is a tribute to BLACK_ROSE

And none of the other 73 in his collection, so its not that they don’t actually sell. So what Isochronic said...

There is an option for “sold elsewhere” too rather than “not sold / decided to keep”. But after several dozen times someone might catch on lol.

Mrzone where r u located?

The seller is probably fine, but if he’s a volume seller, you’ll probably end up disappointed in the condition of your game.

People who buy and sell games as an everyday thing don’t look at games the way most other people in our hobby do. Because it’s a business for them, and they’re no nonsense about it. They know someone will buy, somewhere, that’s less educated and less picky, so they won’t tell you all the blemishes. Partly because they won’t tell you anything you haven’t asked, but also because to them, it’s no big deal.

What I see as a bruised - albeit working - game they see as “a solid player”. And they’ll charge you full market for what should be a nicer quality game.

I’d keep looking for your first game. Find a good seller that plays pinball for fun and cares about the quality of their games. We’re everywhere.

Friends and family shouldn’t be any different than “cash on the glass”, cash and carry ...but if the buyer hasn’t seen the game in person, buyer beware.

This would definitely help.

MrZone
I sent you a pm

If you pay with PayPal and choose the Credit Card option it does not matter whether you use FF or not. Your CC will back you up on fraud.

Because you’re being a bit over the top and seemingly needy. It’s a bit ironic you’re picking apart his “history” on pinside while you yourself have zero history and are brand new. To me as a seller, that’s a big red flag.

Offer to use escrow.com and that you’ll cover the fees. That way you’re both protected.

If a potential buyers starts trying to make wacky demands, I'm going to think they're just wasting my time. At $2500, a decent BR probably won't take too long to sell.

Ditto

MrZone as in the adult animator??

I understand this is your first transaction but you do come off a very skittish buyer. People do not like selling a game to someone they think will need their hand held later on.

They want to sell and forget. That’s why it’s so damn hard to buy from big operators and such. They’re so used to having people that can’t fix simple things that even if you are knowledgeable and ask reasonable questions they may worry about the consequences and move on.

As other said, you only joined a day or so ago. And you’re going in deep. Just relax and find a decent seller who’s a passionate collector and you’ll be fine. Also just choose the nearest large city to you and make your location available. It’s super annoying to try giving advice to someone who you’ve got zero idea where they are. Even if it’s just the Capitol of your state

Ok, sounds to me Joe honored your request,

So you need to decide in a quick manner if you want to complete the transaction, otherwise tell the seller you changed your mind

Because you aren't likely the only interested buyer.

As others have said you have zero history, nothing the seller can feel confident about.

Yet he is giving you an opportunity!

As the saying goes: sh*t or get off the pot

A quick note on this-

There is a pinsider here that has a physical retail shop, an Ebay business, and presence here. Pinball is his business, so he is out to sell by trying to sell in different ways. Said seller often times offers up games/products here that are also for sale thru his other sales avenues. If he sells a game at his retail storefront or eBay, or his other sales avenues, then the listing of the game here goes to 'archived'. It does not mean he's trying to circumvent pinside donations, it means he sold the game thru other routes. So you can have a lot of games listed that show up as 'unsold' without scamming pinside on donations.

I'd put it in the "fucking weird" category myself.

Best of luck on the buy!

This is the part I have a problem with. Even If I'm sure the dude is legit it doesn't matter, but friends and family costs me extra money that the seller in return is not having to pay. And on a pinball machine it can be a tidy sum. But I'll do it for smaller items if the price is right.

And before anybody tries to lay out the F+F guilt trip, once you communicate with anybody, some relationship has formed and gifts can be given back and forth just like exchanging X-mas presents even if some of it is money.. If paypal doesn't like it, they should do away with it.

Don’t F with F&F or paypal will F you in the A!

When someone uses paypal to buy something from me F+F or not, then I'm stuck with that money in the account and can only get $1000 a month out unless I use it. But then I can gift it out no charge to me. But on large amounts beware!

One time I sold a machine not using F+F, so they got their cut, and tried to gift it all out and they froze it and I had to jump through hoops to get any of it out.

Does crazy Levi get some Crazy commission

Good luck with the sale