(Topic ID: 99707)

Need Help Bad! EM Start up

By smersh

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

Please help me if you can.
I have a jungle queen that wants to come back to life. I have fixed bad wiring. Jones plugs, switches and contacts. I have checked contacts with a continuity on a meter.
The machine starts up It WILL NOT start with the credit button even with credits on the reel.
The game over, 1st ball and the tilt hold relay's are energized. The hold relay when manually pressed will trip the game over relay and the tilt when pressed will trip the tilt hold relay.
What am I missing?? please help I want to play this baby.

#2 9 years ago

Check the zero credit switch on the credit stepper assembly...iirc it should be open if there are credits showing...

#3 9 years ago

is that in the backbox?

#4 9 years ago

Also the 1, 2, 3 play lights are always on

#5 9 years ago
Quoted from smersh:

is that in the backbox?

Yes as part of the credit meter.

#6 9 years ago

its open

#7 9 years ago

Switch contacts can check good with a meter, but sometimes there is another path in the circuit that will give you a false reading. CLEAN all contacts & make sure the switches have enough tension to make a reliable connection.
I had the same situation & it turned out to be a flakey contact on the credit wheel.
I ran a heavy paper strip soaked with 91% alcohol between each set of contacts to remove any traces of grease, & then refaced each switch with a flexstone.
Also look for missing switch contacts - it happens.

#8 9 years ago

thank you

#9 9 years ago

could really use a detail photo or schematic view of the score motor

#10 9 years ago

Its a good investment when working on any EM to have an original schematic. The Pinball Resource sells full size copies for around $15.

#11 9 years ago

yup that's what i'm finding out. This has always been a good source for me to get help, but help has slowed down on this site. But this baby of machine really does need a schematic and someone that can read it. I have a target alpha and royal flush schematic.

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from smersh:

The machine starts up It WILL NOT start with the credit button even with credits on the reel.

Try here → http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#check

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from smersh:

Also the 1, 2, 3 play lights are always on

Does the Coin Unit stepper reset to the zero position? It controls how many players are active (and the number of players lights).

If you trip the left coin mech switch, does a game start? (not the credit button)

If you manually trip the Start relay, does a game start?

#14 9 years ago

Right now the stepper does not reset. it works when I manually step it up or down. It tries to move when I activate, I believe when I press the start relay, but then it is like it accurate between the one and two player.
The coin mech switch does not start game.
The start relay will not start the game, it will make the motor turn.
She is almost there. Last night I took a good look at the AX and Bx relays with the bottom panel out. all switches look good. I made sure the were contacting and clean. I MEAN i really looked and adjusted. With that said... those two relays are sensitive.
If I activate the ax and de-energize the bx, the credit button will start game but no ball kick or pf activity.

#15 9 years ago

So it sounds like there are still a few issues to work out. Here's the general startup sequence (copied from Mr. Pinball):

1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. 'S' relay starts the motor running.
4. 'AX' relay actuates and the 'coin' unit subtracts through switches on 'AX' and 'S' relays and switches on motor 4C and motor 1A. 'Q' relays de-energizes when 'AX' relay operates.
5. When 'AX' relay actuates, the reset relays 'Z1' and 'Z2' are energized in sequence by rivets on the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay.
5a. Motor 1A steps the 'Player' unit, through switches on 'AX' relay and 'P5B', to the 20th position energizing 'Z1'.
5b. When 'Z1' is energized the 1st and 2nd player score units reset to zero through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A and 'Z1'. When all score units of the 1st and 2nd player are at zero the player unit steps to the 21st position through a normally closed switch on 'Z2' and normally closed switches on all score units of the 1st two players, actuating 'Z2' relay. The 3rd and 4th player score units now reset through switches on motor 1A, motor 4A, and 'Z2'. The player unit continues to its zero position through the closed switches on 'Z1', 'Z2', 'P5B' and motor 1A until 'P5B' opens.
6. When 'P5A' on the player unit closes, 'AX' and 'BX' relays reset through motor 4C and switches on 'DX', and 'R' relays. The reset cycle is now complete.
7. Inserting additional coins or pushing the replay button will step the 'coin' unit through switches on 'DX' and 'S' relays and a switch on motor 4C. The replay button circuit opens when 'coin' unit is on 4th position.
8. Place the ball in the out hole. The ball return switch closes and completes the circuit to 'O' relay through the normally closed switches of 'DX', 15th position 'Bonus' unit, motor 1C, motor 2B, 'Q', 'AX', and 'S' relays. 'O' relay locks-in. Through switches on motor 4C, 'BX', and 'O' the ball return coil actuates kicking the ball onto the runway.
9. The remaining balls that enter the outhole are kicked across the trough switch which pulls in 'P' relay. 'P' relay runs the motor. Switches on 'E', 'DX', motor 2C, 'P', 'BX', and motor 1A advances the 'Player' unit the required number of steps determined by the 'Player' unit switches and the 'Coin' unit.
10. The 3-5 ball adjustment changes the number of balls played per game. The third or fifth ball leaving the playfield will trip the 'last ball' relay 'BX' through switches on 'E', 'DX', rivets on the player unit disc, and 'O' relay.

So if you're manually activating S, but AX is not then activating, that's a good place to start. And getting the Coin Unit to reset.

Once you have the schematic for the game, then you can see the switch from S that activates AX and debug from there. And see the path to reset the Coin Unit.

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