Need advice on removing playfield wiring harness.

I've decided to take the plunge and remove the wiring harness on my F-14. It seems that there are probably 3 separate harnesses all strapped together with white clips screwed into the playfield.

Is it smarter to just remove them all together and keep them in their retaining clips, or to remove them separately? I have enough room in my workshop that I can keep them separated in layers. I think if I remove them separately it will be easier to document where everything goes. But getting everything back together might be more challenging.

What do you pros do? Thanks for the advice.

#2 9 years ago

PBP

PopBumperPete

Pinside+ Frequent

12y 99,300 4,034 8

Why?

are you planning on shampooing the wires?

#3 9 years ago

TSR

TaylorVA

Reese Rails

13y 116K 8,893 11 7

I cut the harness from the coils and remove the entire thing. I then will seperate before cleaning. I replace zip ties and then reinstall in the following order: switch harness, GI and finally flashers and coils. Good times have fun.

#4 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

I'm not going to shampoo the wires, but will wipe them down. My soldering skills are imperfect, so will be leaving all the targets, switches, and coils on their wires, as much as possible.

The underside of the F-14 is a real rats nest, which is why I thought if I removed the wiring harness in layers I might have an easier time of it.

#5 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Just leave them all together.

#6 9 years ago

PJM

PjM

Inactive member

Burnsville, MN

11y 50,400 350 3 12

I am big on taking pictures and labeling with the wires.image.jpg

#7 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

Okay will leave them all together. Current pic count is up to 80, just on the right side. Using blue painter's tape to label, and numbering all the lights on their bases and on the board.

Looking nice PJM. Haven't built a rotiserrie yet, next project if I am successful at this one....

#8 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-quick-and-dirty-rotisserie-guide

OP
Quoted from boneman91:
Haven't built a rotiserrie yet, next project if I am successful at this one....

Having a rotisserie will cut your assembly time by 6 to 8 hours.

Do NOT start without building one. You can't get those 8 hours of your life back.

#9 9 years ago

???

clone97

Frozen

Unknown

9y 5k 136

That's not entirely true... I build mine face down on a sheet of glass, flip it over and populate the top. FAST AND PAINLESS. having everything you need is the key.

#10 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

You still have to gap all your switches, adjust the pop's switches, do your flipper alignments, aim your kickouts.....a ton of time saved with a rotisserie, even after the playfield is populated.

Do NOT start without building one.

#11 9 years ago

???

clone97

Frozen

Unknown

9y 5k 136

Ya flip it over on a jig, You can build one if you want to be cool or whatever, But "NEED ONE"?? not-so-much....Again the key is have everything you need to just do it and get it back in the cab.

#12 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

Will probably work on making a benchtop version. I've got a few low sawhorses that might work....

#13 9 years ago

FRX

Frax

Pinside member

Conyers, GA

12y 103K 16,662 2 9

Quoted from vid1900:
You still have to gap all your switches, adjust the pop's switches, do your flipper alignments, aim your kickouts.....a ton of time saved with a rotisserie, even after the playfield is populated.
Do NOT start without building one.

Three swaps in... no rotties here.

By FAR the most difficult one was Jackbot, where I dumped the harness in the cabinet with everything attached. Getting things pulled back up onto the playfield to where the harnesses were adequately supported with all that weight of the mechs and lamps and crap was a nightmare. Had I not been working solo it would have taken me half the time, just to have someone hold up the two flipper plates high enough to let me screw them in first. ugh!

*EdiT* I still don't get how you aim kickouts without changing where the screw holes are.

Shuttle and Crescendo? No rotisserie needed or wanted. Was super easy to use flat surfaces to mount the stuff on the back, then put them in the cabinet and do the rest there.

I will NOT do another DMD swap with the harnesses left in the cabinet connected. Period. I don't give a flying crap if I have a rotisserie or not. It didn't take any longer to gap switches or adjust pop bumper bodies or any of that....there wasn't anything damaged because it was in the bottom of the cab...it was just simply a pain the rear to lift and support everything. BLEH!!!!

#14 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

What I've done is use short bar "Quick Clamps" around the edge of the playfield, some sticking up, some down. This suspends the playfield above the workbench because the bars of the clamps sit on the bench. Then I get my teenager to help me rotate the the playfield when I need to swap sides. With the clamps pointing both up and down,t here are always some bars for either side of the playfield to rest on. Works pretty well... and since the teen is eating me out of house and home I might as well get some work out of him.

but I would like to come up with a rotisserie, but will need to be bench mounted. I don't have any floor space.

#15 9 years ago

DAZ

rgb635

EZ Lift Pinball

Atlanta, GA

11y 42,650 585 4 8

I am on my 3rd restore and dont use rotisseries. When disassembling the bottom playfield it is best to make sure everything is disconnected and then simply slide it over from the playfield onto a large piece of cardboard. This way you maintain the wire shape memory and mechanism placements much easier than a pile of spaghetti on a work bench!
I like to do all of my upgrades, switch-outs, wire cleaning, new wire ties, etc. with the wire loom in this position and when all done simply slide it back onto the playfield when its ready. I have done it this way both times and it makes it a snap. The wires are like a road map and basically go right back where they should by themselves. Flip the playfield and start on the top. I sit mine on a couple of sets of standard bricks and bubble wrap cushion. Seems to me you would have to attach the majority of the bottom playfield wires & assemblies before you flip it on a rotisserie anyway to keep things from flopping around and straining wires. I think the majority of playfield swaps are done without "rotties" but hey...to each his own.
Wire loom and assemblies on cardboard:
388157-i.jpg

Wire loom and assemblies moved back over onto new playfield:
388155.jpg

#16 9 years ago

DAZ

rgb635

EZ Lift Pinball

Atlanta, GA

11y 42,650 585 4 8

OP
Quoted from boneman91:
What I've done is use short bar "Quick Clamps" around the edge of the playfield, some sticking up, some down. This suspends the playfield above the workbench because the bars of the clamps sit on the bench. Then I get my teenager to help me rotate the the playfield when I need to swap sides. With the clamps pointing both up and down,t here are always some bars for either side of the playfield to rest on. Works pretty well... and since the teen is eating me out of house and home I might as well get some work out of him.
but I would like to come up with a rotisserie, but will need to be bench mounted. I don't have any floor space.

That is a great idea as well..any pics?

#17 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

Will take a pic tonight and upload it. But this is not an original idea. I read it here on pinside a while ago, I think. Can't claim credit for it.

I'll post a pic anyway.

#18 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Before you guys get all crazy, OF COURSE you can do a playfield swap without a rotisserie. No one is ever going to argue that, LOL.

Just like you can shingle a house with hammer and nails, sand a hardwood floor with a handpad, or paint a room with a brush.

But, if you value your time even a little bit, $50 for a rotisserie is going to save you many hours on a single playfield, let alone if you end up doing multiples in the future.

Us pin techs even use a rotisserie when we rebuild a set of pop bumpers. Makes a sucky job go super fast.

#19 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

If I enjoy doing this, there is no doubt in my mind I will make a rotisserie. I do woodworking as well, so could use it for finishing as you suggest, and get double use out of it.

#20 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

OP
Quoted from boneman91:
I do woodworking as well, so could use it for finishing as you suggest, and get double use out of it.

One of the 3 Pinsiders who claim to have invented the black pipe rotisserie, showed me scan of a woodworking book from the 1990s where he had published the plans.

He used it to hold kitchen cabinet doors on the tips of sharpened screws and could finish both sides of the doors at once with no risk of runs like you could have if you hung them vertically.

You can also modify the rotisserie to hold a video camera above the playfield and record your games.

#21 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Another super time saver in playfield swapping is to switch crappy Bally #555 sockets over to #44 sockets.

Of course the common power wire that is soldered to the base of each lamp holder takes a ton of heat/time to get the solder to stick, even with a big 100w iron.

Using adhesive copper foil as the power conductor is super neat, and super fast.

foil power.jpg

#22 9 years ago

TSR

TaylorVA

Reese Rails

13y 116K 8,893 11 7

Are you doing a swap or just cleaning the harness? If just wiping it down I'd leave it and not worth about it.

#23 9 years ago

???

RoyF

Pinside member

Highland Heights, OH

12y 40,900 664

Quoted from vid1900:
Using adhesive copper foil as the power conductor is super neat, and super fast.

So you just lay down the foil on the playfield, and then screw the base of the socket to the playfield thru the foil without soldering the base of the socket to the adhesive copper foil?

What is a good source for ordering that foil?

#24 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Quoted from RoyF:
So you just lay down the foil on the playfield, and then screw the base of the socket to the playfield thru the foil without soldering the base of the socket to the adhesive copper foil?

Yes.

Quoted from RoyF:
What is a good source for ordering that foil?

Amazon or Lobby Hobby.

#25 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

Neat tips Vid. I've done the cabinet door on nails thing for refinishing before, but never thougth to rotisserie it. Will do the tape thing if I ever get a Bally. As you know, the underside of the F-14 has the 555s in a green "circuit board," not free on the playfield. The GI wiring is to 44 sockets. Could I use the copper foil there instead of the braided wire on the original?

Taylor, I'm hoping to do a playfield swap if CPR or PPS ever actually gets it to market. But until then, I"m going to try to restore this playfield. I've actually been able to remove all the inserts except 4 of the blue arrows (they seem to be glued in tougher than the reds) using Vids paint gun technique. And I want to try his painting techniques as well. If I make a mess of it, no real harm done. Has to look better than it does now.

So while I"m going to wipe down the wiring, by removing the harness I was actually able to get at the inserts. And now the playfield is light and easy to move around, and I don't have to worry when I start airbrushing like a maniac.

#26 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

OP
Quoted from boneman91:
As you know, the underside of the F-14 has the 555s in a green "circuit board," not free on the playfield.

You have a game from the latter model run.

The first 1/2 of the run had individual #44 sockets.

OP
Quoted from boneman91:
The GI wiring is to 44 sockets. Could I use the copper foil there instead of the braided wire on the original?

Sure.

#27 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

Didn't know there were two runs to the pin. You are full of amazing knowledge. Thanks.

#28 9 years ago

SAX

Devang

Inactive member

Unknown

9y 6,250 3

A digital camera will be your best friend throughout the entire process. Good luck!

#29 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

Here is my attempt at uploading pictures for the "Quick Clamp Rotisserie" I mentioned previously.
IMG_2647.JPG

Note the quick clamps at each corner. One pointing down and supporting the playfield like legs of a table, and one pointing up.

IMG_2650.JPG

Now I have rotated the playfield, so the clamps that were originally pointing up are now serving as table legs.

Of course, you can easily remove the clamps that are pointing up while you are working on the playfield so that they are out of your way. These clamps are not particularly sturdy, either. You can't pound on the playfield or rub too vigorously, or they may loosen. I usually use more than 4 per side. Finally, these clamps are not cheap. I have about 20 of them from my woodworking hobby. If you go out and buy them just for this, you will certainly spend at least as much money as it takes to build Vid's pipe rotisserie.

(I hope the photos come through okay....}

#30 9 years ago

DAZ

rgb635

EZ Lift Pinball

Atlanta, GA

11y 42,650 585 4 8

OP
Quoted from boneman91:
Here is my attempt at uploading pictures for the "Quick Clamp Rotisserie" I mentioned previously.
IMG_2647.JPG
Note the quick clamps at each corner. One pointing down and supporting the playfield like legs of a table, and one pointing up.
IMG_2650.JPG
Now I have rotated the playfield, so the clamps that were originally pointing up are now serving as table legs.
Of course, you can easily remove the clamps that are pointing up while you are working on the playfield so that they are out of your way. These clamps are not particularly sturdy, either. You can't pound on the playfield or rub too vigorously, or they may loosen. I usually use more than 4 per side. Finally, these clamps are not cheap. I have about 20 of them from my woodworking hobby. If you go out and buy them just for this, you will certainly spend at least as much money as it takes to build Vid's pipe rotisserie.
(I hope the photos come through okay....}

Nice!!! Will definitely use this option.

#31 9 years ago

KSA

boneman91

Inactive member

Yeah, this works pretty well for me. But it does take two people to rotate easily, especially with the wiring harness on. The nice thing is that I can use it with my limited floor space.

#32 9 years ago

???

RoyF

Pinside member

Highland Heights, OH

12y 40,900 664

Quoted from vid1900:
Amazon

I see it comes in various widths. What do you recommend?

#33 9 years ago

MJS

Snux

Pinside member

Maidstone

11y 58,300 703 3

I'd lay money you're going to have to desolder some of that stuff. I just finished up my F14 a couple of months back. I found that there were places were the 3 different looms went *through* each other, so there was no way to separate them without desoldering.

Good luck. Remember that too many photos is almost enough......

#34 9 years ago

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member