I am going to look at an Earthshaker & F-14 locally this weekend.

F-14: Asking $2800
Seller's Description: The F-14 has an upgraded CPU. The machine itself is in near perfect condition and has been fully restored, not shopped. It is also a "prototype" game that they say only 10 of like this were produced. The game has a 1 year warranty.

Earthshaker; Asking $3400
Seller's description to me is: The Earthshaker is one of the nicest I have seen. Cabinet, playfield, and backglass are all 10, fully restored. Electronic upgrades to CPU and other boards and 1 year warranty.

I don't mind paying top dollar for machines in excellent condition, but I wanted to know what others think about the pricing and if they are fair for the condition and restoration work that has been done.

I am not really asking for opinions on the games. I love both of them and they are 2 I would like to add to my collections. I love all the Williams machines from that era.

They are being purchased from a dealer, not a private party. If a good condition F-14 can be found for $2,000, than I don't think that $2800 is really that out of line for one that has been fully restored with and upgraded CPU.

Also not sure about the machine being a "prototype". Are these desirable or is it better to have a final production machine?

Thanks for all the info.

In his email to me he said:
"I have many other games that will be listed on my site. These are all "high end restored" and go for top dollar (3k and up). They also have electronic upgrades to CPU and other boards and carry a 1 year warranty. I can provide references that will tell you that my games are second to none. I am one of the main Tecnicians at the National Pinball Museum, the curator will confirm my statements are accurate."

Like I said, I don't mind paying more for machines in great condition but I also don't want to overpay. I bought my first machine (whirlwind) a few weeks ago. If plays great but after i got it home and really looked at it, there are a lot of things I would like replaced. So for future machines I am going to inspect them much closer.

If these machines really are highly restored and in near perfect condition, are they worth close to what he is asking?

This is his website: http://www.pinball4all.com/repair.php

When I got my machine a few weeks back (from a different dealer), I was not really clear what "shopped" meant.
I go the ww shopped but really was expecting it to be restored (my bad for not doing more research and asking more questions)

So these machines are apparently restored, I know that you have to put a lot of hours into tearing a machine down to the PF but not sure how much a fully restored machine should command over just a good condition shopped machine.

I agree at those prices I will never be able to resell them for near what i payed for them, but at this time I have no intention to sell them.

I am going to see them this weekend and will see what happens. I don't think I will pay those prices unless the machines are pristine.

Thanks, the advice is really appreciated. I am going to take a look at them on Sunday and will keep all of the advice in mind.

If they are high quality restorations and they are in as good a shape as he claims - what would be a fair price for the machines?

Thanks for all the continued responses.

Not really interested in this route, would rather buy one fully restored @ $2800. According to my communication with the seller, this is one like that. It's fully restored.

Great idea, would love to have a fellow pinside member join me if there is anyone in the local baltimore, md area free on Sunday Morning.

The seller told me he is the main tech. at the http://www.nationalpinballmuseum.org/ , so I am sure he knows his stuff.

With the info you provided, I am already going into this knowing they machines are really expensive. So I will have no problem walking away.

Here's the quesition, If these machines are everything the seller claims them to be (i.e. "near perfect restorations") at they then worth what he is asking?

Thanks - I am going to try and get them both for $4500-$5000.
It's worth a slight premium to me to buy them locally and have someone deliver them.
I have back problems and can't move the machines myself.

Thanks again -

This is not a blind buy - they seller is local - so I am going to check them out with all the info you guys have provided. If it's not 100% PF, ramps, target, graphics I should be able to spot that.
Going to look at the electronics to see how clean they are etc....

I do agree he has a premium on the machines but I doubt he just took a rag to the play top. He didn't send photos because I am going to look at them in person.

I have no commitment to buy these, just set up an app. to look at them.

I promise I have not ignored any of your comments and I am not defending the seller, just providing the info he provided me.

Putting aside for now wether or not the seller is truthful. For the sake of discussion lets assume his description is accurate and both machines are fully restored and as close to a 10 as possible. What whould be a fair value?
I figure if they have a full restore then they are worth about $1500 over the avg price - is this accurate? That should put F-14 around $2000 & Earthshaker around $2800
Does that sound right?

Great comments thanks.
Absolutely go ahead an call him.

I really appreciate all the insightful comments to my post.

I prefer to purchase a machine restored and complete that needs no work at all and I am willing to pay the premium for it. If I can get both machines for $4500 I'll take them, any higher and I will have to seriously think about it.

It did speak to someone that knows Larry and did vouch for him. I always tend to trust people until they give me a reason not to. I will take a look on sunday. If I can't strike a deal I will take pictures and post them here for your evaluation.

Thanks!

The don't have an F-14 but they do have an ES.
I think they have more machines then they have on display

That's what i was thinking also, which is why it's a no deal if he does not budge on the prices.

He did provide the curator of the NPM as a reference.

Thanks - the fact you took the time to do this for me really means a lot. It's much appreciated.
It's great that you would do this for a total stranger.

I already have an appointment set up with him, do you think I should still go?
If he is stuck on his prices, then I am wasting my time.

Who are the people that I can contact with high end pin restorations?

I have nothing better to do on sunday and he is only about 1/2 hour from my house so there is no harm in looking, but I agree with you Slate and appreciate yours and other's inputs.
I think my excitement was clouding my judgement

That's what I was thinking but from the info the_pin_family I am not sure if he is willing to go that low - that's less than 1/2 his asking price - I don't want to insult the guy.

Thanks for all the advice. I met with the seller this morning to look at the machines.
We was a very nice guy and I enjoyed speaking with him. He was gracious enough to show me his private collection of 135 machines. It was very impressive. http://www.pinball4all.com/collectionH.php

The machines were like the_pin_family said they were, a very good shop job. PF's were in excellent condition with very little wear. What he basically did was strip the machines and do a very good cleaning. Nothing was really replaced which was surprising. One of the ramps on ES has a crack, and he said you can buy a protector for that (Cliffy). I was thinking why didn't you replace the ramp or install the protector. I just can't understand why he would have stripped the machine and taken everything apart but not replace what was cracked and broken. That makes no sense to me. If you are spending the time to take everything apart, spend a few bucks and replace the parts that need replacing. If asked him about clear coating the PF. He said "That changes the game. The ball slides around instead of rolling" Looking at the PF's they were in very good shape, so that was not really an issue.

One thing that did rub me the wrong was that he said "I told a another guy he can have the Earthshaker for $3,000 unless I got a better offer. If you want it for $3500 it's yours" As a salesman I would never say anything like that to a potential customer.

He also had a Bad Cats for sale. Never seen or played one of those before. It was a fun machine but he wanted $3800 for that also. He had a Dirty Harry machine that he said he was waiting for Clint Eastwood to die and the value to go up before he was selling it.

All things considered, it was worth the 20 min. drive.

I had to internally roll my eyes when he said that.

I saw some more machines later in the day and picked up a BSD & FT.
Both had clear coated play fields, replaced plastics, repainted exteriors etc.

Thanks for the help

PF's were CC'd - there was actually one small defect in the BDS pf that was not fixed before CC but the CC fill it in and it's good and smooth
Cabinets were actually touched up and redecaled.
Solenoids were replaced everything cleaned, broken plastics replaced on both BSD & FT