(Topic ID: 317524)

Need a little help troubleshooting a problem with my WCS-94.

By drsfmd

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 1 year ago by drsfmd
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#1 1 year ago

I posted this in the WCS owners thread, but figured I'd cast a wider net and see what ideas you guys might have.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/world-cup-soccer-94-owners-everyone-welcome/page/151#post-6987221

I recently acquired a WCS in a trade. The game was absolutely filthy, and had gone from many years on location directly into storage. I don't think any bulbs or rubber were ever changed... BUT, it's cleaning up really nicely. I've run into some problems that I'm a little stumped with. I have no flashers in the playfield or backbox. I changed the bulbs and tested them with a bench rig in the actual sockets on the game-- all are good. Someone suggested the interlock switch may be the issue, so I pulled the connectors and cleaned the spade terminals. After doing that, the game will no longer coin up and the coin door adjustment switch set isn't working now. So I suspect the suggestion that the interlock switch is broken is correct... but I'm open to any and all ideas for things I should be looking at.

Here are the things that have been tested:

- All of the test points on the PPB are giving readings within spec.
- I have 20V at J106-5 and J107-6
- All fuses have been tested, both in situ and out of the game.
- I tested voltage on the individual wires connected to the interlock switch... I have 35v at 2 of the terminals, 10v at 2 of the terminals, and no measurable voltage at the other two.

And my questions:
- is there a way to safely bypass the interlock switch (not permanently... just for testing)? If not, I can pull a switch from one of my other games while I wait for a new switch to arrive
- What function does the *other* switch on that bracket have (the manual indicates "memory protection") and could that have anything to do with the problem?
- Do J106-5 and J107-6 go directly to the interlock switch? If so, I need to be looking for breaks in those wires, as there's no 20v at the interlock switch.
- Could the coin door interface board be part of the problem?
- Are there other things I should be checking?

#2 1 year ago

I had a similar issue on my WCS94, and it turned out to be a fried connector. Maybe check and make sure the connectors are OK and don't look burnt? Start with J122 maybe.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from rockwell:

I had a similar issue on my WCS94, and it turned out to be a fried connector. Maybe check and make sure the connectors are OK and don't look burnt? Start with J122 maybe.

The connector at J120 is a little brown from heat, and is on my list of things to repair... but that one is for the GI. I will check J122.

#4 1 year ago

Yeah, mine had...a few connector hacks that didn't work PXL_20210803_185833609 (resized).jpgPXL_20210803_185833609 (resized).jpg

#5 1 year ago

Bump. Any other ideas? Found an old rec.pinball post about voltages at particular pins on the PPB and mine were all correct.

Hoping I can find an interlock switch at Pintastic, and if I can't, I'll order one. What does the other switch do?

Other ideas for things to test? I can't currently get into test mode because of the coin door issue, so maybe some help to resolve that one first?

#6 1 year ago

There are two switches at the coin door.

  1. The switch matrix switch for "Coin Door Closed". This is a SPDT switch that probably has one spade connector cut off. This would be the NC terminal. This is switch 22. There should be two female quick connectors. One GRN-RED. The other WHT-RED. You can call this the "memory protect" switch but it's a switch matrix switch rather than any direct switch so it's unlikely that it actually hardware protects the memory. If it does this then that function is in the ASIC. The software does not allow you to enter diagnostics if the coin door switch is closed. You can disconnect the two quick connectors and this should open the switch. If that still doesn't work then look carefully at the CPU board for potential alkaline damage to the switch matrix circuitry.
  2. The high power interlock switch. This is a DPDT switch that should have two spade connectors cut off. These would be the NC terminals. This interrupts the transformer secondary for the high voltage to the power driver board. There should be four female quick connectors. Two are BLK-YEL. Two are WHT-RED. You can bridge these two connectors to bypass the switch. Some machines also have a "tap" connection that routes wires from the transformer to the coin door interlock switch. You can remove this "tap" connection and also bypass the interlock switch.

If you have +20V at J106 and J107 then the interlock switch is NOT interrupting the high voltage. Check for voltage at the actual flasher bulb sockets. If none of the flashers work then you probably have an interruption somewhere in the wiring. If you're concerned post images of the connectors at J106 and J107. Also post images of the CPU board if you're concerned about that. Descriptions are great but seeing an image is much better.

#7 1 year ago

So... pictures below. Unfortunately, I sort of painted myself into a corner. I pulled the daughterboard with the battery holder to take a picture of the MPU, not thinking about the implications of doing so when the coin door switches aren't working-- so now when the game boots it goes to "factory settings restored" and won't go into attract mode. Which means I can't test the individual flashers in the way you've suggested. I'll need to figure out the coin door switches first. I assume those are tied into the interlock switch as well?

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#8 1 year ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I'll need to figure out the coin door switches first. I assume those are tied into the interlock switch as well?

No, only the high voltage is.

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Unfortunately, I sort of painted myself into a corner. I pulled the daughterboard with the battery holder to take a picture of the MPU, not thinking about the implications of doing so when the coin door switches aren't working-- so now when the game boots it goes to "factory settings restored" and won't go into attract mode.

Focus on getting this working first. You can rule out the physical switches by testing the functionality with the multimeter. It is probably easier to test functionality directly at the board by shorting the pins on J205. See https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#Direct_Switch_Problems for more information.

Quoted from drsfmd:

Which means I can't test the individual flashers in the way you've suggested.

The images you posted show no obvious problem. That's visual inspection. To be sure electronic inspection (multimeter) is required. Focus on the direct switch problem first. This will allow you to get into diagnostics to further test the flasher problem. When you do get into the flasher test see if the flashers in the backbox insert work. These are powered from J106 whereas the playfield flashers are powered from J107.

#10 1 year ago

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Direct_Switch_Problems

Dropping this here for future reference. I’ll do this when I have some time this weekend and report back.

#11 1 year ago

My problem was BR4. Is LED 5 lit? It’s between Cap 11 and the big heat sink for BR 1&2. If not I would definitely check BR 4!

Sorry just read your original post again. It does sound like your problems are with the interlock. Have you tried pulling the spades off the lock?

#12 1 year ago

Ok... some good news to report. The coin door switches are working again! For future reference, at least on this example, the ground wire for the adjustment switches go to the ground for the left coin switch, which then goes into the harness. As I was pulling the whole coin door harness out for further examination, I noticed a wire that moved a little more than it should-- but appeared to be still connected. Once I got it to the bench, I discovered that wire had broken off, and that it was being held in place by the other wire, which it had sort of bonded to over time. Cut the insulation back and started fresh... and the coin door works!

No change of status on the 20V circuit. Again, I have voltage at the PPB test points. Anyone know offhand which jumper on the PPB carries the 20v to the interlock switch? I want to test from that point to confirm that it's working. I suspect it's going to be a similar situation to the coin door-- somewhere along that chain, a wire has broken (probably a ground wire).

So, I'm open for ideas on how to trace that without cutting all of the zip ties off the harness and making a big mess.

Also open to any other ideas for how to troubleshoot the 20V

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Again, I have voltage at the PPB test points. Anyone know offhand which jumper on the PPB carries the 20v to the interlock switch? I want to test from that point to confirm that it's working. I suspect it's going to be a similar situation to the coin door-- somewhere along that chain, a wire has broken (probably a ground wire).

flasher_power.jpgflasher_power.jpg

Red vertical lines go to the coin door interlock switch.

Quoted from DumbAss:

If you have +20V at J106 and J107 then the interlock switch is NOT interrupting the high voltage. Check for voltage at the actual flasher bulb sockets. If none of the flashers work then you probably have an interruption somewhere in the wiring.

If you have +20V at J106 and J107 then the interlock switch is NOT interrupting the high voltage.

This is normal functional (expected) behavior with the coin door CLOSED.

#14 1 year ago

Problem may be on the PPB... I do not have voltage at J016/107 (but again, the test point reads fine).

Quoted from bucky5454:

My problem was BR4. Is LED 5 lit? It’s between Cap 11 and the big heat sink for BR 1&2. If not I would definitely check BR 4!
Sorry just read your original post again. It does sound like your problems are with the interlock. Have you tried pulling the spades off the lock?

LED 5 is lit. I did pull the spade connectors off the switch, and cleaned the switch lugs with a dremel and a brush, but it didn't fix anything.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

Problem may be on the PPB... I do not have voltage at J016/107 (but again, the test point reads fine).

Test point = GOOD.
J107 = BAD.

Problem is on your power driver board (PDB).

flasher_power.jpgflasher_power.jpg

Green = GOOD. Red = BAD. Orange = connections. Magenta = possible bad component.

  1. Take the board out of the machine.
  2. Post an overall image of the front and back of the board.
  3. Post more images (front and back) focused on the upper right quadrant of the board.

Make sure your images are in-focus and well illuminated so things can be seen.

Suspect the big "sand" resistor is open (infinite resistance). Measure continuity (or resistance) across it. It is a 0.12 (R12) Ohm so your multimeter may not be able to give an accurate reading. Essentially you're looking for continuity or open.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Suspect the big "sand" resistor is open

unlike the schematics, the sand resistor is situated before the testpoint. Testpoint TP7 and J107-6 are direct connected to each other.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from zaza:

unlike the schematics, the sand resistor is situated before the testpoint. Testpoint TP7 and J107-6 are direct connected to each other.

Hmmm. You're right. Fortunately I haven't had to mess with that part of a power driver board. In this case then it should be a problem with the traces. There aren't a lot of places where the trace goes. It goes up from the resistor/TP to multiple VIAs to the J107-6.

OP: Check continuity from the TP to J107-6. It has to be broken if you have +20V at the TP but 0V at J107-6.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Check continuity from the TP to J107-6. It has to be broken if you have +20V at the TP but 0V at J107-6.

I will do so and report back. Pulling to boards tonight for NVRAM on the MPU, and preventative maintenance on the PPB-- I have a feeling there are going to be some interesting hacks on the backside.

#19 1 year ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

OP: Check continuity from the TP to J107-6. It has to be broken if you have +20V at the TP but 0V at J107-6.

I have continuity there. So maybe something else going on?

Either way, the boards are on their way to a trusted repairman. In the meantime, I'm going to trace the wire from J107-6 and see where it terminates- and if there are any breaks along the way.

#20 1 year ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I'm going to trace the wire from J107-6 and see where it terminates- and if there are any breaks along the way.

I opened up the harness, and traced that wire at J107-6. It goes to the flasher at the bottom left of the playfield. From there, I followed it to each flasher on the underside of the playfield. There was continuity throughout. So, I'm no further along than I was when I started.

#21 1 year ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I opened up the harness, and traced that wire at J107-6. It goes to the flasher at the bottom left of the playfield. From there, I followed it to each flasher on the underside of the playfield. There was continuity throughout. So, I'm no further along than I was when I started.

With the information that you have provided, you have reached the limit of my ability to help you. What you have described does not make any sense and I cannot make any further suggestions to help you in this remote capacity.

  • +20VDC at the test point
  • 0V at J107-6 despite continuity through simple traces and VIA between the two points.
  • Continuity between the wire at J107-6 and all connections to all bulbs (sockets or headers) in the playfield.

Given the above I think you will need someone else local to you (present at the machine) or you will need to provide many more images (doesn't seem practical as images don't always show electrical problems).

Someone else may be able to provide more assistance but as I just mentioned above ... with the information you have provided you have reached the limit of my ability to help you.

#22 1 year ago

You've been incredibly helpful, and gotten me started down what is certainly going to be the right path. I've sent the boards to someone with a factory test fixture, so I hope they are able to resolve it quickly.

Tonight's project is going to be tracing the flasher pathways into the backbox, as those aren't working either (and again, all of the sockets have been tested and working with new bulbs on my bench rig). In the end, I'm sure it's going to be something silly (fingers crossed!)

#23 1 year ago

I just had a couple of thoughts...

I think I may have been measuring the voltage incorrectly- does the coin door need to be closed? If so, that's probably where I screwed up.

Also, I should know this, but I don't... since all of the flashers are tied together on the + line (at least the ones on the playfield-- haven't checked the backbox yet), I assume they turn on and off based on ground? If so, what connector controls that? I can start tracing those.

#24 1 year ago

This problem is proving pretty hard, and partially that's because it IS hard, and partially it is because you haven't done a lot of this.

So here is a resource for the manual for your game:

https://www.ipdb.org/files/2811/Bally_1994_World_Cup_Soccer_Operations_Manual_May_1994_OCR_searchable.pdf

You need to look at page 127 (3-9 in the manual), this has the schematic for the flashlamps.

You also need to look at page 125 (3-7 in the manual) where it shows the wiring connections for the flashlamps.

It really comes down to this... with the front door interlock supplying power, put your red meter wire on either side of any flashlamp. Put your black meter lead on the ground strap of the pinball. You should measure voltage to both sides of the bulb, but particularly the Red-White wire.

If you do not measure power to the flash lamp itself, we are worried about why the Red-White wire isn't getting power to the bulb. So you look at the bottom half of the little flashlamp schematic, and you see that you have power coming in on J102, it goes through Fuse 111, to BR3, there is an indicator light, but it goes to J107 pin 6 or J106, pin 5.

The Red-White wire needs to supply power, and we want to make sure that is working before we worry about the other side of the circuit.

You've had a lot of good advice so far in this thread, and you really do need to get this part working first... get power to the bulb.

So, if you DO have voltage on the Red-White wire to the flash bulb, why isn't it working?

Have you considered that every single flash bulb in your game may be burnt out? Hehe.

But presuming that you've replaced the flash bulbs with known good ones, the next step is to supply ground to the blue or black wires that are connected to the other side of each flash bulb.

I do a quick and dirty test with an alligator clip that I connect to the ground strap in the backbox (or to the GND test point). Touch the alligator clip wire to the tab of Q42, Q40, Q38, Q36, Q34 Q36, Q34, Q32 on the power driver board just for a moment. The associated flasher should blink when you quickly touch the alligator clip to the transistor tab. Don't hold the clip on the tab too long, flashers are meant to flash, not stay on constantly!

But honestly, once you've gotten power to the flashlamps, and the bulbs aren't burnt out, the flashlamp test in diagnostics will work. (Unless you have an EXTREMELY rare power board problem... Hehe. There is always one more reason for something to be broken!)

Keep trying, and let us know what you find.

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from PinRetail:

Have you considered that every single flash bulb in your game may be burnt out? Hehe.

I replaced all of them with new bulbs. I tested every one of the flasher sockets on the playfield with my bench rig, and all of them work fine.

I can test the rest once my boards are back in my hands from getting NVRAM installed and general updating of the PPB.

#26 1 year ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I think I may have been measuring the voltage incorrectly- does the coin door need to be closed? If so, that's probably where I screwed up.

I had thought yesterday that perhaps you were not measuring correctly but I always assume people know what they are doing when they report measurements. I assume people will ask for help on how to measure if they are unsure. This is the least insulting way to proceed. If you don't know how to measure correctly then ask for help on how to do this. One useful tip to verify you are measuring correctly is to measure the other test points to see you are getting consistent and correct results for them. If none measure as expected then you are probably measuring incorrectly.

When the coin door is OPEN the high voltage AC source (20VDC and 50VDC) is interrupted. This means that you should measure 0VDC (or near 0VDC) at the test points. If you get correct voltage measurements with the coin door open then the coin door interlock switch is either wired incorrectly (unlikely as this would interrupt high voltage when the coin door is closed) or the coin door interlock switch has been bypassed (disabled). This information was stated above in post #6 (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/need-a-little-help-troubleshooting-a-problem-with-my-wcs-94#post-6992953)

Quoted from drsfmd:

Also, I should know this, but I don't... since all of the flashers are tied together on the + line (at least the ones on the playfield-- haven't checked the backbox yet), I assume they turn on and off based on ground? If so, what connector controls that? I can start tracing those.

Solenoids in Williams machines are individually controlled by a drive transistor. Each one has its own drive transistor. There may be multiple flashers (wired in parallel) controlled by a single drive transistor. It is extremely unlikely that all drive transistors fail at once to stop all of them from functioning. It is more likely you have a power problem. A power problem could be voltage source or daisy chained power distribution wiring.

Quoted from drsfmd:

I can test the rest once my boards are back in my hands from getting NVRAM installed and general updating of the PPB.

In the meantime you can test the voltage coming off the transformer secondary for the high voltage AC source. If the PDB comes back from your repair technician correctly repaired then having a verified transformer secondary output means you can eliminate the voltage source and focus on the power distribution.

1 week later
#27 1 year ago

I can bring this one to conclusion... the problem is on the PPB. I swapped in one from another game, and everything worked perfectly... so it's in transit back to my board guy to take another look at it.

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