(Topic ID: 100695)

Neat thing about WOZ that hasn't seen a lot of discussion......

By joemamma

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 48 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Pinchroma
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

The manual....

It has to be one of, if not THE best manuals I have ever seen! Not only for a pinball machine but for any piece of industrial equipment. In my day job I turn wheat into pasta so I have considerable experience with new equipment and equipment manuals. Butch Peel/JJP have done an excellent job with the manual for Wizard of Oz!

The manual is even available to view on the display of the game.

This has to be the best pinball manual ever written for one of the all time best pinball machines!

I know some people don't care for Jack, JJP, WOZ or us "JJP fanboys" but I doubt if anyone can in complete honesty say anything bad about the game manual.

I'll take this chance to thank Butch and JJP team for an excellent operational manual.

Thanks Again!

Chris

#2 9 years ago
Quoted from joemamma:

The manual is even available to view on the display of the game.

Ok, I'm a fanboy as well. However, I really don't see a lot of use for this one (and yes, I called it up and looked at it on my game). It's cool, but the really cool part about the manual on a computer is that it is searchable. I can just look up exactly what I need to know.

However, I will say that it is an EXCELLENT manual as well. Very well written and put together.

-9
#4 9 years ago

Am I the only one that thinks that charging us 100 bucks for a manual is just plain ignorant?!?!? Honestly I wouldn't have a problem paying for it at the 40-50 dollar price point. We were the ones that invested in this whole thing and now after everything that has gone on so far this just feels like another kick in the teeth.

#5 9 years ago

I thought 100$ is high, but considering the glossy color and the amount of pages I don't know if there is that much margin. It'd be one thing if they were making 10,000 - but they aren't. Printing costs for small runs (think Kinko's) are a bit surprising.

#6 9 years ago

I seem to recall downloading a copy for my Ipad.
It's a thing of beauty.

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from eavedesian:

Am I the only one that thinks that charging us 100 bucks for a manual is just plain ignorant?!?!? Honestly I wouldn't have a problem paying for it at the 40-50 dollar price point. We were the ones that invested in this whole thing and now after everything that has gone on so far this just feels like another kick in the teeth.

It doesn't come with the machine?

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from eavedesian:

Am I the only one that thinks that charging us 100 bucks for a manual is just plain ignorant?!?!?

As I posted in a different thread. I had a WOZ customer call me. And he was quoted $120 to have the latest manual on line printed out on heavy paper.

The printed manual from JJP has 50 more pages, bound, and on heavy paper.

LTG : )

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from eavedesian:

Am I the only one that thinks that charging us 100 bucks for a manual is just plain ignorant?!?!? Honestly I wouldn't have a problem paying for it at the 40-50 dollar price point. We were the ones that invested in this whole thing and now after everything that has gone on so far this just feels like another kick in the teeth.

Alex mentioned in another thread that the paper alone is over $30. At that time he was quoting prices for 8.5x10 paper but the paper the manual uses is 8.5x14. From what I see online 100 sheets of 8.5x14 glossy paper can be $20+. The WOZ manual is over 300 pages... Factor in colored printing, binding and some room for profit and its easy to see how it can be $100. The printed WOZ manual comes across as a collectors item to me with how much content is in it and how detailed it is.

#10 9 years ago
Quoted from eavedesian:

Am I the only one that thinks that charging us 100 bucks for a manual is just plain ignorant?!?!? Honestly I wouldn't have a problem paying for it at the 40-50 dollar price point. We were the ones that invested in this whole thing and now after everything that has gone on so far this just feels like another kick in the teeth.

I really like the idea of shipping a PDF manual with the game. I think JJP should release two manuals; one on junk paper like wb and stern have for years and the glossy one is cool too for people who want it. Those of us who have worked on dirty machines don't want a nice full color manual that we'll just get greasy and drip solder on that "manual" is for a coffee table.

#11 9 years ago

I admit I was a little shocked by the price tag at first, but it almost appears to be more of a coffee table book than a simple manual that you would leave in the bottom of the machine. Since I just bought the poster set and now need to get them framed, I'll hold off on it for now, but I'll definitely buy one down the line.

#12 9 years ago

Ok. So this isn't a conventional manual? This is printed on heavy paper almost like card stock?

#13 9 years ago

370 pages of glossy full color card stock.

#14 9 years ago

Apparently 420+ pages per JG.

#15 9 years ago

It's a collectors item. I already have printed out my own manual (yes, in color) on 20# paper and I use that for doing work. The manual built into the pin is also cool but I still prefer a paper version when tracking down wires with the playfield up.

#16 9 years ago

$100 seems cheap all things considered.

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from eavedesian:

Ok. So this isn't a conventional manual? This is printed on heavy paper almost like card stock?

Yup, here's a vid with Todd showing one off at the open house (skip to 13:04)

#18 9 years ago

The manual is about 13 mins into Todd's video. I looked at it at the open house, it is really nice quality and very comprehensive.

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

$100 seems cheap all things considered.

I remember the days when you would get a manual for free with your purchase.

#20 9 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

I remember the days when you would get a manual for free with your purchase.

You get a full free manual with WoZ.

Here you go:

http://support.jerseyjackpinball.com/downloads/woz/Wizard_of_Oz_Manual_3_0_June_2014.pdf

#21 9 years ago

Must be the "green" faction that reduces paperwork provided with electronic purchases. No manuals with computers, laser lights or any recent electronic goods, just links to the on-line one. Not a bad idea I suppose, but old fashioned me likes a manual in hand to browse through when needed.
How are addendum's added with the code updates?

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from dendoc:

How are addendum's added with the code updates?

Great question - I will buy a manual but want to wait in the case that they'll update it before I buy it. I don't have the game yet, so why not.

#23 9 years ago

For a machine that cost $7-8k don't you think a hard copy would be nice? It you have a game on location it may not always be easy to pull it up online. Sure you could print one up but seems like something that should be included is a game of this level.

#24 9 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

For a machine that cost $7-8k don't you think a hard copy would be nice? It you have a game on location it may not always be easy to pull it up online. Sure you could print one up but seems like something that should be included is a game of this level.

You get one in the game and on cd. This is how it works for all modern goods these day. My $3700 TV also came with a guide in the TV and one on cd. You hardly ever get a hardcopy manual with new equipment no matter how much it has cost.

-1
#25 9 years ago
Quoted from PinballRulez:

You get one in the game and on cd. This is how it works for all modern goods these day. My $3700 TV also came with a guide in the TV and one on cd. You hardly ever get a hardcopy manual with new equipment no matter how much it has cost.

Maybe it would be cool if they made it where you can view it on the LCD screen. Would make it easier to pull up.

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Maybe it would be cool if they made it where you can view it on the LCD screen. Would make it easier to pull up.

With 4.0 you can.

LTG : )

#27 9 years ago

From my brother Keith who has been in the printing biz for 37 years:

"Really not excessive - $100.00 divided by 360 is .277 per page - plus paper - plus coil binding.
We could produce 10 -2000 for $59.00 each."

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Maybe it would be cool if they made it where you can view it on the LCD screen. Would make it easier to pull up.

That's already in the game. You can view the entire manual on the screen.

#29 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

That's already in the game. You can view the entire manual on the screen.

Thats pretty cool.

#30 9 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Maybe it would be cool if they made it where you can view it on the LCD screen. Would make it easier to pull up.

Yes, you can. And yes, this particular printed manual is worth $100 IMO, as it is printed on heavy glossy stock, full-color, and spiral bound to lay flat when opened. Getting a copy printed from the pdf of comparable quality at a local print shop would easily run you as much if not more.

As for not providing a printed copy, the game does come with the current version on CD, and the latest version is always downloadable, free. It wouldn't make sense to print it if it wasn't in full color, and a full-color manual would be very pricey. (What other pinball manual comes in full color? None.)

So the printed manual is a nice option, but you get the full-color version in pdf and on the backbox display. Easy to load it up on a laptop or tablet when needed. I'd like to own a printed copy but it's not necessary and would be a splurge for me.

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

I remember the days when you would get a manual for free with your purchase.

You didn't get it for "free." The costs of that manual were factored into the bill of materials.

I don't see the problem and don't mind manuals not being included with anything. After all, I'm used to printing mine out when I need them. Been printing out W/B manuals from IPDB for years.

#32 9 years ago

How are the leg bolts? I haven't heard anything about those.

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

How are the leg bolts? I haven't heard anything about those.

Steel, green, or red. Usually 8 a game.

LTG : )

#34 9 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Steel, green, or red. Usually 8 a game.
LTG : )

I honestly didn't know they color matched those. I'm not surprised, though.

#35 9 years ago

It is hardly reasonable to compare this to conventional pinball manuals. The WOZ manual is something quite distinctive and impressive. I would have printed it out myself anyway, which would not have been cheap. Instead, I am grateful for the chance to secure a much higher quality copy, even at $100. I have spent that much money many times on less valuable and/or useful pinball items. I think it's a win/win. Everyone can get the best pinball manual ever written for free, and those who want an exceptional printed version don't need to try to produce it on their own. I would take either option over another conventional manual.

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

370 pages of glossy full color card stock.

I know printing and if it's 370 pages of glossy full color card stock at 8.5x14" ...spiral bound with clear plastic front and black plastic back...$100 is a DEAL!

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

I know printing and if it's 370 pages of glossy full color card stock at 8.5x14" ...spiral bound with clear plastic front and black plastic back...$100 is a DEAL!

Ted...

It's reasonably priced with profit but certainly no deal.

#38 9 years ago

If you think $100 is to high for manual we just ordered new manuals for a machine at work. The total bill was $6000.

#39 9 years ago

So long as one comes on a cd, that's the environmentally conscious way to go for companies in this day and age anyway.

#40 9 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

It's reasonably priced with profit but certainly no deal.

So, I guess you haven't taken the file to Staples yet and got a price...

#41 9 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Maybe it would be cool if they made it where you can view it on the LCD screen. Would make it easier to pull up.

Ha Ha Ha Ha!

You didn't read my original post. I said that was one of the coolest things about the manual. I see Lloyd gave you that detail within a few minutes of your question.

Ck

#42 9 years ago

Thanks for that! I'm not a WOZ owner, but I'm waiting on a Hobbit and wanted to see what all of the fuss was about. That is one ridiculously impressive manual. If they match the quality on TH with a digital and in-game version I will be absolutely thrilled. I'd probably also plop down $100 for a very nicely printed version as a keepsake. For practical use, PDF on a laptop or tablet is far more useful than a printed version. When the manual is that detailed and comprehensive, the printed version is probably even less useful in the workshop.

#43 9 years ago

$100 seems like a steal after buying god damn college textbooks

#45 9 years ago

Just got my manual today.

WOW

This is one REALLY nice manual.

#46 9 years ago

With shipping the total price was $118.54, or it was for me. Shipping seems a little high but I guess that is OK.

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from jamesdeloris:

With shipping the total price was $118.54, or it was for me. Shipping seems a little high but I guess that is OK.

I'm going to buy one but insist they throw it in the box with the game to avoid shipping - hopefully that works out!

#48 9 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

I'm going to buy one but insist they throw it in the box with the game to avoid shipping - hopefully that works out!

They will.

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