(Topic ID: 95336)

NAVL messed up a Whitewater w/ the legs on


By Drew13

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 79 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by btw75
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 79 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 5 years ago

To reconstruct the crime scene ,it looks like someone got lazy and dragged machine instead of lifting it. The leg fell into some kind of crack, bump,on the dock or on the floor of the box truck,and they just kept pulling until they heard the cracking of wood.

#52 5 years ago

I shouldn't be reading this thread. I just paid them a lot of money to move a game for me. Now I'm scared.

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from brad808:

I shouldn't be reading this thread. I just paid them a lot of money to move a game for me. Now I'm scared.

C'mon… its like flying. You only hear about the rare, rare crashes not the millions of successful flights... it'll be fine!

#54 5 years ago

It doesn't take advanced physics to see why shipping with legs on is a bad idea. Regardless of how the pin is transported to and from the trucks (forklift vs hand carry...and do you really think they are hand carrying these things around in their warehouses? LOL...yea right), the legs and cabinet mounts simply aren't designed for the forces they are being subjected to when bouncing around in the back of a truck speeding down the highway.

Sure, many have managed to survive it, but no one should ever be surprised if their game shows up looking like this one.

I bet most of you would frown upon someone violently nudging the crap out of your pin while playing, but that's no where near the stress being put on them while travelling at 70 down the road with cornering, braking, etc.

#55 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

There are certain benefits to being a lawyer in dealing with these things I'm sure.

I'd agree, but they never knew what my profession was.

#56 5 years ago

It goes both ways. I have seen games on a pallet, with two forklift holes in the side of the cabinet as well. Both ways are dangerous and shipping in general is always a risk. I very rarely buy anything I have to ship. I think i'd rather have this damage than 2 holes right in the middle of the side of the cab.

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

It goes both ways. I have seen games on a pallet, with two forklift holes in the side of the cabinet as well. Both ways are dangerous and shipping in general is always a risk. I very rarely buy anything I have to ship. I think i'd rather have this damage than 2 holes right in the middle of the side of the cab.

Yea...no doubt. I'm not saying legs off is hazard proof either by any means. As others have said, probably just as much chance of getting f'd up in shipping. I'm just saying legs on is a really bad idea. Then again shipping in general is a bad idea if you can avoid it, LOL!

#58 5 years ago

any game I have shipped has been with the legs on, and so far so good. Have had games shipped to me both ways and haven't had an issue either. BTW, from what I could gather the last time I shipped ,STI and NAVL are no longer associated with one another and haven't been for years. The price difference between the 2 is significant as well (STI being much , much cheaper). everyone seems to still lump the 2 companies together. which is it? does anyone know for sure? (just a silly pet peeve of mine that was exacerbated when trying to ship and had NAVL on the phone and the price was around $700 from kentucky to nj!…only realized it when I kept asking for michele and they said she didn't work there.)

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

I'm just saying legs on is a really bad idea.!

Totally disagree... pros and cons for both and the risk in general is the same. What ever your comfortable with is how it should be shipped.

Pick your poison... 99% of the time neither will kill ya!

#60 5 years ago

I try to avoid shipping if at all possible

#61 5 years ago

Only way to ship a game right is by yourself.

#62 5 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Nope, game has been opened and some mods added, and dialed in. Will have NAVL white glove delivery service, the distrib. picked up the difference, almost $100 out of there pocket.
If I'am only 1 state away from distributor, how long will it take NAVL to deliver to my home? They are picking game up tomorrow morning (Wed.), so I was thinking Friday morning or so.

1 state over I would have picked it up myself. With NAVL you could get it Friday or Monday or ???

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'd agree, but they never knew what my profession was.

I figured if they had tried to jack you, you would have informed them.

#64 5 years ago

Hate to say it but we all know the risk we take when shipping a game, thus the reason for insurance. You win some you lose some, hopefully you can get the cab back together nicely. Sorry to see another game victim of the shipping process.

#65 5 years ago

^^^

yup, and not only that, there is risk when transporting it yourself...

it happens... it sucks, but it happens... expecting the entire world to function perfectly is an un-realistic expectation, especially since it is one that we cannot have of our own selves...

#66 5 years ago

Ouch! I'd hate to see that for my first pinball machine!

You guys in the midwest (and shipping in the midwest) - should try Spee-dee LTL - just needs to be strapped to a pallet (you prep the packaging and they will pick it up) and they treat you right. Just shipped a jukebox and game with them for under $100.

I've used them several times with no issues.

#67 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I figured if they had tried to jack you, you would have informed them.

Yep, but to NAVL's credit, it never came close to getting to that point.

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from Concretehardt:

Legs on with NAVL = hand carried

That's funny. You really think they carry all the legs on games by hand? I have seen first hand in the warehouse shippers using a forklift under the game, in between the legs and on the side of the game.

#69 5 years ago

Here's a ???
What is the Dollar amount of this damage?
I estimated a Safecracker that had been damaged in shipping for an insurance company once.(fork hole in bottom of cab.) And in the end, I gave them a lower dollar amount, thinking, "what would I pay for this machine with that damage?"
I would say the damage to this WW has not lowered the value of the machine more than 1k.
That said, I wouldn't want less than 2k from the ins. co.

#70 5 years ago
Quoted from DNO:

Here's a ???
What is the Dollar amount of this damage?
I estimated a Safecracker that had been damaged in shipping for an insurance company once.(fork hole in bottom of cab.) And in the end, I gave them a lower dollar amount, thinking, "what would I pay for this machine with that damage?"
I would say the damage to this WW has not lowered the value of the machine more than 1k.
That said, I wouldn't want less than 2k from the ins. co.

Either way, you can only insure the game up to the purchase amount. Nothing more.

#71 5 years ago

Almost every time I see NAVL they have another pinball machine on the truck. I've been to their dock and have seen many other pinball machines. They ship a lot of pinball machines all have been with legs on.

The fact that we only see these threads once every long while is a good thing.

It can happen with legs on, or off, or on a pallet or not. That's not the issue. The issue is finding a company that will pay actual insurance, and not this pennies on the pound BS.

Sometimes, NAVL can be a pain in the ass, but they have always paid. I've never seen someone post that NAVL destroyed their game, they bought the insurance, and was stiffed. Sometimes people had to fight or follow up, but they always made it right.

If anyone else has ever had another experience I'd love to hear it.

It sucks your game didn't make it okay, but the damage isn't that bad and NAVL will pay as long as he shelled out the extra $40 or so bucks for insurance. Right now, not much of an issue.

#72 5 years ago

so, only one company pays up on insurance claims and asks for a minimum of $300 to ship? that's messed up.

1 week later
#73 5 years ago

Is there anyone in the Denver/Northern Colorado area that can do the type of pinball repairs that this machine will require?

#74 5 years ago

My only bitch with NAVL as a seller is they are as bad as the cable company on times. They will only give me a 4 hour window that they will arrive during, not an exact time. They only will pick up during the middle of a business day, so you better not have a job or a life that involves you not sitting around your house during the middle of a work day.

To help eliminate this issue of me sitting around waiting for them I have asked every time, repeatedly, "please have your driver call me 30 minutes to an 1 hour before you arrive." Which they assure me is the STANDARD for them because they don't want the drivers to show up an have no one around. I have now had three pick-ups by them, they have never once called me. The truck just shows up often close to an hour outside of their time window.

This is obviously far less of problem compared to them damaging a pin, the drivers are always very nice and professional. But that is my bitch and something to think about if you are going to be selling. If a buyer was at all close to me I would just deliver the pin myself and ask for the delivery fee. I will end up wasting most of a day waiting for the company to show up and pick the pin up and not get paid for that wasted time.

#75 5 years ago

If you guys think NAVL hand carries pins when theyre shipped with legs on, im here to tell you your sadly mistaken. Sure, they hand carry it out from your house to the truck, but once it gets to the warehouse, its all forklift warriors.

I had a recent experience with this and my BDK. NAVL had it in town and when they told me it would be a couple weeks before they would deliver to my area, i decided to go pick it up myself. I told them i could help carry it out of the warehouse to my truck. They said no need...15 mins later there's my pin with legs on speeding through the warehouse on a forklift. My first thought.... .....He was manuevaring through all sorts of packaged obstacles. He was a good driver but holy hell, glad i got the insurance.

After seeing the OP's pics, i bet the forklift driver wailed right into the side of a ramp or got it caught somewhere being a little too careless?

#76 5 years ago
Quoted from mg81:

To help eliminate this issue of me sitting around waiting for them I have asked every time, repeatedly, "please have your driver call me 30 minutes to an 1 hour before you arrive." Which they assure me is the STANDARD for them because they don't want the drivers to show up an have no one around. I have now had three pick-ups by them, they have never once called me. The truck just shows up often close to an hour outside of their time window.

I've had 10 games shipped to me and every time I tell them I need a 45 minute call before they deliver they have called me 45 minutes before they arrive. No damage with all 10 games too. Their standard insurance is if the game is valued up to $1500 I think and if you value the game at over that they ask if you want added insurance. If your game is valued over 5k it can be expensive but worth the piece of mind.

#77 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball4life:

Yup, I had forgotten about that issue! If you touch it it becomes your problem. I want to say in their defense that it has only been very recent that we have encountered the slightest issue with them. I learned my lesson though....if it ain't packed right before it goes on the truck, it aint a leavin'....just like your Tron!

Same here...never a problem until very recent. I finally spoke to Jeff from the Denver terminal. He assures me there is no company policy changes that would be causing these issues as of late. He seemed genuinely concerned and happy I brought our recent issues to his attention. We ate going to give them another shot.

By the way, I am reading posts that are discouraging people from shipping with the legs on. I have been doing this a long time, so my comments about this are probably more about statistics since I can go back many years. I am sure that a person who has only shipped a couple times could have a bad experience just because things happen, and it was just bad luck. But if you believe in the odds, I can tell you that most of the time when we have a game shipped on a pallet or box, there was some damage. Until very recently, I never experienced any damage when the legs were on. I know Michelle says there is no statistical difference but from where I stand, there is absolutely no way we would ship a game with the legs off! For newbies, its also a lot to ask them to set it up when it is on its back. For most of you, that isn't an issue. My two cents. I am hoping STI just had some bad luck last month and that going forward they will continue with their outstanding track record. I am glad to hear people get their claims paid by them...that is generally not the case with other freight companies. We use to get brand new games in the box back in the day when video games were selling in amazing numbers and we got damaged games all the time. I don't recall a single claim being paid to us. Freight damage is becoming a huge cost and concern to me lately. I think corporate guys in their glass towers are placing nearly impossible time demands on these drivers, and it is making the problem worse. There isn't time to be careful. And the end customers are really getting stuck. The only solution is to stop shipping stuff, but that isn't going to happen. It has become worse in general, not just with trucking lines. In four weeks I have received two Merit touchscreens from FedEx that were destroyed, a Mac Book Pro that had to be returned due to major shipping damage, and The ArcadeShop rolled up $350 worth of graphics so tight that they put hard dents in the paper so if we use the graphics, there will be bulges in the decals. I get the feeling people have given up and just don't care anymore.

#78 5 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

If you guys think NAVL hand carries pins when theyre shipped with legs on, im here to tell you your sadly mistaken. Sure, they hand carry it out from your house to the truck, but once it gets to the warehouse, its all forklift warriors.
I had a recent experience with this and my BDK. NAVL had it in town and when they told me it would be a couple weeks before they would deliver to my area, i decided to go pick it up myself. I told them i could help carry it out of the warehouse to my truck. They said no need...15 mins later there's my pin with legs on speeding through the warehouse on a forklift. My first thought.... .....He was manuevaring through all sorts of packaged obstacles. He was a good driver but holy hell, glad i got the insurance.
After seeing the OP's pics, i bet the forklift driver wailed right into the side of a ramp or got it caught somewhere being a little too careless?

Yikes...well, that explains a lot! Thanks for the info , you have to believe they have accidents while doing that!

#79 5 years ago

Mine was damaged last week. The driver said there was no question it was forklift, said he much prefers to see them on a pallet.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/shipping-damage-what-to-do

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