(Topic ID: 95336)

NAVL messed up a Whitewater w/ the legs on


By Drew13

5 years ago



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  • 79 posts
  • 54 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by btw75
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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There are 79 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

A customer of ours bought a Whitewater through Pinside and had it delivered via NAVL and this is what was delivered today.

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#2 5 years ago
Quoted from Drew13:

A customer of ours bought a Whitewater through Pinside and had it delivered via NAVL and this is what was delivered today.

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That sucks. This is why I pretty much still prefer to have games shipped on their back strapped to a pallet.

#3 5 years ago

Hope you have insurance.

That really sucks.

It should be fixable.

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#5 5 years ago

Shipping with the legs on is just an accident waiting to happen.

-1
#6 5 years ago

Why was it shipped with legs on? That's asking for trouble.

#7 5 years ago

I've never had a game shipped. What is the benefit in shipping with the legs on?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from davewtf:

Shipping with the legs on is just an accident waiting to happen.

I remember reading posts that indicated that the NAVL stats on this say that there is virtually no difference in the chances of a pin being damaged when shipped with legs on vs. on a pallet.

Quoted from aingide:

I've never had a game shipped. What is the benefit in shipping with the legs on?

The obvious advantage is that you don't have to put it on a pallet!

#9 5 years ago

Jalpert has a very good understanding of how STI/NAVL works, you might want to chat with him.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from aingide:

I've never had a game shipped. What is the benefit in shipping with the legs on?

If you want to ship with STI (NAVL), it is with the legs on--that's how they prefer to do it.

10
#11 5 years ago

NAVL ships pins on their legs all the time and damage rarely happens… no more than being strapped to a pallet. Bottom line: sh*t happens.

2 things I always make sure of when shipping or receiving a pin with legs on. Use leg protectors and make sure leg bolts are nice and tight.

#12 5 years ago

I was just about to post these and start a thread. I'm pissed off and feel sick at the same time, as it's the owners first pin and he was excited and did everything by the book. I told him next time I'd put it in my van and drive it to him. One state away and they jacked it up!

Take care of him Drew!

#13 5 years ago

Sorry to see, but STI (NAVL) will cover that unlike most of the freight companies. Could have been worse. Legs on is still the best way to ship a pin. Like teekee said, **** happens.

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#14 5 years ago

Legs on with NAVL = hand carried
Palletized with NAVL = ham fisted forklift operator
I have shipped or had shipped at least 12 pins with NAVL legs on and never had a problem.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from ReplayRyan:

Sorry to see, but STI (NAVL) will cover that unlike most of the freight companies. Could have been worse. Legs on is still the best way to ship a pin. Like teekee said, **** happens.

The one time I had an issue with NAVL (they put a scratch in the side), they honored the claim that I filed with minimal hassle. I was unhappy that they damaged the pin obviously, but I was very satisfied with how they handled the claim.

#16 5 years ago

Like Teekee said, tighten up the leg bolts and protectors are mandatory. Major left back leg wrinkling on a pin I received legs on, no protector and a little loose…..

And always get insurance!

#17 5 years ago

We always ship games with the legs on, so the game is carried like Concretehardt said.

We will post pictures of the game/cabinet once it is finished

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

The one time I had an issue with NAVL (they put a scratch in the side), they honored the claim that I filed with minimal hassle. I was unhappy that they damaged the pin obviously, but I was very satisfied with how they handled the claim.

Ditto here. I've shipped/received numerous items and pins with legs on and off with NAVL. Majority of the time I've had no problems. The two times there was damage, NAVL paid the full claim. Just make sure everything is photo-documented. Have pictures of the game before it's picked up, after NAVL wraps it, and when it's on the truck. Then pictures the moment it comes off the truck and after it is unwrapped.

I still wouldn't hesitate to use them.

#19 5 years ago

You'll need to get an estimate of the cost to fix it to submit an insurance claim.
That is what I had to do one time, and it worked out ok for me. Contact them to let them know there is damage so they will be waiting on the estimate. Don't want to take too long to contact them.

#20 5 years ago

When I shipped my first high dollar pin, I spoke to Michelle at STI extensively on how STI requires it to be shipped to be covered under their insurance plan. She told me, legs on. No packaging beforehand. The crew picking it up is responsible to note any cosmetic damage on the bol. They then are supposed to blanket wrap, fold the head, more blankets, corner protectors on all outside edges including the head and legs and then shrink wrap. If the game is wrapped up by the seller, there is a potential for dispute saying it was concealed damage. It is on the seller to be sure everything is wrapped well and protected and be sure the bol is clean. You are paying for the service anyway.

#21 5 years ago

I like shipping with the legs on, BUT I like taking the levelers off and bolting the legs to a pallet.

#22 5 years ago

Ah, shit. Was that one yours, Lee?

It's a great machine (have seen it in person)--very pretty... too bad it got hosed. Hopefully NAVL will take care of everything.

#23 5 years ago

Legs off, with the cab on end has always been my preference.

Sorry about the damage, that really sux. You should update this thread when you find out what STI's compensation will be. I've shipped many times with them and never had injury, so I'm really curious how they will compensate you for the damage.

#24 5 years ago

Interesting. I got my T3 through STI in Jan 2014, and we utilized a fully enclosed crate with the pin strapped down on a pallet. Did they recently make "legs on" mandatory??

#25 5 years ago

I think its up to you, but Michelle has a strong preference for legs on. I shipped that way, but if I had a high end pin I'd prefer a crate & pallet in order to reduce the stresses on the cabinet joints.

#26 5 years ago

I'm at 50% damage rate when putting on pallet... and 0% on legs. Easily 20 pins shipped

#27 5 years ago

I'd never ship a game w/the legs on. What often happens is exactly that you see there - game was shoved up against the wall of the truck until the back of the game was pressed against the wall.

The legs, of course, stick out a couple inches ... the simple lever force there pops the game cabinet seams.

#28 5 years ago

They should pay for a brand new cabinet and all new artwork from Doug Huse and it will likely be better than if it arrived undamaged

http://www.letsplaypinball.com/cabinets.html

#29 5 years ago

I had NAVL ship an Apollo 13 to me from Nebraska. They shipped it with the legs on and the backbox folded down. However, instead of placing the cord inside the cabinet as intended, they slung is across the glass and closed the backbox on top of it. The cord was pinched and the translite plastic was all cracked. The seller was kind and reimbursed me for the parts. But I agree, pins should NOT be shipped with legs on.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from cleland:

They should pay for a brand new cabinet and all new artwork from Doug Huse and it will likely be better than if it arrived undamaged

That would be nice, but usually after months of feet dragging, they offer you 1/3 of the cost of the damage.....

#31 5 years ago

Sucks that it happened. Hopefully will be taken care of quickly so the buyer can enjoy their new machine.

Quite a debate on how to ship a pin going on here....I'm a little torn on how to do it if and when I did.

Maybe we can all just compromise and ship with just TWO legs on???

#32 5 years ago

Woodworking-wise, the fix should be fairly simple ... remove the bolts and legs, then remove the bolt plate.

Chip out the existing inside corner braces. Clamp and glue cabinet back together.

Acquire two new-style bolt plates (the 3-sided ones), and install/glue a new corner brace cut to fit the new plate.

drill bolt holes, and install new plate. Install legs.

Play game.

#33 5 years ago

No need for a new cabinet. A bit of wood glue, new corner braces, new leg blocks and it'll be pretty difficult to notice the damage.

Definitely a bummer, but could've been a lot wore. Games get damaged, regardless of how they are shipped.

#34 5 years ago

Perfect post to read when tomorrow morning NAVL is picking up my new machine from the distributor, but I'am sure all will be well, if not, its insured and will be right in the end.

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That would be nice, but usually after months of feet dragging, they offer you 1/3 of the cost of the damage.....

Not in my case they didn't.

#36 5 years ago

I will keep you posted on NAVL's response and the repair work that is going to be done

#37 5 years ago

My good friend had a HUO hurricane pinball for sale on Craig's list about a year ago and the buyer sent over NAVL to pick it up. my friend cardboarded and wrapped the heck out of it and left the legs on like they asked us to do. When the machine arrived the front of the cabinet under the coin door was major chewed up. The buyer was major bummed the machine was so perfect before it was shipped. We were sick over it. This was our first experience shipping a game and not a good one.

Rob

#38 5 years ago

We are in Monument so we probably have the same terminal. We also sell pins. Guess what just happened to us?? We shipped seven games to a customer via NAVL. A guy who spoke almost no english showed up (which is fine by me if they know what they are doing) and he had no idea what he was supposed to do, and I couldn't talk to him! And they showed up four days late. He brought his wife, who spoke a little english, so the forms could be filled out. Hmm. So, feeling bad for the guy I did most of the work getting it to his liftgate. He goes around the games with shrink wrap two times instead of the usual round and round, and no blankets. There was no point even wrapping the games. I assumed (ya, I know...don't make me duck guys) the terminal was going to properly wrap the games. Nope. They arrived to my customer damaged and wrapped as they left here. The customer is sending four back. I called Jeff at the terminal and of course no call back. I am going to contact Michelle. Along with your story, something horrible has gone wrong with the Denver terminal and I hope it isn't a new company policy. Three weeks ago they sent someone over that complained about everything. I just told him to leave. He came back a few minutes later and apologized and all was good after that. Somethings up!

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from Drew13:

I will keep you posted on NAVL's response and the repair work that is going to be done

Problem is most home buyers won't deal with that nonsense. They will just dispute the charge and it's our problem. I will no longer recommend STI. Took them years to build a reputation...four weeks to destroy it. I would rather ship cheap and take my chances than pay triple and have them not care. If they can't return my calls after over twenty years of doing business with them, then I have to assume they don't care.

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

Perfect post to read when tomorrow morning NAVL is picking up my new machine from the distributor, but I'am sure all will be well, if not, its insured and will be right in the end.

In that case just inspect the box carefully and don't sign for it unless it looks perfect. At least with new you can get it replaced. If you are really smart, insist on unpacking it. The driver won't like it but they usually will let you if you refuse to sign for it otherwise.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball4life:

Problem is most home buyers won't deal with that nonsense. They will just dispute the charge and it's our problem. I will no longer recommend STI. Took them years to build a reputation...four weeks to destroy it. I would rather ship cheap and take my chances than pay triple and have them not care. If they can't return my calls after over twenty years of doing business with them, then I have to assume they don't care.

This is the catch 22 prep it properly and they won't insure, let them prep and it is totally half assed.
I make them wait for me to prep it after they inspect.
The last guys had no shrink and just wanted to toss a blanket over it.
A powderdoated Tron to VA from Ca with one blanket?
I don't think so.
Here it is, the legs are packed and boxed on top and a set of junk legs are installed for shipping.
The game arrived like it left.

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#42 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That would be nice, but usually after months of feet dragging, they offer you 1/3 of the cost of the damage.....

Quoted from RobT:

Not in my case they didn't.

Me neither with STI-NAVL, heard that with other carriers though.

I've had about 15 games shipped by STI-NAVL and two of my games came with minor damage--but both in both cases the claims were paid expeditiously and to my complete 100% satisfaction.

When I asked Michelle which of the two methods suffers less damage, her response was there's no difference between the two statistically.

BTW, it's virtually the same cost to ship either way at STI-NAVL with a lift-gate in both locations.

Also: IIRC they have a pretty low cap on insurance when shipping a game on a pallet ($1500 or so?)--vs. when shipping Legs On, a higher dollar game can be insured for full game value for very little extra.

Sorry about your damage OP, it always sucks but as far as fixes go that one is a fairly-easy DIY after you receive your check. Just clamp in two directions with wood glue & 1X4s for bracing with four clamps total (two long clamps and two short; Harbor Freight has 'em fairly cheap). Might want to also install the 3-sided new-style leg brackets found at PBL.

#43 5 years ago

That really sux, it was a super nice game. Lee wouldn't let any of us play it because it was already sold. However, fill it with some blue wood glue, clamp that sucker down, and slap a large mounting plate from marco in there and it will feel as solid as it did new.

#44 5 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

This is the catch 22 prep it properly and they won't insure, let them prep and it is totally half assed.
I make them wait for me to prep it after they inspect.
The last guys had no shrink and just wanted to toss a blanket over it.
A powderdoated Tron to VA from Ca with one blanket?
I don't think so.
Here it is, the legs are packed and boxed on top and a set of junk legs are installed for shipping.
The game arrived like it left.

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Yup, I had forgotten about that issue! If you touch it it becomes your problem. I want to say in their defense that it has only been very recent that we have encountered the slightest issue with them. I learned my lesson though....if it ain't packed right before it goes on the truck, it aint a leavin'....just like your Tron!

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from NM:

Me neither with STI-NAVL, heard that with other carriers though.
I've had about 15 games shipped by STI-NAVL and two of my games came with minor damage--but both in both cases the claims were paid expeditiously and to my complete 100% satisfaction.
When I asked Michelle which of the two methods suffers less damage, her response was there's no difference between the two statistically.
BTW, it's virtually the same cost to ship either way at STI-NAVL with a lift-gate in both locations.
Also: IIRC they have a pretty low cap on insurance when shipping a game on a pallet ($1500 or so?)--vs. when shipping Legs On, a higher dollar game can be insured for full game value for very little extra.
Sorry about your damage OP, it always sucks but as far as fixes go that one is a fairly-easy DIY after you receive your check. Just clamp in two directions with wood glue & 1X4s for bracing with four clamps total (two long clamps and two short; Harbor Freight has 'em fairly cheap). Might want to also install the 3-sided new-style leg brackets found at PBL.

Nice post....correct on all counts inc repair!

#46 5 years ago

The damage to that WH2O isn't as bad as it looks. A furniture repair guy can fix that up.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball4life:

In that case just inspect the box carefully and don't sign for it unless it looks perfect. At least with new you can get it replaced. If you are really smart, insist on unpacking it. The driver won't like it but they usually will let you if you refuse to sign for it otherwise.

Nope, game has been opened and some mods added, and dialed in. Will have NAVL white glove delivery service, the distrib. picked up the difference, almost $100 out of there pocket.

If I'am only 1 state away from distributor, how long will it take NAVL to deliver to my home? They are picking game up tomorrow morning (Wed.), so I was thinking Friday morning or so.

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not in my case they didn't.

There are certain benefits to being a lawyer in dealing with these things I'm sure.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from pinlawyer:

The damage to that WH2O isn't as bad as it looks. A furniture repair guy can fix that up.

That is true. Once you take that leg off, take off the bracket. Glue the shit out of that corner. Use some blocks and large clamps, and it will true up nice. Be just as strong as before. But get a hefty kickback first for your troubles and the fact that you have to fix it.

#50 5 years ago

With legs on shipping, the game is hand carried twice. Once when loaded on with the local pick-up and once when dropped off for delivery.

Meanwhile when the game is offloaded at the distribution center, a forklift is used. Then when loaded again a forklift is used. It reaches the destination distribution center, a forklift used to off load and then to load for local delivery.

How is it possible that the leg caused so much damage to the cabinet when the game is hand carried. The forklift
driver hit something low such as a pallet as he didn't lift the game high enough when he was moving the machine.
This isn't the first time this same type of damage has occurred with legs on shipping.

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