(Topic ID: 69404)

Nascar boot problem. Fixed.

By o-din

10 years ago


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#1 10 years ago

I have an intermittent boot problem on Nascar that sometimes requires pushing the reset button on the CPU after startup to get it to boot. This was a sample game that was delivered to a friend of mine with no CPU board, so a reman from Stern was sent to him, and the I purchased it from him shortly thereafter. It did this when I picked up the game,and many times thereafter, but now I want it fixed.

When the game is turned on L200 will not be lit and L204 on the I/O board will be blinking, and the playfield lights will be flashing. Push the reset button and the game boots right up. I have isolated the problem to the CPU board by installing a known good I/O board and also checking the 5v and the 3.3 volt at startup. They both come right up.I have also disconnected all other power circuits to verify it is not a short elsewhere.

After pulling out my hair for several months, I hired one of the best techs available to troubleshoot this for me. He rebuilt the 5v on the I/O board and replaced the PAL chip and the U413 watchdog, and tried a few other things, but to no avail.

The board looks good with no acid damage and no hacks, and all the solders look good. I am about to give up and order a new board, but I am hoping that maybe one of you has seen this issue before, and can direct me to the component that may be causing this problem. If I have to spend much more without fixing the problem, I may as well get a new board. Thank You.

#2 10 years ago

Was it something I said? Somebody must have fixed a problem like this before. A known good Whitestar board at a fair price would work too. I'm learning it's hard to actually tell if they are good or not. Any suggestions are appreciated.

#3 10 years ago

Had a South Park that would not boot up right and would start with the flashing lights and clicking relay.

Turns out after a lot of checking for continuity on the CPU board there was one leg on the game eprom chip that was not getting a good contact with the socket. There was the smallest bit of corrosion that was messing it up. Put on a new socket and all has been good ever since. I would start by checking the legs on that chip to points on the back of the board or test points with a DMM to make sure you have continuity through that socket.

I'm no expert, but that's what mine was. Good luck.

#4 10 years ago

Thank you. I have a new game rom coming, and I will check that again.

2 weeks later
#5 10 years ago

I have installed the new game rom and nothing has changed. The socket looks fine, as does the rest of the board. I now have another whitestar machine, so I am going to swap processor and ram chips to see if that makes a difference. If not, I will swap boards to verify it is the board before I smash it to pieces.

#6 10 years ago

You said you already swapped the board. And I don't think the suggestion was a new game rom. It was that in his case, a leg of the EEPROM wasn't making good contact. The solution would be reflowing solder or jumping traces.

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

You said you already swapped the board.

I swapped driver boards. I didn't have another CPU till now. Just can't find any bad connections anywhere, and neither could the tech. I think he has given up.

#8 10 years ago

So when you swapped "io board" you actually swapped the power board? And then it "came right up"?

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Nascar boot problem.

Read the title to this thread and immediately the image of a NASCAR race car sitting in pit row with a Denver boot on it popped into my head. Thought I'd share that with you. Now back to the actual thread...

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

So when you swapped "io board" you actually swapped the power board? And then it "came right up"?

The I/O board is the power driver board. The voltages are fine. I swapped boards to see if there might be a glitch. In both cases the voltages came up to spec immediately. The tech has worked on the CPU using all the knowledge he has regarding this CPU, including discussing this matter with Patrick at Stern.

#11 10 years ago

I would also suggest a chip not seating properly.

I just had my Corvette (wps95S) do similar things. One of the chips of the games rom wasn't contacting properly. I cleaned the chips legs and cleaned the socket with some quality Contact cleaner (oil free stuff!)

I also had my TSPP doing similar things yesterday. It was the power feed going to the CPU board. The molex connector on the bottom left hand side if the board. Those molexes can look fine but not be making good contact. I just cut em off and put on a new one. Takes 5 minutes. Plus clean the male connectors (on the board) with some fine sandpaper and then some contact cleaner to clean off all the residue.

Also check the neighbouring connector on the power board, as this has voltages coming in as well. And the ribbon cable that joins them. Again, a quality contact cleaner on the connectors and cables can work wonders.

Sorry I am not at home or I would give you the connector numbers that I am referring to.

Good luck O-din!

rd.

#12 10 years ago

Also .... From left of centre ... Check the plugs that come out of the transformer to the board. Again, those big connectors can go funky.

The TSPP I referenced had been in storage for a while, the jumper plug wasn't making good contact and it wouldn't fire up at all. One of the pins wasn't making contact. I pushed it back in, gave everything a contact clean and away it went.

rd.

#13 10 years ago

Thanks rd. I have been over those connectors repeatedly and have even swapped ribbon cables with another game. It seems the CPU is not sensing the 5v, although there is 5v on the CPU at startup. The watchdog has been replaced.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

The I/O board is the power driver board. The voltages are fine. I swapped boards to see if there might be a glitch. In both cases the voltages came up to spec immediately. The tech has worked on the CPU using all the knowledge he has regarding this CPU, including discussing this matter with Patrick at Stern.

Ok so it didnt work after swapping the power board. This is how your original post sort of read. You swapped the power board and "it came right up".

So if you completely remove the EEPROM and power up, does it behave the same way as it does when it acts up and before you hit reset? If so, I'd suspect the EEPROM socket, traces, etc

Also, is this a 5136 or 5300? I suspect a 5300 for NASCAR. Be aware if you try the older white star in a game that requires the 5300 board, it won't have sound.

#15 10 years ago

I have not tried to turn it on with the eprom out. Will it boot without one? This boot problem doesn't happen every time, but I have gotten good voltages at the times it didn't boot while I was testing it. I have a TSPP. I believe that is the same system. The watchdog, game rom, and pal chip didn't fix the problem, but I have been wary of the other chips involved. I just wish I knew which one it might be.

#16 10 years ago

I switched the actual CPU chip, and had 7 good startups, but 8 was not the charm. I'll keep trying.

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

I have not tried to turn it on with the eprom out. Will it boot without one? This boot problem doesn't happen every time, but I have gotten good voltages at the times it didn't boot while I was testing it. I have a TSPP. I believe that is the same system. The watchdog, game rom, and pal chip didn't fix the problem, but I have been wary of the other chips involved. I just wish I knew which one it might be.

I am pretty sure you won't see anything without the CPU chip installed.

Did you swap the CPU with your TSPP?

rd.

#18 10 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Did you swap the CPU with your TSPP?

Not yet. I'm eating leftover lasagna and contemplating doing that next or cracking open a bottle of Jack instead. Who know's, I may end up doing both, and then needing two whitestar boards.

#19 10 years ago

Man, after working on my TSPP for a couple of hours yesterday and getting a f**king good shock from a broken coil, I would definitely recommend going for the Jack ....

I'm hitting a few beers right now! It's 5.30pm on Friday.

In New Zealand we call that BEER O'CLOCK.

rd

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#20 10 years ago

I just switched the RAM chips, and both games are firing right up for now. I think I will leave it at that until the next fail.
Jack and Coke time!

#21 10 years ago

Oooooooh yeah!

I am coming to LA next April for a week or so, on the way to the IFPA in Denver.

It'd be cool to catch up with you and all the LA crew ....

rd.

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

It'd be cool to catch up with you and all the LA crew ....

You come on down rd! Don't pass thru here without lookin' me up.

#23 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

You come on down rd! Don't pass thru here without lookin' me up.

Book it in Ooooooooo-Din!

We arrive in LA on the 23rd April and will be there for 7 or 8 days.

Looking forward to it. I've been to LA a dozen times, but not since 2006.

rd.

#24 10 years ago

Just PM me when you get into town and let me know where you are staying. I just picked up a collector quality T-2 with a little board damage. Apparently those kids never changed the batteries in their toys. But it is fixed and plays fast. If only my Stern board with no visible damage would be so cooperative.
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#25 10 years ago

Looks like a good one!

The good news is you can buy a brand new WPC CPU for about $160.

Not worth repairing them if you can get a brand new one for that price.

rd.

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Looks like a good one!

It is! Nicest T-2 I have seen since I played a new one in the bar down the street 20 some years ago. This one is actually nicer. A fricken time capsule. I guess that's what happens when they get shoved off into a corner somewhere and forgotten. Wasn't high on my list, but it fits right in with the scheme of things. I like it! Come play it.

#27 10 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

Wasn't high on my list, but it fits right in with the scheme of things. I like it! Come play it.

And that I shall!!

I found an Apollo 13 like that a few weeks ago. Was not on my shopping list at all. It was in a guys shed and hadn't been played for a while.

Everything was nice except the powdercoat trim and legs had gone a little rusty.

$100 and they were all nice and black again! Winner!

rd.

#28 10 years ago

Back on topic. Since I switched the RAM chips last night, I have started up both machines 20+ times, and both have booted up every time. I don't really know how this chip fits into the scheme of things, but Nascar has a faster boot sequence than does TSPP. I had a feeling about this chip from the get go, due to the fact that this Nascar was once set up for Tournament, and the chip was a 5164, not a 6264 as required. Whether they are the same spec or not, I don't really know. But I have a 6264 on order.

#29 10 years ago

Hopefully that will fix it for you o-din!

rd.

#30 10 years ago

So far , so good. It hasn't booted up this many times in a row since I've owned it. But I'm still not holding my breath. Time to shop it out!

#31 10 years ago

On the plus side, Nascar is a fairly easy game to shop. A one hour tear-down. And I wasn't rushing.
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#32 10 years ago

That looks pretty minimilist O .... A nice easy one day shop job

rd.

#33 10 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

That looks pretty minimilist O .... A nice easy one day shop job

It is still booting, and it is staying. It is a lot of fun to play, and the code is complete.

#34 10 years ago

I don't think I have played a Nascar yet. I have played Grand Prix which is basically identical. Pretty cool when the ball loops around the outside of the playfield.

I'll play yours in April

rd

#35 10 years ago

I think Nascar is one of the most underrated games around that price point. I love mine and don't see it going anywhere anytime soon. Getting to wizard mode is a blast, and while its pretty tricky, it not impossible like some other games.

For me the most satisfying shots are hitting the rotating car and moving up a place. And also trying to drop the target on the right for champ letters and bonuses. Shooting the right ramp is also pretty satisfying for some reason.

#36 10 years ago

I really like it, not just because it is such a great layout and flows real smooth, but the theme is one I can relate to. We have been to a few races, and we used to hang out at home and have a Nascar pool during the race. The music during the game keeps you in the groove, and the callouts, for the most part, aren't too annoying.

I don't really get into a lot of the modern superhero or fantasy pins that everybody else seems to like, but I'm glad Stern made this one for tastes like mine.

#37 10 years ago

Nascar shop out coming along nicely. The playfield was cleaned with alcohol, polished with Novus 2, and waxed with Carnuba. Cointakers and a couple of Ablaze color changers under the slings have added new life to this classic machine.
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#38 10 years ago

And it still boots.

#39 10 years ago

Well, it's been a week now since I changed out the RAM chip, and Nascar has booted every time. Now to finish that shop job.

#40 10 years ago

You power bill will be in danger.

NASCAR has gotten twice the plays Spider-Man has over thanksgiving. These are people that make fun of NASCAR too.

#41 10 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

You power bill will be in danger.

Thank's Wolfmarsh. I even went back over the information you had provided months ago when trying to solve this problem. It has been almost a year trying to get the information needed to fix it without spending $500 on a new board. I hope this will help anybody else that encounters the same problem.

4 years later
#42 6 years ago

I have this resetting problem as well and will use your advice and experience to see if it fixes mine. I will update as soon as I do it. Gotta love Pinside for all the valuable information!!

1 week later
#43 6 years ago

So i finally got around to fixing my nascar.
Here is what is was doing - When you turned the game on it just flashed the controlled lamps on and off. If you hit the reset button on the cpu board the game would start up. so anytime you wanted to play the game you had to take the translite off and reset the CPU.
From what I researched I found it had to do with the navram chip the previous owner installed. this specific game would not work with a navram chip due to the power request taking too long to be processed by the chip? (that's a guess). I replaced it with an original chip and just put a battery pack back on and the game is working fine again.

#44 6 years ago

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#45 6 years ago

The picture below shows the board before I changed it. The button I am pointing to is the reset button I had to push to start a game every time I wanted to play it. The circled chip is what I replaced to rectify the problem. I also had to put a new battery pack on it since the old chip was replaced

#46 6 years ago

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#47 6 years ago

i just fixed a nascar as well. it was the 6264

#48 6 years ago
Quoted from Astill:

i just fixed a nascar as well. it was the 6264

And was your issue not booting up and the lights flashing?

#49 6 years ago

yes click... click... click..

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