(Topic ID: 58362)

My WoZ experience, first impressions, and lighting


By markmon

6 years ago



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  • 299 posts
  • 87 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by GaryMartin
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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There are 299 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 6.
#51 6 years ago

Thank for the heads up on playing in the dark. I play lights out 90% of the time. WOZ is on my wish list but my tech skills sucks. I am now not really wanting WOZ if I can not play the dam machine in the dark. Really sucks that I would have to add all the additional lighting. You did a great job on adding all those spot lights, but I think it would be hard for me.

#52 6 years ago

Just got my WoZ LE last night. My game room is dark as well and I agree its so hard to see, especially around the flippers. I'm going to wait and hope JJ adds some adjustments to the software. If not I'll have to add a couple lights to at least around the flipper area.

#53 6 years ago

I don't have WOZ yet and usually play with some lighting in my game room because I also found that many of my games were not that playable in a completely dark room.

We will have to see how the lighting on WOZ shakes out, but for those who prefer to play in a dark room, I don't imagine it would be too hard to make a basic controller tied into the GI that will turn an LED supply (or an existing supply point) on/off with the GI, if needed.

I don't know if it will be possible to add additional RGB GI lighting that changes colors with the existing GI. People on this forum do amazing stuff though.

#54 6 years ago

You could use something like this to wire into the existing spotlights. Would cost about the same as a cheap extension cord and the adapter.

http://www.trainaidsa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=58&products_id=110

I'm sure there's other stuff than this out there, but this is the one I've found and used before.

#55 6 years ago

I haven't tested on a WoZ or gotten under the hood of one, but if you want the added GI to turn on and off with the game GI, a PIG 2 might do the job.

You could use the PIG 2 to control the brightness of the additional GI as well.

#56 6 years ago

this might work

41uNeW1HpoL[1].jpg

#57 6 years ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

this might work

Classy!

#58 6 years ago
Quoted from Sunfox:

Yes, as soon as the GI is at a more comparable level to the inserts, the inserts will no longer seem so bright. A JJP employee said some time ago that WOZ's GI was only set at 36.5% of maximum brightness, so there's theoretically a lot more light they could be producing.

Y'know, there's no problem with overly bright inserts or lack of GI if you simply turn on a light or 2 in the room with the pinball machine! Does everybody here really play pinball in the dark? Best mod for a pinball room is to add indirect, dimmable lighting. Really. Or any lighting at all, I guess.

Quoted from Jvspin:

I don't have WOZ yet and usually play with some lighting in my game room because I also found that many of my games were not that playable in a completely dark room.

Ah, common sense! Thanks! Far better than throwing tons of aftermarket hacks into a new game, imo.

#59 6 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

I haven't tested on a WoZ or gotten under the hood of one, but if you want the added GI to turn on and off with the game GI, a PIG 2 might do the job.
You could use the PIG 2 to control the brightness of the additional GI as well.

Does anyone near Woodstock, IL, have a WoZ we could do some basic tests on to see if the PIG 2 would do the job?

#60 6 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Y'know, there's no problem with overly bright inserts or lack of GI if you simply turn on a light or 2 in the room with the pinball machine! Does everybody here really play pinball in the dark? Best mod for a pinball room is to add indirect, dimmable lighting. Really. Or any lighting at all, I guess.

what about when we play outside at night

#61 6 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Does everybody here really play pinball in the dark?

To hard to move around after that many beers in the light...let alone pitch black.

#62 6 years ago

I only play in the dark at home, 96% of the time anyhow...Markmon your lighting upgrade looks great

#63 6 years ago
Quoted from ChadH:

Does anyone near Woodstock, IL have a WoZ we could do some basic tests on to see if the PIG 2 would do the job?

You are welcome to come by and test it out on mine.

#64 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

To hard to move around after that many beers in the light...let alone pitch black.

Which is why I have 2 circuits of dimmable lighting in my gameroom (wall sconces and a track light). And a kegerator. Mellow lighting and you can see the playfield in all the different types of games. Even after all those beers.

#65 6 years ago
Quoted from muttonboy:

You could use something like this to wire into the existing spotlights. Would cost about the same as a cheap extension cord and the adapter.
http://www.trainaidsa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=58&products_id=110
I'm sure there's other stuff than this out there, but this is the one I've found and used before.

Thank you very much! That thing looks perfect. I'll order up one and try to get something put together.

#66 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinchroma:

I don't believe that will be possible as the lights are controlled.

True, but could they not be tied into the controlled 12V spotlight circuit (drive 76)? Those are cut off when the GI is supposed to be completely out. Now, if there are issues adding additional power draw, could not some sort of relay circuit be designed to control any number of additional lights/power draw desired?

Quoted from StevenP:

Does everybody here really play pinball in the dark?

I do. It's my favorite way to play, and I have had zero trouble with my eyes and the general illumination levels provided by TSPP, BSM and BDK while in a pitch black room (with only the one game on, too). Of course, all 3 of those games also have 10 GI bulbs in the backboard to help illuminate the general field - newer Sterns have half as many.

#67 6 years ago
Quoted from Sunfox:

Now, if there issues adding additional power draw, could not some sort of relay circuit be designed to control any number of additional lights/power draw desired?

The PIG 2 is that circuit. It will take any other circuit's signals and use it to drive other devices.

I sent a PM to Gweempose about testing the PIG 2 on the WoZ. I'm interested in seeing how they handled switches and GI. I'm a little worried that the RGB serial addressed inserts wont work with the PIG 2, but something like GI and Switches should be OK.

Does WoZ use a switch matrix or have they cracked the serial switching nut?

Mike

#68 6 years ago
Quoted from muttonboy:

You could use something like this to wire into the existing spotlights. Would cost about the same as a cheap extension cord and the adapter.
http://www.trainaidsa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=58&products_id=110
I'm sure there's other stuff than this out there, but this is the one I've found and used before.

That's a slick little module, too bad it only puts out 4.5 watts. ;(

#69 6 years ago
Quoted from Sunfox:

True, but could they not be tied into the controlled 12V spotlight circuit (drive 76)? Those are cut off when the GI is supposed to be completely out. Now, if there issues adding additional power draw, could not some sort of relay circuit be designed to control any number of additional lights/power draw desired?

That switched 12v GI in the spotlight circuit is what I plan to use for my additions. Going to use a 12vdc 5050 strip at the top of the backboard and then 13v flasher LEDs from Cointaker in a couple spots on the slings.

#70 6 years ago
Quoted from dkpinball:

The PIG 2 is that circuit. It will take any other circuit's signals and use it to drive other devices.
I sent a PM to Gweempose about testing the PIG 2 on the WoZ. I'm interested in seeing how they handled switches and GI. I'm a little worried that the RGB serial addressed inserts wont work with the PIG 2, but something like GI and Switches should be OK.
Does WoZ use a switch matrix or have they cracked the serial switching nut?
Mike

On WOZ, the GI is made up of serial addressed RGB LEDs just like the inserts - save for exactly 3 white LED spotlights on a single controlled 12V circuit. That's going to be the absolute only way to tap into something that gives you definitive "lights on" or "lights off" status.

Also, It's still a switch matrix, though twice as big. The manual for WOZ is available online; it might pay to download a copy.

#71 6 years ago

The dim GI is annoying. I like to play in the dark, but can't play WOZ with the lights out. The LEDS are already really bright and the GI is almost not there. They have some smart people working at JJP. I am hopeful that a solution will be found.

Even my BW and Stern games that I converted to LED's, I left the GI all 47s.

#72 6 years ago
Quoted from Sunfox:

The manual for WOZ is available online; it might pay to download a copy.

Link?

#73 6 years ago
Quoted from Vyzer2:

this might work

lol

trollin.jpg

#74 6 years ago

Added 2 high output 12V spots at the bottom of the slings tonight. Made a huge difference.

image.jpg

#75 6 years ago

Hhhmm.....im not digging the spot lights, looks tacky. Just my opinion, i realize you folks are just trying the make the best you can with what you have. Looks like it works but i hope there is a better solution.

#76 6 years ago
Quoted from pinstyle:

Hhhmm.....im not digging the spot lights, looks tacky. Just my opinion, i realize you folks are just trying the make the best you can with what you have. Looks like it works but i hope there is a better solution.

So your saying all the new Sterns look"tacky"with spot lights? It's the way it's done now days.

#77 6 years ago
Quoted from Breadfan:

So your saying all the new Sterns look"tacky"with spot lights? It's the way it's done now days.

Actually those are you're words making a Stern reference.

It is a surprise that a machine with lots of LED's needs extra lighting out of the box. Hopefully something can be done at the factory level (code / hardware) to make it brighter.

#78 6 years ago

Part of the issue is that the led inserts are too overpowering. If the inserts, esp the yellow brick road can be turned down a bit, it might help in the overall gi currently on machine.

#79 6 years ago

From what I hear JJ will be releasing a new version of software that will allow us to set the GI level. Two things for me.
1.) I hope this makes the next software release which is due out soon I think
2.) The GI will need to be bright enough to make a big difference (whatever that means to you)

incidentally I went through all the GI LED's and found a couple that where not lined up with the insert under the playfield. It did not make a huge difference but it may after the software change. Something if you have a WOZ you may want to check out.

#80 6 years ago

I thought GI was already adjustable and a previous update boosted the levels by default? What we really need is adjustable insert lights, individually adjustable ones would be even better.

#81 6 years ago
Quoted from Breadfan:

So your saying all the new Sterns look"tacky"with spot lights? It's the way it's done now days.

No disrespect to your effort breadfan, its deffinatly one solution, i just dont care for it much and it has its inherrent issues.

Im not all familiar with many Stern games but isnt spotlights used in general to illuminate things above the playfield, not the playfield surface itself?

#82 6 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Actually those are you're words making a Stern reference.
It is a surprise that a machine with lots of LED's needs extra lighting out of the box. Hopefully something can be done at the factory level (code / hardware) to make it brighter.

Not a surprise at all. It's contrast ratio. Brighter lights in PF mean you need brighter lights shining down on them, hence spotlights

Quoted from pinstyle:

No disrespect to your effort breadfan, its deffinatly one solution, i just dont care for it much and it has its inherrent issues.
Im not all familiar with many Stern games but isnt spotlights used in general to illuminate things above the playfield, not the playfield surface itself?

No, not always. Many times they will add one or two to really dark areas of games for the playfield

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from cal50:

Actually those are you're words making a Stern reference.
It is a surprise that a machine with lots of LED's needs extra lighting out of the box. Hopefully something can be done at the factory level (code / hardware) to make it brighter.

Thank you Cal50, im not sure where Breadfans Stern comment came from. Didnt mean to hurt his feelings, he did a good job its just not where i would want to see spotlights mounted. Its just my opinion which matters about as much as anyone elses opinion when it come to his machine.

#84 6 years ago

GI lighting is there to light up the playfield, the plastics and the ball itself. If the light is coming from below the playfield, it really can't function correctly. GI light either should protrude through the playfield or be mounted above in spot lights or on the backboard. A cool solution would be fixed light tubes in the shape of a bulb under the plastics that are lit underneath the playfield by surface mount LEDs.

A cool mod for the design errors evident in WoZ would be apron mounted LED spotlights like are found in the Metallica Premium and LE. Those really work great and do not block the view like a normal spot. Only problem is they won't be controlled by the software. I have gotten used to playing in the dark a lot, so hopefully JJP will make sure future games have better GI lighting.

#85 6 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

A cool solution would be fixed light tubes in the shape of a bulb under the plastics that are lit underneath the playfield by surface mount LEDs.

That is what WOZ has. The LEDs for the GI are on circuit boards and the light comes up through a plastic tube under the plastics. It looks similar to a light bulb when you look between the plastics and the playfield surface. The question is whether they have the ability to brighten them to a level that will provide enough light to play in dark rooms without having to add more lights such as Markmon has done.

#86 6 years ago

Could someone post a picture of what these GI plastic tubes look like up-close? I'm just curious more than anything.

#87 6 years ago

Pictures:

WOZ_light_tube.jpg WOZ_light_tube2.jpg

#88 6 years ago

Another:

WOZ_GI.jpg

#89 6 years ago

Interesting way to do things. Sort of reinventing the wheel there. I can see why they have done it this way, so you can change the colour of the GI with the CPU controlled LED boards.

I hope they can crank the lux out of those LED boards though. The GI does look very dark from the pix I have seen.

rd.

#90 6 years ago

Very cool! I didn't even notice them and I had a good long look at WOZ last weekend. Looks like a little more frosting and a little brighter lighting might help throw some more light out onto the playfield.

#91 6 years ago

The light tube works, now to see how much you can crank up the LED output.

#92 6 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Very cool! I didn't even notice them and I had a good long look at WOZ last weekend. Looks like a little more frosting and a little brighter lighting might help throw some more light out onto the playfield.

Another option would be to use variations of the frosted tubes, maybe even (semi-)clear ones for more brightness. They would be easily replaceable and cheap. I'll wait to see what will be done via software first before altering the stock components, tho. (OK, I'll also wait to get my WOZ before modding ANYTHING! )

#93 6 years ago

Interesting blog from a Woz owner that identifies some quality control issues may be contributing to low GI.. see below as it may help some of you until software is fixed.

http://www.pinplay.com/4/weak_gi_on_woz_there_could_be_a_good_reason_for_that.html

#94 6 years ago

Wow, that's an interesting find.

#95 6 years ago
Quoted from JoeJet:

Interesting blog from a Woz owner that identifies some quality control issues may be contributing to low GI.. see below as it may help some of you until software is fixed.
http://www.pinplay.com/4/weak_gi_on_woz_there_could_be_a_good_reason_for_that.html

Thanks for that link! I'm going to have to check out my game to see if any of mine are not aligned properly.

#96 6 years ago

That is a good find! If software doesn't improve and realignment doesn't do the trick I wonder if some of the guys that make acrylic stuff could make clear tubes with some facets for better refraction

#97 6 years ago
Quoted from Erik:

That is a good find! If software doesn't improve and realignment doesn't do the trick I wonder if some of the guys that make acrylic stuff could make clear tubes with some facets for better refraction

Without question, somebody should be able to come up with a modded tube design that will work better.

#98 6 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Without question, somebody should be able to come up with a modded tube design that will work better.

Exactly! If the software fix doesn't work as good as needed I'm sure someone will come up with a good aftermarket solution. I'm not worried about it.

#99 6 years ago

I was looking at the light board schematic and LED driver datasheet and it looks like you might be able to add an RGB LED in series with an existing GI RGB LED so that the new one would run the same power and color. Unfortunately it would require modification to the single GI board and an external supply (or you may be able to tap off of the 12V).

Could be an opportunity for an aftermarket mod.

#100 6 years ago

Great discussion with some awesome ideas and fixes. Thanks to all that have contributed so far. Should be a very useful thread for WOZ owners.

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