(Topic ID: 66921)

My thoughts on the MM announcement


By Pinmeister

5 years ago



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  • 254 posts
  • 139 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by jfh
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 254 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
#151 5 years ago
Quoted from pinmods:

It's honestly just so damn sad that ANYONE would see this as a bad thing.

I agree. I've got a decent chunk of change sunk into a TC AFM restoration, but if these guys put out a remake I'd still be happy that more people can play this awesome game.

#152 5 years ago

Hahaha, sorry but I never saw -71 on a post.

You can no longer support this hobby ? Wow I did not know we were philanthropists. I thought that we played pinball to have fun.

You collectors should sell us your pin asap cause with more and more people coming in with deeper and deeper pockets we all want the top 20 in our basemen, remake or originals, we just want to play them till they explodes.

Just joking but this is silly. Stocks make money not pinballs. It's sad to have a MM in prestine condition in the basemen without playing it. All new people in this hobby want is a chance to play the best machines pinball has to offer without paying $15000 for the scarcity of the machine as a collectible. Just for fun without paying someone a large sum of money for the right to.

#153 5 years ago

Let's look at what we would expect to happen. Stern and JJP will feel a small impact, but not all 1000 buyers would have bought those machines. The people buying at $8k were not willing to buy at $13k, or they'd have one already and driven prices much higher. Higher prices stagnate the market and prohibit new customers from entering. Some of the 1000 new owners will sell machines to make room or generate funds...the dump of pins in the supply chain helps stimulate buying as prices drop due to increased supply.

The overall pin market will be more active, which is far from a bad thing...

#154 5 years ago

when was the last time this many different pins were in production at once?

#155 5 years ago

I own a MM and I am happy people will get a pinball machine they want. I have a couple of friends that purchased one that probably would not have had a chance before. I can only report how I feel, and I honestly feel good about the announcement. I obviously realize my machine is worth a little less than it was yesterday, but I don't plan on selling it anyways.

and....

I am equally empathetic to the people who recently bought a MM and are upside down. With supply and demand one group was going to win, and one group was going to lose. Why anybody would be happy over another persons misfortune is beyond me.

#156 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I have an HUO MM that I bought NIB in August 1997 with about 1500 plays. Perfect playfield, perfect cabinet. Now for sale if any purist wants it.
I don't know of any other one owner HUO MMs (other than a couple NIBs that have sold recently).

You must have a small group of friends Me and a friend both got MM from Betson's back in the day. Full silk screened cabs etc... people thought I was nuts to spend $3400 or so on a pinball machine. It's never left my living room since. Also bought CV nib and MB from the same place.

I did sell the MB years later but unlike your MM... mine is not for sale lol Awesome they are remaking these for everybody - I'm just glad some things I've bought have actually held their value. Sure didn't expect them to when I bought 'em

#157 5 years ago

Oh man. I love reading rich folk whine. Plz. Continue crying for my pleasure.

#158 5 years ago

This is so awesome!

#159 5 years ago
Quoted from mrbillishere:

Yes there is a positive correlation between rarity and price.

Honestly, not really in pinball.

TAF had more than 20,000 made, and it has consistently been one of the most expensive older games.

Popeye Save the Earth is the rarest "SuperPin" and also the cheapest.

One of the things that I love about pinball is RARELY is there ANY correlation between price and rarity. You want what you remember, which means the more there are / were, the more it's usually worth!

#160 5 years ago

This thread is sillier than a clown's dick. Put down your top hat and monocle and go play some pinball.

#161 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

This is so awesome!

lollll, i think i saw that same line somewhere.... in a few threads.

#162 5 years ago

WOW! It has been a really great day here on Pinside.

Time for another beer.

#163 5 years ago

Now that MMLE is sold out has the value of MMLE not gone up?

Might even become more desirable than a Williams MM

#164 5 years ago
Quoted from jalpert:

I personally don't agree with it, my NIB MM purchase sort of proves that, but I also understand where Pinmeister is coming from. A lot of hard work, patience and dedication was put into acquiring MM for a LOT of people. I can fully understand the negative feelings some of those people have. More people will own MMs, supply and demand says the value will go down, but maybe, just maybe to the old owners, it feels just a little less special now. You can't always help your feelings, weather they be right or wrong, and in this case it's up for debate.

I understand cherishing something rare and elusive that you have hunted down for years, saved from a salvage heap, lovingly restored with your own two hands, blood, sweat and tears- paying attention to every little detail to create the most perfect specimen ever dreamed of. That cherished beautiful thing should now be priceless to you...

Guessing that most of the investors who spent 12K and up on their MM's did none of these things- they only found an overpriced pin for sale and did the manual labor of writing a big fat check.

Pinball is not going to die because collectors may lose money on their investments! It will die because no one new falls in love with the thrill of smashing those silverballs. Repeating what someone else said, but if a few of these repros make it as routed games it will only help the hobby thrive. If the endeavor is successful it should be a boon to every single person connected in the pinball web.

#166 5 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

This is so awesome!

You forgot to logout and back in with your other account! So busted!!!

#167 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinmeister:

I just sent the following to my distributor:

Please cancel my STLE order.

With all that is going on with classic and valuable games being re-released, I have decided to keep my collection in its present state and make no further game purchases for the foreseeable future. It is possible that I may liquidate my collection before AFM, MB, and CC are re-released, destroying their value. It is only a matter of time that Stern begins releasing an LE2 version of its more popular LE games destroying any potential for appreciation. Due to the greed of the powers that be (Planetary Pinball), who have decided to destroy the value of my classic games, I can no longer support the hobby. Perhaps it is time for pinball to finally die.

- 106 thumbs down, could it actually the highest number thumbs down.

#168 5 years ago

This new pin will be good for every one except speculators. Players will think this is just great.

Now I am off, to go to play some EM's. Have fun.

#169 5 years ago
Quoted from MSH:

Guessing that most of the investors who spent 12K and up on their MM's did none of these things- they only found an overpriced pin for sale and did the manual labor of writing a big fat check.

I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but I would venture that most people that can write a check for that amount have jobs. The perception that MM owners look like the character from Planter's Peanuts and have velvet ropes draped around their pins is inaccurate, but kind of funny. Every person in the hobby I know, regardless of how much money they make, earned the money to buy their pins.

I do agree with your assessment that it is a good thing that will bring even more people into the hobby.

#170 5 years ago

I think the post was a troll/sarcasm attempt... the guy couldn't have figured he'd get any sympathy from this crowd right?

Funniest post of the day by far though.

#171 5 years ago

He is right. These remakes will absolutely ruin this hobby.

They have to stop this remake run. I think they ought to stop remaking replacement parts too. Fewer games and parts. That would really make this hobby awesome.

I can't imagine anyone would want to play these games now.

This is exactly what ruined beanie babies for me.

#172 5 years ago

Isn't Chevy building Z28s again this year, you can't put a bad spin on that!

#173 5 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

I own a MM and I am happy people will get a pinball machine they want. I have a couple of friends that purchased one that probably would not have had a chance before. I can only report how I feel, and I honestly feel good about the announcement. I obviously realize my machine is worth a little less than it was yesterday, but I don't plan on selling it anyways.
and....
I am equally empathetic to the people who recently bought a MM and are upside down. With supply and demand one group was going to win, and one group was going to lose. Why anybody would be happy over another persons misfortune is beyond me.

Well said Jim, especially the last sentence. I've been amazed at some of the crap that I've seen from Pinsider's today. Lots of really petty and divisive stuff.

Quoted from Russo121:

Oh man. I love reading rich folk whine. Plz. Continue crying for my pleasure.

Case in point.

(got 4 thumbs up too!)

Quoted from MSH:Deleted post

And another.

#174 5 years ago
Quoted from Russo121:

Oh man. I love reading rich folk whine. Plz. Continue crying for my pleasure.

If you really want to look at it from a different angle, 99% of the people I know would consider the people dropping 8k on something you can't drive to work in as too rich to relate to.

Everybody in this hobby is insane to the average person, and we need to stop acting like only a small percentage is.

#175 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinmeister:

Many of you may be glad to see the higher end collectors values destroyed and enjoy your chance to own an MM, CC, MB etc.
Enjoy the decline.

No one wants to see you loose money but at the same time it's not much of a hobby if only an elite few (mostly middle aged men) can afford to drop 8K+ on a popular theme. With an investment\hoarding mindset, the hobby will certainly decline as owner's ultimately pass away (worst case..)

For the hobby to flourish, there needs to be a strong base of new fans which means having a lot more quality pins accessible to the public. Increased production makes that possible.

Can you imagine if only the wealthy could afford to have cars, computers, cell phones, etc....

#176 5 years ago

These remakes could be turds? I wouldn't throw away the originals just quite yet !

#177 5 years ago
Quoted from JAXPinball:

No one wants to see you loose money but at the same time it's not much of a hobby if only an elite few (mostly middle aged men) can afford to drop 8K+ on a popular theme.

Except that is the price, not counting tax, of a new MM. In California, it really is a 9k price. Games are still priced too far out for the average person to afford them. Instead of paying 12k for a used one, people now can purchase a new one for 9k.

This hasn't changed the demographics of ownership, it has just changed what affluent pinball collectors are going to buy this year; a NIB Stern, JJP, or MMR?

Best case scenario is that some of these end up on route to attract new people to the hobby, but even then, I don't see a true price adjustment bringing pinball to the masses.

I had a deposit on 5 years ago on another MM remake and then it was only 5k to get one.

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

I own a MM and I am happy people will get a pinball machine they want. I have a couple of friends that purchased one that probably would not have had a chance before. I can only report how I feel, and I honestly feel good about the announcement. I obviously realize my machine is worth a little less than it was yesterday, but I don't plan on selling it anyways.
and....
I am equally empathetic to the people who recently bought a MM and are upside down. With supply and demand one group was going to win, and one group was going to lose. Why anybody would be happy over another persons misfortune is beyond me.

You nailed it Jim! I'm happy for others with this announcement, and I don't take enjoyment over someone's misfortune. By the time I get my MM set up the way I want I will have far more money in it than it would ever resell for, but to me that's fine. Truth be told, that would be the case if they hadn't been remade! Now it's just taken to a new level I don't have plans to sell, but I realize that my whims change and if I do I may end up losing quite a bit. In the end, I realize that's the price of entry for me. I pay hundreds or even thousands of dollars to lease pins, for lack of a better term. Am I "doing it wrong"? Sure, if profit is the criterion. Trying different pins, setting them up the way I like, that's the hobby for me.

To everyone that ordered a new MM, congrats, it's a great game and you'll love it!

#179 5 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

This hasn't changed the demographics of ownership,

What percentage of new production pins go into man caves vs. out in route?

#180 5 years ago

Its gotten to the point where people only wanted a MM just to have it as a status symbol in their collections just so they can show photo's of their game rooms on the various forums, invite other pinhead's over, or just plain brag to anyone that will listen and say, "look at me and how cool I am for having this title in my collection". Just like having that expensive European luxury car or exotic car parked in the garage.

Now, many people that truly wanted to enjoy the opportunity to own a MM for themselves and actually play the shit out of it without worrying about value will now have the opportunity which is the way it should be. It tickles me that many others now have a good opportunity to own this title without having to break the bank and now can stop having a what if I had a MM or dreaming about it being a title they could own. I also love to hear of these whiners about their poor MM has gone down in value. Poor you.

#181 5 years ago
Quoted from ChevelleSSguy:

Its gotten to the point where people only wanted a MM just to have it as a status symbol in their collections just so they can show photo's of their game rooms on the various forums, invite other pinhead's over, or just plain brag to anyone that will listen and say, "look at me and how cool I am for having this title in my collection".

Really, that's the only reason people want it? No one likes to play it?

#182 5 years ago

My only thought here is they must have thought it was worth it when they bought it, and if they no longer think it's worth it, then that's in their own mind. When I had mine, I determined I could not justify that any old pinball machine could be more valuable than the price of a new machine, so I sold it, and never went that route again.

#183 5 years ago

hehehe....

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#184 5 years ago
Quoted from Darcy:

To the true collector the original pin in A-1 condition should not drop in value. The Continuation Pins will be lower in price. The continuation pins will not be identical. Serial numbers and labelling inside or on the back will be different.

Nope, originals will go down in price regardless of condition.

#185 5 years ago

So is this the beginning of the..........

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#186 5 years ago
Quoted from kmoore88:

Nope, originals will go down in price regardless of condition.

If the remakes are limited to 1000. They will sell out very soon. The original MM that are in A-1 shape will not drop to drastically. A price drop of 10 to 20%, maybe. If the original pins drop below the price of a remake then something is really wrong with this hobby. Quality can out weigh quantity. Keep the faith man.
People who speculated on MM pins, were they playing them daily? I doubt that. Just like the Muscle Car increase, then the fall of value. As some people bought stuff they did not really enjoy having, and bailed on their investment. The people buying the remakes today, might be pinball players who wanted one in their collection. Some of them maybe speculating on the limited supply too. Just my opinion, and I can appreciate your opinion.

#187 5 years ago

this is truly going to be an exciting next 12 months watching this market absorb this much change at once.

#188 5 years ago

5 to 10 years from now first edition will be worth far more than the remake. Just like kit cars. A collector will pay for more far the real thing, than a remake. Just hold on to it for a bit longer. Or if your a bit older cash out now.

#189 5 years ago
Quoted from seatownpinhead:

5 to 10 years from now first edition will be worth far more than the remake. Just like kit cars. A collector will pay for more far the real thing, than a remake. Just hold on to it for a bit longer. Or if your a bit older cash out now.

I disagree but respect your opinion. I would pay more for a brand new one guess it is a good thing I don't have to. To each their own. Just because value may dip a bit doesn't mean it's not one of the best pins ever made.

Please all lets try to keep this discussion respectful we will all have our different takes on things but we love the same thing Pinball and that is all that really matters.

#190 5 years ago
Quoted from seatownpinhead:

5 to 10 years from now first edition will be worth far more than the remake. Just like kit cars. A collector will pay for more far the real thing, than a remake. Just hold on to it for a bit longer. Or if your a bit older cash out now.

interesting insight...
i wonder what other analogies we could draw from, that could provide similar or different possible forecasts?

#191 5 years ago
Quoted from jimjim66:

I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but I would venture that most people that can write a check for that amount have jobs. The perception that MM owners look like the character from Planter's Peanuts and have velvet ropes draped around their pins is inaccurate, but kind of funny. Every person in the hobby I know, regardless of how much money they make, earned the money to buy their pins.

I was responding to the idea that some owners may feel their MM is 'less special' now- and directly about people putting in a lot of hard work and dedication to acquire it. My original thought was that these collectors were combing the hillsides for years looking for pins and then finally stumbled upon their trophy. Upon rereading I can see the thought may have been that some people worked their asses off at 3 jobs, eating only ramen noodles for two years so that they could save money for this pin. Even with that understanding it only reinforces my opinion.

My thoughts are if this game is such a Holy Grail then it should be a keeper and its potential decline in value should be meaningless. It shouldn't matter if you paid 1K or 25K. Also doesn't matter if you earned the money to pay for it by digging ditches or performing plastic surgery.

I'm sorry, despicable me feels zero sympathy for someone who laid out way too much money for a pinball machine and is now upset that it is declining in value. If you bought it with the intention of making profit off of it at a later date then you really don't love MM for it's own sake, it was never a Holy Grail game for you and you have contributed to the ridiculous pricing of ALL pins that we are all suffering for in the here and now. If you took a leap of faith that you would break even on it if the day ever came that you were forced to sell it for financial reasons, I feel sorry for you only because you don't have good sense when it comes to money. I am certainly not happy about anyone's misfortunes, however I don't even think this qualifies as misfortune to begin with. Let's hope that MM earns its own pinball karma by helping to deflate the current market of pinvestors so that pinballers can get a fair chance on buying games again at a fair price.

#192 5 years ago

Cant wait to see it on location down at the local pub, my mates are going to love it, I can see them really getting into it, and there not pinheads, just like a fun game, and medieval madness is number one for a reason its awesome, so I think its great that the general public get to see and play the game at there own leisure. Sure theres people who are going to see it and say "I remember this from back in the day" an really get into it, because they have access to it, definatly feel bad for collectors who might take a loss from the re-issue, but really happy that you might be able to run into one on location that's new an working well.

#193 5 years ago

What op is going to buy an 8k machine to put in a pub? Heck they won't even spring for a 5k new Stern

#194 5 years ago
Quoted from Manic:

You must have a small group of friends Me and a friend both got MM from Betson's back in the day. Full silk screened cabs etc... people thought I was nuts to spend $3400 or so on a pinball machine. It's never left my living room since. Also bought CV nib and MB from the same place.
I did sell the MB years later but unlike your MM... mine is not for sale lol Awesome they are remaking these for everybody - I'm just glad some things I've bought have actually held their value. Sure didn't expect them to when I bought 'em

At the time, my friends weren't in to pinball and thought I was nuts. My wife thought I was a little nuts, but she chalked it up to a "mid life crisis" (she changed her tune on MM and loves it) and my daughter thought I was the coolest Dad ever.

But paying that much for a game then (at least for me) was a bit crazy when I could have bought 3 or 4 great games for the same price.

#195 5 years ago

This hobby is like collectable books. The snobs that don't read but collect for vale inflate the first edition prices while people who what to read the books buy the others for pennies on the dollar. Now only if the reruns were pennies on the dollar like books. That would be something. The collectors can have their originals. I just want to play the game.

#196 5 years ago

"no remake game will ever hurt the value of a original game.no matter what."

Remember the introduction of the home gaming console in the 80s? Not only did it hurt the value of original games, it obliterated a multi-billion dollar industry. And that was for terrible knock offs of games. Remember how bad "space invaders" was on Atari?

Personally, collectors (basically a version of hoarding and material idolization, which could require therapy) can pack it up and go home. You are like the speculators in the home business in my state of Florida. Laughing your way to the bank every time you bought a property, put some money into it, then cashed out for 10s of thousands. Then crying for a bailout and bank misconduct when you got caught holding the bag of properties at an exaggerated value that folks smartened up and refused to buy. Speculators who artificially inflated the housing market, and made it unaffordable for many. So while you may believe you are "priveleged to own such a prized piece of history," the true priveleged would refer to you as idiots.

I hate seeing "collector quality" pins advertised with "only 110 plays." Play them. Don't idolize them. I enjoy the hobby of tearing down, personally restoring, repairing and playing every machine I own. That is how to get enjoyment out of a hobby.

.....just my opinion. To each their own.

#197 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

At the time, my friends weren't in to pinball and thought I was nuts. My wife thought I was a little nuts, but she chalked it up to a "mid life crisis" (she changed her tune on MM and loves it) and my daughter thought I was the coolest Dad ever.
But paying that much for a game then (at least for me) was a bit crazy when I could have bought 3 or 4 great games for the same price.

Hey we *are* the coolest Dads ever That's the least we can expect for the $$$ and for wrestling these things into the house... and most of my friends still look at me a little funny when they see the machines lined up - can't convert everybody.

#198 5 years ago

BEST WHINING THREAD EVER.

image-50.jpg
#199 5 years ago

I think it will hurt the value of an original. If the remake is as good as the original or better. Newer hardware lower voltages, no burnt gi connectors a few things that would make it better then the original. I would agree with the above, a big bubble burst for the pin hobby. It was only a matter of time.

#200 5 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

BEST WHINING THREAD EVER.

image-50.jpg 14 KB

Wow, looks like everyone and their mom has stolen my pic.

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