(Topic ID: 97809)

My Second EM and First Gottlieb - 1972 King Rock - Finished! w/ photos


By dtown

5 years ago



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#1 5 years ago

SIXTEEN Decagon Score Reels to clean! I think that just about sums it up. Wow. Much more time consuming than a Williams. Though, I do appreciate the build quality...and the bigger score numbers. You kinda get into a routine while doing them though. Ya know...like a robot. Remove score reel, remove E-clip, remove washer, remove four machine screws, peel back Bakelite plate...etc.

Well I got this King Rock along with a Liberty Bell for fixing a guy's Aztec. Due to space constraints I'm probably going to sell this one as soon as I'm done so I'm working on it first to make space. Got the Liberty Bell and Top Card sitting and waiting.

First step was to remove the back glass, clean the front with glass cleaner and the back with a damp sponge. The back glass is really nice with no flaking. Maybe a few tiny pinholes but really nice nonetheless.

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#2 5 years ago

Next I moved onto the back box and, man, did that take a while. The score reels, the four player unit and a bound up credit unit. I really gotta give credit to Clay Harrell's PinballNinja videos for pointing out the importance of removing the nut from the shoulder bolt on these stepper unit's before trying to take the screw out. Yea, you gotta be careful with them. I did buy some extras from PB Resource in case I broke one but so far so good. Then onto the guts inside the cabinet. Wow, were they dirty. Several hours spent just cleaning the coin door. Not perfect but I think it turned out good. The power switch was bound up so...I broke it. New one in bound from Action Pinball along with new flipper switches. The pads on the old ones were just about gone.

220k games......WOW!
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Before
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After
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#3 5 years ago

Wish I would have took a before shot of the coin door. It was coated in rust. Not too bad now. Gotta paint the start button still.

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#6 5 years ago

I'm onto the playfield and found two wires that were cut. I think they may go to the under playfield mini stepper unit. Before I go all crazy and spend bucks on a schematic I gotta ask the EM group...DID GOTTLIEB EVER CUT WIRES ON A GAME THAT WERE NOT USED? Meaning, could this have come this way from the factory?

Ewww...pretty dirty. Not for long.
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In the center of the photo. Could they have been cut from the factory?
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If not, do they go to this mini stepper?
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#10 5 years ago

Thanks for help guys. PM's sent to other King Rock owners and I'll get a schematic with my next PBR order. One thing I'd like to point out is none of the wire colors on the male jones plug match the female colors. Shouldn't they all match? Could someone have put a replacement male plug in without using the original wires?

The AS relay does have a "dig" mark on one of the boards where it looks like the little rotating nubs got stuck. I've cleaned, sanded and applied a light coating of PBR grease and there's enough brass there to make contact. Come to think of it the "F" identifying sticker on this unt is different than the others. Could this whole unit have been replaced and that's why the wires were cut? Nonetheless, those two wires gotta be for something that's not going to work properly.

#15 5 years ago

Alright. We can forget about the wire colors that lead from the male plug to the AS relay. The relay may be the original but the male plug(s) (they used four single plugs as well) is definitely not the original. I took photos of what I need to see.

As you can see the wire colors do not match up. From what I can tell from FRB's photo the wires on the one side of the relay mech look to match up to their corresponding colors on the female connector.
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#16 5 years ago

I'd still like to know if the rest of the connected wires match up correctly so, if you have more pictures of where they go please post. Specifically I'm looking for the two that are not connected. If you're looking at the table from the side where the AS relay is it would be the top right wire and the third from the top on the left side. Remember, forget about the colors on my male plug. They're wrong. Use the ones on the female.

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Third from the top on left. The one that's blue with white stripes.
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#17 5 years ago

Here's my AS relay. As you can see all the lugs are used on one side but only two are used on the other. I suspect that these two wires go to two of the lugs on this side but don't know for sure. C and 9 are the only ones connected on this side.

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#20 5 years ago
Quoted from Bangagong85:

From the picture above, it doesn't look like there are any leaf switches behind your stepper unit. I don't have my machine with me, but I pulled off my stepper unit and have that with me. The two wires in your picture above (top right and 3rd down on the left) both go to the two leaf switches behind the bakelite board. I'd be happy to take some pictures and get be more descriptive if it helps.

Yes please. I'll have to reassemble a switch stack there.

#21 5 years ago

Well apparently it's a little complicated. I looked at my Top Card which has this switch mounted on the AS relay. There's a plastic cog that slides onto the nylon shaft. Anyone know where I can get one of these plastic gears?

Edit. Answered my own question.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C-8752

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

PBR has them too & Steve is the king of Gottleib. He will likely have whatever is needed

Yes. I've noticed. But sometimes he's so popular for Gottlieb parts, that he'll be sold out. Like he doesn't have the push button style power switches. Had to get one from Action Pinball. But, I agree, I always go to his site first.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

I am aware of at least 3 different forms of that black cam. One is the "every other" type to control an alternator relay. The second (apparently used on Surfers / Surf Champ) is an every 5 steps (two home positions). The third is the type with only one home position (1 out of 10).
The Schematic has a "zero position advance unit" (G relay) switch so you should need the 1 in 10 style. This brings the stepper back to the starting position after each ball.
On a King Kool Schematic, the Zero Position switch is shown with Mar/Wht and BL/Wht wires. Opens at zero position, and should be closed at the other 9 positions.

Is it this one? They're three listed and this one has the least amount of gears.

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C-8754

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from frb:

Are you sure that's the right stepper. part numbers do not match mine nor the one I found on net. It looks like someone grafted a match unit stepper in. there are two switches in the one you need. One to return to home and one to advance bonus.

The board number is different but has the same layout though so it may work. Can you take out your relay and post some pics of all the sides and inside of it showing me the switches and cams. Also, if there's two switches then I don't know where the other two wires are coming from as I only have two that aren't connected. Oh, and I have ordered a schematic too.

#44 5 years ago

Thanks guys. Yes, I've been through the head already and the match unit is there. I can't tell from the pic, which cam is on the right? Is it the one with two valleys. Just use the correct part number on the pic above. So, from what I see two of the wires that went to a switch were attached to a second board. Would this work? Is this gonna be one of those "see what it does when you start it" things?

#48 5 years ago

Thanks guys. Bangagong, your pics are excellent and I can see the color detail of the wires and where they go. I'm gonna order a right side two valley cam along with a pair of switch stacks from Steve Young. I have a left side two hill cam already.

Does this relay tie into the spinners and the advancement of the circle of lights in the center of the playfield? If so, that would explain why one of the spinners is gone. The hack that was done may work with one spinner but not two. Fortunately, Marco's had these spinners so I was able to order a pair of new ones.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

Marcos has the spinners?
Hmm, will have to check that out. Mine are wasted...

Yea. I was surprised. PBResource didn't have them listed. They're nice looking too. Well, as nice as a "10" and blue square can be but good quality nonetheless. NOS maybe?

#52 5 years ago

A little update. Spent a good part of the day testing everything minus the playfield. No surprise that players one and two needed adjustments while three and four worked fine out of the gate.

I received the cams and switches from Steve Young for the AS relay. Would you believe that I didn't have enough 5-40 x 1/2" screws to mount the stacks onto it? Lowes, of course didn't have any. I tried my local hardware store. Yea, a real old time style hardware store with nuts and bolts bins that go almost to the ceiling. What did the guy there tell me? "Don't have them. 5-40 is an unusual size." WTF? How many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of arcade games used that size for switch stacks? Unusual size, my ass. I ordered a pack of hundred for six bucks off ebay. Should be here in a day or two. The guy I got this game and Liberty Bell from gave me a box of used parts but I wasn't into hack sawing screws to make them shorter.

Replaced the coil stop on the reset bank mounted under the playfield. The old one had busted apart.

Now just waiting on some screws to finish the playfield and begin play testing.

After 220,000+ plays she ain't gonna be a beauty queen but she should be a good player. Also, see that Home Depot bucket to the left in the background. That's all from this game. Soooo dirty.

I'll have more pics when I'm done.

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#54 5 years ago

Actually the worst damage was around the bumpers where the factory put those stupid non-adhesive mylar pieces which I cut off because they look horrible.

#57 5 years ago

I do have some Testors but nothing that would match well enough. I have a bunch of cheap acrylic paints and tried some combinations out (before waxing) on the turquoise blue but I'm not good enough to get it to blend in to my liking. If it isn't going to look almost exact, I'm not going to do it. Nice thing about acrylic though is you can just wipe it off with a damp paper towel like nothing happened. Nonetheless, I did fix some of the pop bumper art that was gone. I've probably put about 50 hours in and that's enough. Once I get the screws I need to finish up the AS relay, I'll run it through a bunch of play tests and it will be for sale. I don't have a lot of room in the house for pins (basically two or three and Firepower is taking one of those spots) and I've got three others in the garage to repair. Honestly, I do enjoy repairing them the best. I don't have the income to afford the new stuff and haven't bought a truly "working" pin since my first one.

They're very few pins I've played that I never get tired of. Firepower is one of them, Centaur is another (gotta get one of them, dammit). I'm still looking for an EM that I can feel the same way about. Maybe that Top Card that's sitting in my garage is it. I don't know. Never played one. Yea, I bought it without ever playing one. Why? Well, the $350.00 price and the fact that I didn't have to drive more that an hour or so was a motivator. Also, I watched every video of this game that youtube had to offer. I've played enough to tell from a video if I'll fancy a particular pin.

I guess it's good that I want "dead" pins. When you can find them, they're significantly cheaper and I don't want to pay for somebody else's work. Hell, I didn't even want this game (the King Rock). I was happy with getting the Liberty Bell as payment for fixing this dude's Aztec. But the guy was really happy with the job I did and, along with a little work my dad did on his lawn mower, he wanted to give this one too. I still spent a ton of time because...who the f*ck else was going to do it around here? That thing was going to sit in his barn for another twenty years until he was dead...along with that Gottlieb Super Soccer that he's going to fix...someday.

I'm happy to bring something mechanical back from the dead. It's like a self congratulatory accomplishment. I get more satisfaction out of it than I do my job. Too bad I can't make the same money though. Although, if it was my job to fix pinball machines, would I take so much pleasure in it? I doubt it.

Anyway. What was this about again? Oh, yea. Touching up the pop bumper paint. Nah. I put a fair amount of Novus and wax around them to keep the area protected for a better artist to try their hand at in the future.

#59 5 years ago

Play testimg has been going ok with some minor issues like light sockets needing extra attention.

I'm having an issue with the game getting into "game over". After the last ball is drained and the outhole switch activates, bonus is accumilated as normal but the game will not end and the score motor keeps running. I found that the game over relay on the reset bank is not firing. Manually firing this gets the game to end.

Testing with my meter, I getting 3.7 or so ohms at the other coils in this bank but only 0.2 at the game over coil. I'm also getting a low reading at the 1st ball one as well. I'm assuming this is my issue as this coil is getting pulsed but not firing due to being dead. The coil doesn't look burnt but it's hard to tell in the assembly anyway. Why did Gottlieb use black coil wrappers?

These are A-1118 coils and are available at pbresource.

Just looking for a little confirmation as to if you guys think this is my issue as well. Thanks.

#61 5 years ago

One thing I noticed if any of the other plates are in then the first ball and game over coils will test fine. However, with all the switches in their reset position then these coils test as bad, 0.2 ohms. This is with the game off. I assume they're bridging and testing fine this way.

I'll have more time to look at this tomorrow.

#62 5 years ago

Looks like the issue was the reset bar on the reset bank. Needed to have a little more slack. Wasn't allowing the game over relay to make proper contact to drop the plate after the last ball drains. Strange how this bar was an issue with this game as well as my father's Four Seasons. But, for two different reasons. It's a bit of a little prick if you know what I mean. The adjustments and observations of switch movements in the "service" position may not be the same as in the "operation" position if that bar is not positioned correctly.

I want to put the game through some more play testing before selling she seems to be running well. One question though. Is it normal for the outhole kicker to fire twice during the startup sequence? Meaning, you press start, game begins reset sequence, during this sequence the outhole kicker fires the ball into the shooter lane and, upon completion of the sequence, it fires the outhole kicker once more. Doesn't affect anything. Just odd.

Nonetheless, I want to thank everyone for their help especially those who emailed me or posted photos of their under playfield AS relay. They were a great help for me to rebuild the unit I had. Donation made to Pinside in your honor.

#63 5 years ago

Pics or it didn't happen.

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#65 5 years ago
Quoted from DirtFlipper:

I don't believe so. Might check the outhole switch gap to make sure it's not too close and getting a phantom bounce.

The more I think about it, it may be from vibration when the reset bank coil fires at the completion of the sequence. I'll have to look tomorrow to see if I have that switch gapped too close. Anything on the reset bank that would fire the outhole kicker?

#67 5 years ago

After checking out the schematic and tracing some wires I've determined that this is normal operation for this game. When the ball trough rollover is closed it triggers the P relay which then triggers the O relay. Why is the O (outhole) being triggered at this point, you say? Because the KING relay bank which is mounted under the playfield must be reset and its reset switch is mounted on the O relay switch stack. In this process the outhole coil is fired a second time.

1 week later
#68 5 years ago

Well the game is sold and was picked up today. Went for $500.00 on ebay and the new owner drove from Michigan to PA to get it. He told me he played it in college and had a lot of fond memories of the game. He looked really happy when he saw it which made me happy that it was going to someone who had a lot of nostalgia for the pin.

Now onto something else. Started a little on the Liberty Bell but dad says I need to take home the Genco Hits and Runs. We'll see.

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