The playfield is laughably empty? Did the 4 pop targets not work on the game you played? How about the 11 independently controled drop targets? What about the player controlled kick back? What about Smaug and all of the new callouts he says in version 1.10? What about the mini LCD? The way your review is written it sounds like none of those features were working.

Sorry but you have missed and glanced over a ton of what The Hobbit offers.

All I know is this. The few people knocking The Hobbit for being "slow" or "empty" will eat their words when Keith is finished with the code that is taking advantage of all of the games features. Thats already started to happen with 1.10, I know as I'm one of those people that had to eat their words, haha. Today I just paid for an LE and can't wait to get it

The Hobbit is one of the most loaded pinballs to date. Theres a reason it weighs more then WOZ. A game with an empty playfield doesn't weight 350 pounds and has its IO board filled up more then WOZ, lol.

There are a handful of modes already that require shots to one or more of the beast pop up targets. With each code update the beast pop ups are being intergrated into the games rules in more and more unique ways.

The operator should call JJP tech support and if necessary get the beast mech with the issue replaced. On a few early games I thought I read there was an issue with the beast mechs.

There you go again with them negative waves. Always with the negative waves! lol.

Your opinion, plenty of people that think otherwise

"Anyone who thinks the layout is exciting to shoot is just wrong"

Wow, really dude? Sounds more like you think anyone who likes the layout is wrong. Lol.

lol. Yeah the price tag is hard to swallow for today's LE prices. For The Hobbit (or any NIB game people are interested in buying) you can get $500 knocked off your game if a distributor will let you put $4k on a new Chase Sapphire Visa card ($500 in cashback on $4k in purchases in first 3 months). Some distributors may charge a 1.5%-3% fee for using a CC but even if that's the case it will still knock $400-$450 off.

https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/sapphire/apply50?CELL=6H8X&AFFID=lw9MynSeamY-k1XSZRC5Jtks8KIN7we5rQ&pvid=bf2bc900216511e680dcd26586ab79380INT&jp_cmp=cc/388124/aff/3-10002570/na

Its void? I don't understand. The game does have 4 large troll pop up targets in the middle of the playfield that are essentially bash toys that also disappear / reappear, have their own lighting and have rear targets as well. That's a lot of things to hit in the center of the playfield alone. It's like having 4 Balrogs that do a lot more, lol.

I think one reason the playfield from pictures can seem so open is that the pop ups are not in the up position in them. One second the playfield can seem open and all of a sudden the next it isn't. The game really does have a lot going on it's just that until the last 2 code updates features such as the pops were not integrated well (behaved more randomly with early code) with the games rules. That is also starting to change as with 1.10 there are now modes such as Beast Frenzy that have some pretty slick rules in it for all 4 pop ups.

Other features such as the subway, the 2 orbit magnets and middle ramp divertor have not been used much (if at all) with the latest code. That will also change as Keith and Ted crank out updates.

hobbit-PF_(resized).jpg
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You can see from the underside pic above that the troll mechs are about 4x the size of the ones in MM. The troll mechs in TH are more interactive then those used in previous games such as MM.

IMG_5115_zps7c333078_(resized).jpg

Theres a lot more then that to TH Tiny LCD screen? That one is for the playfield and is intergrated very well with the game. Its a completely independent display with it's own art / visual assets then the games main 26" display. Very slick.

I love me some MM, its a great game. I just find that bsshing the castle more and more times for each castle level gets repetitive after a while. Same can be said for the awesome pirate ship in POTC. Mode variety and mode uniqueness across The Hobbits 31 modes, 3 mini wizard modes, 3 major wizard modes and its super wizard mode will be a big strength for the game.

I own a WOZ and thought the same way orginally about TH. Then I played it with version 1.10, realized it has just as much crap as WOZ in it and ordered one, lol.

The mini LCD display in TH does a heck of a lot more then the crystal ball toy in WOZ. The LCD book toy represents Bilbos "There and Back Again" book, plays clips from the movies, shows mode countdown time, informs the player what shots to hit and has some cool book page animations on it that give it a really neat effect.

Great points.

Amazing software support, unique + deep rules (over 30 modes) that offer variety, custom music (over 30 tracks) from a group that does music for big budget films, tech (main LCD, mini LCD, RGB lighting, uncompressed audio, etc) and an incredible amount of audio + FX work are reasons why I went with TH over other games. Then theres the fact that high quality powder coat armor is included as well as invisiglass , a shaker motor and a real backglass at the LE level.

All of those items justify the $8k price tag. I do not see other companies making the same level of commitment and offering as much value in their games as JJP does.

No. That's how you are counting the games shots. There are mutliple points in the game where you have to hit a cetain drop target or standup target. If you have to hit a specific target its a unique shot. You can't just hit any drop target in a bank to progress through certain modes.

If a player has to aim to hit a certain target that is on its own unique path then it is a shot. Aiming for the lower right drop target on the far right bank requires a different ball path then hitting the top target in the bank.

Yes you dislike The Hobbit, we know. Sorry but a lot of us want a game that offers more (far more) then progressing through 5 gears, that are not really modes, and one main multiball. Getaway is a fun game but its nice having epic quest based games as well that offer a ton of a different things to do.

There will likely be (or already is, don't have my game yet) one time shots from the player controlled kickback to the upper flipper that must then be used to hit a certain drop target.

You could hit the right ramp, ball gets diverted and stopped at kickback, player interacts with windlance power on LCD by pressing lockdown bar button at the correct time, upper flipper must then be used to hit a certain drop target to continue / beat mode.

All of that sounds like a slick use of the upper flipper and is very interactive when combined with the player controlled kickback and LCD.

"I think theres more to this upper flipper then meets the eye". Doesn't Gandalf say something like that in one of the films? lol

I never said it needed to be an Odyssey. Getaway is an awesome game, wish I never sold mine. I like that there are so many different types of games out there that play completely different. Thats one thing that makes pinball so much fun.

I think there was an older EM game that had the feature? Either way drop targets have never been programmed / intergrated so well on a pin before which is a welcomed change from them at times feeling like filler on other titles due to minimal code being written for them. Same goes for troll pop ups. Heck on XMEN LE I found them to be barely used which made the feature feel meaningless.

In a lot of newer games the majority of shots required to beat modes are your typical orbit and ramp shots. Its nice to see drop targets and pop up targets being used in so many unique ways. I think that is one reason why so many people gravitate toward TH.

Haven't heard that from operators, very much the opposite.

Really? I put 10 games in on a Hobbit last week without issue? Hmmm. You should stop generalizing so much when it comes to JJP related games.

Don't listen to SilverBallz, he loves to make snide comments when it comes to anything JJP, always has. The issue doesn't occur on all games (distributor I ordered my game from said 1/10 games). At a recent show a fix was already implemented. Apparently JJP added some small plastic guard piece inside the pop up mechs to prevent balls from becoming stuck.

No, your wording made it sound like all games have an issue with the balls getting stuck, that isn't true. I'm glad JJP has already addressed the issue.

Rule #1 for dealing with JJP trolls such as yourself. Don't feed the trolls I really need to remember that.

You wouldn't be able to fit everything on The Hobbit in a standard body, not even close. Would have to lose a few items and it could then still feel cluttered.

Some people say the Hobbits playfield looks sparse but in reality when all of the features are in use (drops, pop ups) it has more going on then any Stern and rivals WOZ (I say that as a WOZ owner) as well as an owner of Stern games.

There is a subway in the game It goes from each VUK to Smaug. Shots to the VUK holes can exit at the opposite VUK. Balls locked for Smaug MB go into the subway as well and exit at the left VUK. Left orbit shots can also be diverted by its magnet and dropped into the subway.

Maybe with Stern games that is a worry but not with JJP games. JJP released WOZ in May of 2013 and put out over a dozen updates for the game that year alone. Just this year there was yet another large update for WOZ.

JJP's code support is the best in pinball. I'm not worried at all about Hobbit code support. Since the games release Keith has already put out two code updates in the past two months. He's just getting started too, we haven't seen anything yet

Yes, must be multiple divertors. I don't think many modes or any have truly leveraged the subway / orbit magnet feature. The game is just going to keep getting better and better as all the features start coming to life with more code updates.

Yeah, I can see your point there as well as the other side with why lower point values are a good alternative. Its nice to see these large scores but they can also seem ridiculous and meaningless at some point. Why is a single shot worth 10 million points? Some 50 million +.

Having a 1 million point game on WOZ and TH is a great game. With these 500 million, 1 billion, 6 billion scores on some games it just seems kinda meaningless after a while as every shot is rewarding a million + points.

There should be a law passed that no orbit shot shall reward a player more then 50,000 points regardless of the game. Write your congressmen today, we need scoring standards in pinball now. lol

As long as a games code can make a standup shot feel meaningful, like Keith has done in WOZ and TH, stand ups targets can be satisfying shots. Unfortunately a lot of games just use standup targets as meaningless filler.

As long as the code is written well for a standup target and the shot is meaningful to the rules it can be a satisfying shot. Unfortunately in a majority of newer games stand-up targets often feel like filler and award little to the player.

It's cool to see JJP making shots to standup targets meaningful in unique ways. In the Hobbit there is a mode where you have to hit the standup target behind a moving drop target. Not only is that shot tough to make but when you finally do make it's a very satisfying shot.

The game already has more coded into it then other newer completed coded games yet there is still much more to be added. In the end Keith is putting a total of 31 main scene modes into the game plus 3 mini wizard modes, 3 major wizard modes and 1 super wizard mode. Keith and the guys also did the Pindemption system and additional code updates for WOZ over the past two years which I'm sure took a lot of time as well. Time could have also been devoted to Pat's game.

Keith is now cranking out the updates for TH with two large updates released in the past 2 months. I'm going to guess that another update will be out sometime in June, then July, August, etc.

Below is a map showing the 31 scene modes represented on the LCD. This doesn't include the wizard modes, Smaug MB, the 3 movie MB's, Beast Frenzy, the Super Spinner mode, and hurry ups. It's awesome to see just how much work is going into the games rules. The depth and details of TH's rules, audio and FX work are a big reason why I purchased the game over a couple others.

hobbit_modes_(resized).JPG

Wow. I honestly cannot believe how rude and disrespectful some of you anti JJP guys are. Its just one snide comment after another with some of you. I highly recommend the book "The Power of Positive Thinking" for you guys. Try being happy and smile

Exiting the thread.

Its not BS to many of us. STLE, TWDLE, Tron LE, etc they are all great and fun games but none of those deliver the same amount of value compared to WOZ and TH. Closest is STLE as at least it has some really cool LE features to help justify the price...sadly Stern stopped doing that.

I paid $8k for my Hobbit LE after deciding to pass on GB LE for the same price. There is no way I'm going to pay $8k for NIB pinball machine that still has a DMD, doesn't have a real backglass (translite), has the power button in the head of the game (what a dumb cost savings move by Stern), lacks a high quality powder coat, and only has 7 color changing inserts.

There is a new pattern with Stern LE's and it is sadly to offer less and less with each release.

JJP continues to offer the best value in pinball at the LE price point. Also, you need to factor in the time and money each company devotes to code development. JJP invests far more time and money into code development then Stern ever will.

Seriously though people should just buy whatever game is more fun to them. We are all going to have different opinions on these games. Like I've said before thankfully we have so many great games to argue about, haha.

Oops, exiting thread again, just wanted to help keep things balanced :p

Lol. I added some of the insulting anti JJP trolls to my ignore list for a more pleasant Pinside browsing experience. Now they can argue amongst themselves.

Just take WOZ's ruleset, audio work, FX animation work, etc and then toss in coding for a platform more advanced then Sterns (26" LCD display, 100% color changing inserts + GI, more features overall, etc) and top it all off with 3 years of regular code updates and its easy to tell that JJP invests more time and money into code development.

Also, I notice many of the rules / modes in JJP games to be more unique and offer more variety overall then those found in Stern games.

Same thing is occuring with TH.

After playing a bunch of games on both and now owning a Hobbit for a week I feel the same way. Don't get me wrong I like Ghostbusters pinball and think it's a fun game (will get at least a pro). However, it's linear ruleset and the way it's designed is not nearly as engaging as the rules on The Hobbit in my opinion. I also feel like The Hobbit is the far better value compared to GB premium / LE due to the quality of materials used, tech, extra features, and far more work going into it's rules and audio. Add a Color DMD, invisiglass and powder coated armor to any new Stern premium and it cost about the same as a Hobbit LE. I have a hard time stomaching spending nearly $7k on a Stern premium that lacks 100% color changing inserts, doesn't have powder coated armor, and continues to have a regular DMD.

I find The Hobbit to just be on a different level, like WOZ, compare to other pins I own and have owned in the past. What a great game. I've been very surprised by not only the number of modes already in the game but by how much variety each one offers. I read a couple people knocking the pop ups for randomly going up and down, well that hasn't been the case since 1.01 and especially 1.10. Beast Frenzy is a pretty slick multiball mode that takes advantage of the pops ups very well. I played another mode last night that had the lower right and upper right pop ups in the up position and then the left orbit + left ramp had shots had to be made to remove them. That's just one example of unique rules Keith is putting into this game... and the man is just getting started

In terms of speed I think the game is pretty darn quick considering it's a widebody. I also own a Metallica Pro, considered a very fast game, and not once while playing The Hobbit have I thought "this is slow".

Good point. If people are playing The Hobbit expecting it to play like say ACDC or MET with "hit this bash toy 10x to start multiball", "hit the ramps 10x to start this multiball" and /or "hit the orbits 10x to start multiball" type modes then they will not like it. TH is a very strategic mode based game that is designed to make the player feel like they are on a quest. Personally I think rulesets such as the one being designed for The Hobbit are the most addicting and long lasting rulesets in pinball.

After 2 weeks of owning the game my positive opinion of it has only grown. The Hobbit is a blast to play, is fast (never thought it was slow), and will become a masterpiece by the time Keith is done with the rules.

Great points about the game but don't even bother with him. He's overly negative about the game and doesn't like it. Thats fine, not everyone will like it just like any other game. However, a majority of time when something positive about the game is said he has to jump down the posters throat to tell them why they are wrong and often in a rude / condescending way (if he's the user I'm thinking of). Thankfully Pinside has an ignore feature, haha

Honestly, people who favor super fast flowly games that focus on scoring opportunities (MET, ACDC, Iron Man, etc) rather then modes that are designed to make the player feel like they are on a quest (TH, LOTR, WOZ) while working the entire playfield won't like The Hobbit. I like playing both types of rulesets but in a home environment I prefer rulesets found on The Hobbit as I find them more engaging and longer lasting.

Sounds like he wants or expects the game to play like MET or ACDC, just bash things and hit the same shots over and over for big points / start multiball ...TH is not that type of game.

TH is a game where you progress through the themes story through its 31 main modes, attempt to reach its multiple wizard modes, collect items along the way and do all of that in unique and interesting ways by working the entire playfield.

If a player likes pins that makes them feel like they are on a quest with multiple story based objectives then they will love The Hobbit. If a player prefers games that are super fast and centered around scoring points versus progressing through modes then they will not be a fan of The Hobbit.

What we've seen so far with the games ruleset is just a fraction of the entire picture as there is still much more to come with future code updates.