Couldn't agree more.

When I went to play TH at an open house event, I had pretty low expectations for various reasons, mostly because of the negative reviews. I was there with Eskaybee, who also had pretty low expectations. It didn't take very long for both of us to be very impressed. My very first reaction after playing a couple of balls was "man, this really feels different" mostly because of the large, open playfield, with many shots being further from the flippers than I am used to on my Stern pins. At first I wasn't sure that I liked that feeling. But it didn't take long to realize how good those long shots felt. Very smooth and satisfying.

Combine that with all the other cool stuff (I love the bookend and how it tells you what to do), the excellent HD video clips, fantastic music, sound effects (Thanks Mr. Thiel!) and sound quality, not to mention the overall appearance of the pin and the artwork, I was on board and placed my order.

The more I play TH and learn just what in the hell I am doing, the more I am impressed with Keith's coding abilities.

The game is super deep already- I love the fact you must hit the Elf, Dwarf, or Man drop targets to qualify those 3 separate categories of modes.

You can then hit the left ramp/book shot which turns the pages to a different chapter/mode to pick which one you would like to start.

You can either then start the mode with right ramp/mode shot, then immediately look to to the large or small LCD to determine what to do. These LCD screens give you information needed for these modes that a Stern DMD cannot simply do. The screen display tech on this machine is a huge benefit to the player in this regard.

You can either decide to use the right ramp to lock the ball towards Smaug MB, or use the Ring button to change the right ramp to a Mode start. I've found if I have two Smaug MB locks, and also a Mode start ready- I'll use the ring button to change to Mode and start a Mode, then immediately hit the right ramp/lock to start Smaug MB. During Smaug you can start modes one after another, and you stack things on top of each and get an awesome frantic multiball that gets the adrenaline pumping with so many shots it's awesome.

With this type of gameplay, you really do feel immersed in this quest of turning pages of the book/modes and accomplishing various unique objectives in those modes, and progressing through this book/story and battling the modes.

All the while the beasts pop up and attempt to thwart your progression by blocking your shots and trying to stop you from accomplishing those goals.

You truly feel like you are battling through the game, and it's probably one of the most immersive pinball machines I've ever played when you really put in a lot of games. The sounds, visuals, gameplay, etc is just amazing and it will only get better over time, unlike 90's games that are done and that's all you get. The money spent on this game promises an improvement in code and gameplay over the next couple of years, and even if they didn't improve it from where it is now- I'd be fine.

Im going to have to say though.. The game did not need the 3rd flipper, as it just doesn't add much to the game. But in all fairness, it doesn't detract from anything or bother me at all. But I just wish there would have been a satisfying shot to hit from it like ST LE's warp ramp which adds so much to that game, and feels so great when hitting it.

I've tried this but it always seems to go to the outlane... guess it's time to try it again with a slightly different technique.

The game already has more coded into it then other newer completed coded games yet there is still much more to be added. In the end Keith is putting a total of 31 main scene modes into the game plus 3 mini wizard modes, 3 major wizard modes and 1 super wizard mode. Keith and the guys also did the Pindemption system and additional code updates for WOZ over the past two years which I'm sure took a lot of time as well. Time could have also been devoted to Pat's game.

Keith is now cranking out the updates for TH with two large updates released in the past 2 months. I'm going to guess that another update will be out sometime in June, then July, August, etc.

Below is a map showing the 31 scene modes represented on the LCD. This doesn't include the wizard modes, Smaug MB, the 3 movie MB's, Beast Frenzy, the Super Spinner mode, and hurry ups. It's awesome to see just how much work is going into the games rules. The depth and details of TH's rules, audio and FX work are a big reason why I purchased the game over a couple others.

hobbit_modes_(resized).JPG

At this point, it's fun exploring and learning the modes. Watching the LCD while others play to see the video clips as they progress through the game is great.

I'm looking forward to the added strategy when the mode completion awards and arkenstone multiballs get added.

A drop catch is different than letting the ball bounce off the flipper or trying to trap the ball. You start with the flipper up and as the ball is about to hit it, you release the flipper. Ideally, the ball should stop dead on the flipper then begin to slowly roll down it, allowing you to make a nice controlled shot back up the ramp. I'm sure there are youtube videos to show you what it looks like.

The feed from the upper right flipper (held up when the ball drops from the Munchkin playfield) is perfect to practice this technique.

I have to say, you do carry the torch Panzer. Good for you. A bit repetitious but you do get the info on the game out there.
Ps..same to kpg....keep it up.

I couldn't agree more.....great info and feeback!

I found my low expectations of Hobbit were met I got to play it at Allentown. Just not the style of gameplay I enjoy. But so what? You like it, then go buy it or play it.

I have said this before and exactly Allentown, Joe does not have the game setup correctly at all. But if you don't like it, you don't. That's cool. I didn't care for GB to much either. Maybe when I play it at my friends house this weekend it will be different. Try the hobbit at a person's house where u know the rules and the setup is right and you can hear the sound.

I can't wait to do just that; I'm waiting for my friend to get his. But I played the game in 6 different locations and it was always "set up incorrectly." So it was in no way Joe's fault. (And when Jack is there, don't you think he knows how to set up his own game?)

I wish I could, people got sick of waiting an cancelled.

Well everyone on Pinside figured out Trudeau set up his GB wrong during the LE podcast so maybe

I'm just saying, if I were selling 9k games, they would be set up perfectly.

That's interesting... Sure doesn't come across in the game play... Largely because it's a fan layout with the shots all shoved super high. Frankly, they could put 60 modes into the game and it won't change the fact that the playfield isn't that interesting... (To me).

Hey man, that's just my opinion... If you're getting your rocks off on it, that's all that matters. Hopefully they'll code more life into the game and hobbit owners will all be happy.

I'm already happy and the codes are not even close to being done.

I took a video playing my new Hobbit LE, set up the right way - better then the one I played on location. Waxed playfield, pitch at 7*, post installed at left ramp so balls don't get stuck, and flipper strength cranked up to 27 on the left flipper 28 on the right flipper.

Recorded the first game I played since I didn't want to record forever and 'hand pick' some random game I played, which was a crappy game and pretty quick. You will see my Ball 1 went well, and the multiball was frantic as hell.. didn't even complete or start many modes. Then balls 2 & 3 drained quickly, as the game can be brutal at times with this pitch which I prefer. My high score to date is 590,000 or so.

You can see how quick the gameplay can become, and just how crowded the playfield can get, and how quick the ball can come back to your flippers and set up another quick shot after that. Like TWD, the way this machine plays is all about how its dialed in to your preferences, in my opinion.

kpg - good write ups and reviews! Very interesting insight on the modes, ramps, and such. Keep that stuff coming ... somewhere here on Pinside. Keith is great or maybe even the best, but Jack is quick to point out these days that Keith has 3 (relatively new to JJP) code helpers. Keith himself pointed out that the WOZ 6.06 update was the initial training (initiation) for those 3 at JJP - likely with Keith's close supervision. I don't know their background, but they are pumping out the code with Keith. Imagine if Keith can pass down his knowledge and technics to these 3. What a team that could be! So, I guess currently it is more "team Keith" working on the code for the games, likely with Keith's lead. Still ... really, really good stuff coming from "team Keith".

Lookin' good! I love the fact that you have your Hobbit set up next to your TWD....just like I will.

The Keifers

The game looks even nicer in the dark and all lit up. But with all due respect, your definition of "quick" and mine are clearly two different things.

Yeah that's slow as shit.

Well, you do know all wide bodies will always play slower then a standard body, right? Of course it's no MET or TWD, that's just physics of course- but for a widebody with a huge playfield, I'm speaking in relative terms, and it's quick for a widebody.. and yes, this game can be fast as hell at times, and a bit more relaxed/slower as you are trying to start things. If you notice the multiball, when it's in action and the beast popups are active, the game can be extremely fast and frantic.

It's only when the game in single ball/lance armstrong mode before getting things started it is slower then normal. But playing it vs watching it are two different things, as when it gets going it kicks ass ! As code progresses, players get better and learn everything, the game will be even better. Considering my favorite pin is TWD due to its fast and brutal speed, if this pin was "slow" I'd be playing TWD instead. It hasn't been turned on once since TH arrived.

I do, and my IJ and WOZ are two of my favorite machines. Both are quite a bit faster than TH, which is still a beautiful machine, and I look forward to playing one in a home setting. I just think people who own one and are trying to say they're fast are viewing it through $8000-dollar rose-colored glasses.

Our definitions are definitely different. I owned a WOZ, and sold it. It's most definitely slower and less entertaining then TH by far. But see, our definitions are definitely different - because the gameplay (not even talking speed here) of WOZ bored me, and TH is so much more fun to me and everyone else who has played it.

No rose colored glasses here. I'd be selling it right now if I didn't like it. Which is exactly what I did with WOZ, and voiced my opinions about it from day 1.

I'm just glad JJP has two pins and it seems they cater to two different types of people- that's a win for them, and that's great.

You had it set up wrong.

Wow. I honestly cannot believe how rude and disrespectful some of you anti JJP guys are. Its just one snide comment after another with some of you. I highly recommend the book "The Power of Positive Thinking" for you guys. Try being happy and smile

Exiting the thread.

I don't know dude, I can't stand those mini playfields and the witch cackling, and the sound of somewhere over the rainbow, or sparkly red slipper flippers.. It just didn't do it for me. I always felt I should be wearing a purse while playing the game haha.. Kidding... It was a fine game, but dude, 8/10 people would take TH instead in my opinion. It's a scientific opinion based on facts I just made up right now

Boob likes WOZ better than hobbit, that's cool. WOZ is good, TH is good. I am a bit surprised that Boob is so hard on the hobbit. I would think if you like WOZ you would at least like the hobbit.

Stop it dude...don't be "that guy." It's not as fast as games these days, it's slow, that's what people are saying. KPG isn't crying on some harmless shit we give each other...don't you start.

That's garbage. It gets repeated again and again, but it's crap.

Why should a machine play slower because it is a few inches wider? It makes no sense.

The Playfield is still on the same angle.

Angle of Playfield influences ball speed. Not how wide it is.

My STTNG is one of the fastest machines I own. It's a drain monster.

I think some people confuse a games design (like Indiana Jones for example, it's a wide body stop start game with a lot of stuff on the Playfield) with speed of a game, and make a generalisation.

Full Throttle is another wide body that is fast as hell.

So let's put that myth to rest, once and for all.

rd

Do you have contact with JJP ?

Because if not, I find that shot map you posted a little disconcerting.

Honestly I don't even mind if people call it slow, seriously. To me I don't care what speed it plays at to some people, my wife and I just got done playing some of the most fun pinball we've played in a long time.. And about to play more. It has the one more game feel that I rarely get with other machines.. Finally beat the default 600K GC score... F**k definitions of speed, this game kicks ass and is so fun. That's the point of pinball anyway. Fast, slow, whatever.. It's a great machine. I just want the wizard modes programmed in and clear directions on how to start them at this point, which I know is coming...

STTNG does play fast, but compared to MET, TWD, ACDC, and other modern Stern's... It's slow to me. It's faster then TH, but that doesn't matter... Because I like TH more and it's a better game.. To me.

Honestly who cares what I think. I'm not JJP and I'm not making a dollar trying to sell anyone on it. If u don't like it don't buy it or play it, all good!

Some of my favorite games are slow EMs. Fast, slow, whatever. Many people don't have the patience for it, however.

Correct. Wouldn't it be pants if all the machines were the same ? Variety is the spice of life.

I'd love to play both TH and a WOZ but they are very scarce here in the UK.

Wide bodies are slower East to west. That's a fact. North to south it's the same. Anyone who doesn't understand that (or says they don't) I don't get. That being said, my hobbit is MUCH faster than my woz. Both set up on the same angle.

To some people it feels slower, and this is because of the fact that a ball traveling at the same speed that has a longer distance to cover will take more time to cover that longer distance. So it is all a matter of perception and how you measure the ball getting to its next destination. Makes perfect sense.

That being said, my Demolition Man is one of my fastest games, because I made it that way. Speed doesn't fit every game though, and (on topic) I think Hobbit plays well when setup well.

I think it's often the case you can go the opposite of show plays to judge the likely commercial success of a pinball machine. Firstly most of the people at shows are not going to buy a machine. They are on freeplay so fast ball / many drains is for many a positive. Yes people are on freeplay at home but the increasing operator market for games must now be a big consideration regarding gameplay.

11 hours ago you said you were exiting the thread, but an hour after, TheLaw posted and you give it a thumbs down.
You can't keep away.

Pot. Kettle. Black. You have a hard on for all things JJP. Get a life man. Panzer loves his games and you love to step on his joy. How you haven't gotten a subforum eject yet is beyond comprehension.

Dude, relax.
Whar did I say that would get me ejected?

Ha, panzer even thumbs downed me, well after he said thread exit. What does thead exit mean?
Are you panzers other user name?

I don't mean to sound like I'm so hard on TH. Keep in mind I had it on order twice and I'm a huge JJP fan. I think it's the most beautiful game ever made. The gameplay just puts me to sleep. I like to watch the screen and light show when others play, though.

And some of you really need to get a sense of humor. Even KPG was able to laugh although we disagree.

I do have a sense for humor. I think everything that SilverBallz says is "bat shit crazy" funny.

But there is a lot more that influences ball speed on a pin than *just* the angle (incline) of the PF. Flipper strength, slingshot strength, the kind of rubber used, a waxed vs unwaxed pf, the distance between slingshots, pop bumpers, etc.

As someone else said, the distance between some of those things on widebody pins tend to be further apart from each other, and the ball return takes a longer path on ramps to get back to the flipper, which can lead to the perception of slower ball speeds.

I've owned several widebody pins. Not one of them played as fast as the newer Stern pins. Coincidence?

Personally I have zero problem with widebody pins playing a tad bit slower. I like the variety that they provide, even if my overall personal preference is for faster "in your face" type gameplay, I don't want every pin I own to play that way.

Also, if only angle of playfield influenced ball speed, why is it that Full Throttle plays faster than pretty much any other widebody pin made? Do they have all their pins set at 9 degrees?

I wouldn't say it did. My Dredd, Demo Man and STTNG would play as fast as the Full Throttles I have played.

There's a reason Demo Man is in most of the A Bracket pinball comps ... And it ain't because it's slow and floaty.

rd

Point being that there's more to speed, or lack thereof, than just the pitch of the PF.

And my DM, which I loved, didn't play nearly as fast as the vast majority of the modern Sterns. Of course that doesn't mean it was slow and floaty either.

I agree with a few points:

1) Hobbit is pretty. Now that the lighting effects are improved, it looks even better
2) The playfield is sorta empty. But there's still a lot of action up there. It's like Fish Tales has been crammed into the top 1/3 of the playfield.

And here's where I diverge:

Having received one of the early Hobbits, I've played every iteration of the code. When it arrived, it was unfinished, with many modes barely existent. But the code advanced, and fast. The new code is awesome. Great callouts, more clarity of purpose. Keith is a great programmer. A Lyman-level programmer. And he has given Hobbit a lot of variety and strategy. It's not AC/DC, but do you want every game to be that obtuse and steep?