You wouldn't be able to fit everything on The Hobbit in a standard body, not even close. Would have to lose a few items and it could then still feel cluttered.

Some people say the Hobbits playfield looks sparse but in reality when all of the features are in use (drops, pop ups) it has more going on then any Stern and rivals WOZ (I say that as a WOZ owner) as well as an owner of Stern games.

You have to stop saying this. It's not true. You can say that it feels like it's busy or that it feels like it's got a lot going on, but it's definitely more thinly populated than several Sterns and definitely more thinly than WoZ.

I count lanes,ramps,captive ball most games 7/9 main shots not counting upper playfields

How can you not count a target that registers points or triggers a follow up (such as a mode start or extra ball)? Examples: Palantir in LOTR, Wicked Witch & Glinda targets in WOZ, etc.

Shots and targets. It's dumb, but that's always been the official unofficial distinction. The Hobbit has lots of targets, for sure.

That's cray cray.

I count a bank like green goblin as a shot not five as I count in the zone as one mode and not every hurry up as a mode

All I know is after getting my Hobbit last night, I am blown away by how great it is.

Waxed the playfield, set pitch to 7*, and wow. It's plenty fast, enough to get some crazy airballs and lose track of the ball quicker then some of my Stern's. Sure around the sling area the ball can get a bit slow/floaty - but then BOOM its all of a sudden crazy and frantic.. that change of pace keeps you on your feet and needing to react. I love it.

The playfield is one of the most dynamic play fields you can experience. The constant beasts popping up add to a very sporadic playing experience and I absolutely love it as a great alternative and variety to static playfields like every other machine out there. Example, when a ball is about to come back to the flippers in the inlane- I am already thinking of my next shot.. maybe its a ramp for a lock, to start a mode, or hit a drop target or orbit- then the balls rolls onto a lit inland shot and boom- a beast pops up and music changes and now I must quickly react and hit that new target that randomly appeared and is flashing away. I absolutely love that type of spontaneous gameplay. Sparse playfield? Maybe to someone walking up to the machine and not playing it - but when the game is going those popups feel great to hit and really change everything up at any given time.

I played it initially with the 1.01 code then updated to 1.10. Wow- what a difference! You must play the game with this new code. Theres so much to learn and do - from qualifying the modes, to the actual objectives you must achieve once that mode is started- this game will take months to master- then another code update will make for new things to learn. From the random/roaming drop target popup in a certain mode (which I timed perfectly to hit with a left orbit shot to the upper-right flipper to hit it, mind you.. 3rd flipper complain is overblown) to when the Spider pops up and you must bash it in 30 seconds then hit other objectives after for more points.. to modes where you must build things up by hitting the poppers... super spinners... etc - its mind blowing. This game is a massive winner for JJP. SOOO much better then my previous WOZ its not even funny.

The complainers and critics here are basing off their opinions from games that weren't likely set up correctly, have no idea what to do during the modes or how to qualify to start them, and was using old code. This machine is legit and really feels like leaps and bounds over my existing Sterns. I'm now worried about my GB LE thats coming in and if i'll even be interested in spending time on it after having this bad boy now. It makes my MET Prem, TWD Prem, and ST LE that I just sold look like Pro models instead of premium machines.

The Hobbit is outstanding, period.

I'm glad you're happy, kpg. Sounds like you're really digging into it and liking what you find. It'll be interesting to see how it continues to evolve.

I played a few hours on the latest code, however. That's what I've based all my opinion on. It even had the plastic inserts in place to keep the balls from getting stuck in the pop ups.

There are a lot of targets to shoot at but very few if any of the shots feel satisfying to hit and parts of the layout feel incomplete. -The entire upper right section of the playfield (bag-end) and the exposed VUK just seem like an after-thought. it just feels odd to shoot a vuk without anything blocking it or a lane in front of it. Wasn't there originally supposed to be a subway involved in that area?

I love the artwork on this game and played it a few times last year at Allentown. I would get one but Jack lost me at the price point. It's unfortunate but I can only spend what I have.

This gets to the heart of why I do not buy NIB games. Why there are so many people willing to pay nearly 10K for games that are not complete is beyond me. There is very little incentive for manufacturers to completely code games when they sell so easily incomplete. Once you own the game, there is also much less pressure on manufacturers to update codes. There are threads littering this forum about coding problems or update requests. The only people to blame are the posters for buying an unfinished product. Getting off soapbox.....

There is a subway in the game It goes from each VUK to Smaug. Shots to the VUK holes can exit at the opposite VUK. Balls locked for Smaug MB go into the subway as well and exit at the left VUK. Left orbit shots can also be diverted by its magnet and dropped into the subway.

Interesting - the balls have still yet to get stuck in the trolls. Even the one I played in San Francisco, about 25 games or so, didn't have that issue. I'll ask JJP for the plastic pieces that fix the issue if it becomes a problem.

Honestly, the experience is so much different in my own home, set up to my liking vs when I played it on location. The more I learn about it, and what to do in the modes, the better this thing is. I think it will just take more time of being out there and people getting a chance to spend enough time with it to appreciate everything going on in it- the code will absolutely enhance the value and gameplay of this machine.. because the difference from 1.01 to 1.10 was noticeably better right off the bat.

I don't think it's a constant issue, like maybe a 1% of the time deal, but JJP feels that's a big enough problem to offer a fix for. Good on them.

Maybe with Stern games that is a worry but not with JJP games. JJP released WOZ in May of 2013 and put out over a dozen updates for the game that year alone. Just this year there was yet another large update for WOZ.

JJP's code support is the best in pinball. I'm not worried at all about Hobbit code support. Since the games release Keith has already put out two code updates in the past two months. He's just getting started too, we haven't seen anything yet

That's cool! i guess i need to start paying better attention. I've only noticed it kicking it up to the left VUK from Smaug.-I take it there must be a diverter under the playfield?

I think TH is more fun than WOZ - but totally cool if others feel WOZ is better.

To another point about playing it first. Before I got to play TH I was concerned I would not like it, and had all but canceled my order. But when I finally got to play it I was very glad I kept it, but also confused why it was getting all the hate. If you are considering getting it, play it first - don't just rely on reviews. It is all over the place in reviews, like WOZ was/is.

I budgeted 10K for the pin I wanted to own the most. For me it was between: TRON LE, WOZ, TH, Iron Man VE, and Star Trek Premium, or Monster Bash (the one I liked the most when I was a younger man). The pin that I wanted to most is TH - TRON LE is a close second but above my 10K budget.

Another thing about the fast or slow argument about the hobbit - for me personally I don't want it any faster. Plays plenty fast enough for me, especially with all those modes and popups.

I see. I can get behind this distinction as a way to subdivide the total shots on a playfield between orbits/ramps and targets.

What gets a little lost with this distinction is that when people only count up the ramps and orbits it implies they are the only things worth hitting in a game.

I find it useful when comparing games to tally up all the shots available to each flipper. I will separate these shots into orbits/ramps and targets in the future to be more consistent with the "official unofficial" distinction.

I guess a target bank does not count as a shot, nor does a captive ball. Instead, they would be tallied as 5 targets for the Goblin bank and one target for the captive ball.

Yes, must be multiple divertors. I don't think many modes or any have truly leveraged the subway / orbit magnet feature. The game is just going to keep getting better and better as all the features start coming to life with more code updates.

I just wish I could find one to play in Southern California. Ghostbusters are popping up everywhere, but no Hobbits.

Consider a long weekend road trip to get to one - or find a local pinsider that has one. A HUO setup will be ideal anyway. All I can say is after I played it I have to resist emailing Jen everyday for a status update.

Dunno about that.

Looking at photos under the playfield- it doesnt look like there's much real-estate to be able to squeeze that body smaller (and maintain all the goodies).

Each week I get more and more plays in on TH, and I'm starting to think more judicious use of the trolls will resolve the wide-open feel of the PF. Now, it still seems chaotic (on the code revision Ive played), but I'm starting to see the way forward to them changing the complexion of the game better.

I think the best code change that Keith can make right now for TH, is get rid of the low scoring stuff. There's nothing exciting about hitting a 1,000 point shot. Everything else is great. Seriously though, just a scoring change in that regard would do wonders. There's so much excitement with hitting a 35,000,000 point shot in TWD, just because it's worth that many points. The scoring system in WOZ and especially TH really numbs the importance and excitement of an otherwise great set of shots and objectives in the current ruleset.

This is a huge issue with Hobbit software. Everything scores the same. There's no progression, and no excitement. Maybe that's been addressed in the code update.

Yeah, I can see your point there as well as the other side with why lower point values are a good alternative. Its nice to see these large scores but they can also seem ridiculous and meaningless at some point. Why is a single shot worth 10 million points? Some 50 million +.

Having a 1 million point game on WOZ and TH is a great game. With these 500 million, 1 billion, 6 billion scores on some games it just seems kinda meaningless after a while as every shot is rewarding a million + points.

There should be a law passed that no orbit shot shall reward a player more then 50,000 points regardless of the game. Write your congressmen today, we need scoring standards in pinball now. lol

I just wanna find somewhere to play this beast. Where in central NJ can I find one to play?

Honestly I agree with your posts about TH a lot, and its a great game. I'm telling you though, if Keith changed up the scoring system completely it would just make it all that much better. I mean I get 257 point bonuses sometimes

Change it up to scoring like a modern Stern pin and I think there will be more excitement in some of those shots. Imagine 5M points for nailing the roaming drop target, or 7.5M for perfectly timing that bow & arrow/windlance shot off the upper flipper to a drop target or beast popup? That would be more exciting if those types of difficult to time and hit shots resulted in a big payout. Right now it kind of feels like hitting a jackpot on a slot machine while it makes a bunch of flashing lights, sounds, etc and a couple fuckin nickels pop out. Same feeling.. like.. uh

That's great & I am happy for the owners and operators...and keep in mind I own a WOZ, have no skin in the TH, & REALLY want JJP to survive and thrive, BUT why the HELL did it ship like that???? It was obvious in 1 BALL. It had to have been a ball ache in test...WHY???

Not sure why, but they have a good fix for it - and we aren't that far along in production anyway. All good man, relax.

Funny, it makes little difference to me. As long as the point values, sound and display effects are in proportion to the difficulty in hitting the shot, completing the mode, collecting the jackpot, etc...I'm happy.

It's not too difficult to get calibrated to the scoring on a game. Ie, a good game is 500k, 5mil, 50mil or 500mil.

Again, no skin in the TH so I am very relaxed. Just cant wrap my head around the mindset of letting this ship like that. I spent $1.25 a game and played quite a few to give it a chance. I will walk by it from now on, all relaxed

Agree with this, but I figure that current scoring is a place holder or it will become insignificant from a strategic view of playing the game. You are really trying to start your three main modes while earning supers and some form of multiball in each, plus a final wizard battle. H3LL Yeah! While you are persuing any of those, I think you will be scoring some big points and valuable multipliers (new rumor). So, right now without main modes included, you are playing for peanut scores.

( ^^^^^ management is not responsible for anything stated above this line ^^^^ )

It's not going to change. Keith has commented on it quite a bit in the past. Its all relative, and its all in the players head.
I mean each stern game has a 0 on the end of the score. So Ghostbusters default Super jackpot starts at 100,000 if you take away the last 0's.

I had the same feeling when I got my WoZ, have a great game and still feels like it's insignificant.You get used to it pretty quickly. The more JJP machines are out there the less it will seem strange.

Very very well said. People that play in the wild don't get to play and hear it like we do. They just don't get it.

Actually, I like the low scoring, but variety would be nice in any game. I'm just not a fan of the billions type scores. I guess to each his own.

I did get to play TH in the wild last night beercade, got in at least a dozen games, no one around, nice wheat beer on tap made the best of the situation, great time.

When I first got WOZ it took one game to realize the upper right flipper was terribly placed. You can't see the ball coming to time your shot. Not to mention there is not a single satisfying shot to shoot at, but that is another problem. Then I noticed the magnet above the flipper like on a number of Steve Ritchie games. I thought "if I was the programmer, I'd make up for this terrible design by making that magnet catch the ball A LOT." After playing about 40 games between my friends and I, none of us had seen that magnet hold the ball even once. I actually pulled the glass to test the magnet and verify that it works. Turns out you have to do all kinds of crap to get that magnet to activate in the game. I figured later software would maybe change that, but here we are two years later and that flipper is still tits on a bull and a perfectly good magnet sits almost unused. WOZ has great rules and is deep as hell. Personally I would have sacrificed some of that and made sure that magnet activates at least 50% of the time the ball passes by. First step in making up for a below average playfield is admitting that you have a below average playfield and be willing to give up a little to make the game a lot more fun to the average player not looking to play hour long games.

That flipper hits the haunted forest, crystal ball, and witch skill shots and melts the witch. I actually think it's brilliantly placed because you can't see the ball coming, so your reflexes have to be FAST to hit the shot you want.

As to the magnet, I think less is better. It's used to hold the ball after initiating a munchkin mode, and it's used to cue up the ball when you melt the witch.

It's all awesome IMO, but the upper flipper on TH? That one's a little unnecessary, although I'm guessing it's used to kill Smaug.

I will just agree to disagree here. I hate it and I have never heard anything but bitching from people while playing the game. Most people go a few games without noticing the flipper and I have to show it to them. I also have to point out the witch, since she is completely hidden by the reflections on the sneeze guard over top of her. Yes, there are shots there, but a stand-up target does not count as a satisfying shot.

Yes, even more of a tits on a bull situation.

As long as a games code can make a standup shot feel meaningful, like Keith has done in WOZ and TH, stand ups targets can be satisfying shots. Unfortunately a lot of games just use standup targets as meaningless filler.

I completely disagree with the flipper placement comment. The two main shots are the forest and the witch. I do these at least a dozen times throughout a game. The forest shot is probably the most difficult shot out there.

I do agree with the magnet there. It is rarely used. To me that is more opportunity for code updates. I still think WoZ is the best overall pinball machine ever produced. I am afraid there may never be another like it. Especially with new leadership at JJP. I hope I am wrong though.

I found the shot to melt the witch to be one of the most satisfying shots in pinball. It is difficult to get to, it can only be made from that flipper, and if you miss you have to requalify the shot again while keeping both balls in play.

So you're right, we can also agree to disagree. I like games with multiple layers of complexity that use features of the game in distinctive ways.

And Boob forgot to list collecting Horses is under that flipper. A "side game" in WOZ that can completely mess you up as you try to build up multipliers to combine with the munchkin modes. Something nobody does on location, but at home things like that can waste entire nights as you try to combine munchkins and horses into big bonus scores. Good stuff.

As long as the code is written well for a standup target and the shot is meaningful to the rules it can be a satisfying shot. Unfortunately in a majority of newer games stand-up targets often feel like filler and award little to the player.

It's cool to see JJP making shots to standup targets meaningful in unique ways. In the Hobbit there is a mode where you have to hit the standup target behind a moving drop target. Not only is that shot tough to make but when you finally do make it's a very satisfying shot.

beek_(resized).jpg

Hitting the haunted forest skill shot isn't satisfying? Nailing the witch off the orbit isn't satisfy? Huh?

That flipper, once you learn how to control/use it, is a key to the game.

Here in lies one of the bigger mysteries for me. How in the world could you have a game 3 years + in development..and the long awaited release has barebones code (or, at least uninspiring code). I don't get it.

I don't think its a mystery.

Keith is one of the very best pinball programmers, period. There's no way what we saw at launch was the result of 2 or 3yrs of his continuous work.... there's just no way.

I can only ASSume he was pulled off TH for long stretches as they either ran out of money or decided to hit the pause button due to the redesign. Now, if he was working on JJP #3 in the meantime, that could spell a faster ramp-up for #3, who knows.

This "theory" is only further supported by the fact that it appears he's already on a frenetic pace to improve the code multiple times in the short period TH has been shipping. He's got some serious fanboys here- but frankly- he's deserved them. I'm actually starting to believe he can code the shit out of those trolls and make this PF "feel fuller."

My fans here will chalk this up to more JJP trolling, but the reality is, Im starting to warm up to the GAME (which is always seperate from my feelings toward the mgmt ).

Silverball Museum in Asbury Park.

One of my favorite uses for the flipper is to divert the ball to the lower left flipper when it drains from the Munchkin playfield. Drop catch on the lower left then shoot it back up the ramp to continue trying to complete Munchkin. Oh so satisfying.

With all the negative things John_I has to say about JJP and WOZ. I'm surprised he doesn't just sell the machine as much as he dislikes it. I'm also surprised he hasn't discovered the uses mentioned for that flipper since he owns the game and all.