Doesn't need a ton of shit to do; it's a fast 10 min game, not an odyssey. I'd hate to see you play an EM.

I never said it needed to be an Odyssey. Getaway is an awesome game, wish I never sold mine. I like that there are so many different types of games out there that play completely different. Thats one thing that makes pinball so much fun.

Eventually we will have cat pictures, and sorry bud, you are going to miss it.

The wrecking ball in junkyard is like 472 shots. Best toy ever!

The wrecking ball is wild!

Yes, it's a heavy beast, but unlike traditional pins you can take it apart a little easier.
I'm taking the head off to get downstairs (looks like i only have to disconnect about 4 cables). That should shave a few pounds off...

I think there was an older EM game that had the feature? Either way drop targets have never been programmed / intergrated so well on a pin before which is a welcomed change from them at times feeling like filler on other titles due to minimal code being written for them. Same goes for troll pop ups. Heck on XMEN LE I found them to be barely used which made the feature feel meaningless.

In a lot of newer games the majority of shots required to beat modes are your typical orbit and ramp shots. Its nice to see drop targets and pop up targets being used in so many unique ways. I think that is one reason why so many people gravitate toward TH.

Plenty of games. I was just playing Quick Draw which has it.

Ok ok you have a love letter for JJP I get it, and that's cool. I'm just here to make sure people are giving credit to the wrong people. I do the same thing when people mention Stern's slot reels bumpers etc

Certainly new for today's pins. Have no idea if individually controlled and coded drop target banks have been used before... Nor do I honestly care if they have or haven't been used before. And not sure where I said JJP invented them but ok if you say I did. How does any of that pertain to shots available in a pin?

Bottom line is the argument over shot counts is not really an argument. To say a bank of three targets (each individual target with a unique, fixed trajectory and most likely different point values per target) is one shot defies the laws of common sense.

That would be like saying a single, moving target with a single point total is a bunch of shots. But I digress...

The best analogy to point out the folly would be going to a target range and saying a row of plinking targets is one shot and a clay pigeon is multiple shots.

I agree...I used to take a stand one way but it's as pointless as cats v dogs or regular v synthetic oil. Just make sure you're counting alley passes as shots on your shot list.

Geez I wish I was this guy! 17grand and 2 pinball machines later. Shazaam do I need to sell a left nut or something!lol
Congrats, hats of to you!

lol - well I did just sell my ST LE to get TH.

I'm just curious of all the following games, met, GB, Twd, and TH, which of these stands out as different? Which one doesn't have the typical bash toy up the middle, a couple ramps, and orbits? My point is that th is a welcomed change. GB, met, im, twd, and on and on are all so similar. yeah, different themes, sounds, rules, but essentially very similar. if you take away sparky for example, you're left with 2 ramps, 2 orbits, a couple scoop holes, drop targets inline, and a Newton ball. The music pumps you up, but seriously it's pretty basic. Now do the same with the other mentioned sterns. Sorry, but variety is the spice of life. I love sterns, so I'm not bashing at all. Just bringing all the games into perspective. Aside from themes, music, and different plastics, most sterns are similar. Jjp has changed layouts so much, it's nice to have different shots.

Now you've gone and done it - cats v dogs, reg v synth? You're insane!

I know...that;s actually showing my age more than anything as cats clearly "won" the internet & the dealership puts synthetic in my car without asking

I would not waste you time and energy anymore with these guys. You love the game and so do I. We understand the rules, have it set up correctly at home (not a bar), and 1.10 code just makes it better. Like I said before, playing it on location or at a pinball show does not do this game justice.

Is there even a "Pinball and dogs" thread here? And if so, when's the last time someone posted to it???!!!

Sorry for the derail...

For me this was the major thing when I first saw it. It seems like you need a good amount of time on it in a home environment to get everything out of it. Would be awesome to roll that thing in my house for a weekend

How is maintenance on WOZ difficult? Helped my neighbor do a bunch of stuff on his WOZRR from mods to board swaps. No more difficult than doing stuff on my LOTR. I'd honestly argue that working on WOZ is easier than working on LOTR... Now when I look at the underside of TH, I must admit I'm a bit nervous! Looks somewhat like 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag!

Understood. My neighbor's WOZRR is a 2015 build. Had a couple of light board issues, and some cable issues, but it's been pretty stable otherwise. Comparable to his STLE.

Swapping out light boards is easy except for dealing with some of the connectors. I'm not a big fan of the cables JJP made for all the daisy chains. I'm cautiously optimistic JJP used a different cable design for TH...

You really do need time on it. Those who have played it at a bar or show even 30 times is not enough. It's all about the setup and understanding what you are doing. Once this is done, look out, it's fantastic.

Haven't heard that from operators, very much the opposite.

I finally got a newer pin, ST prem. And my Space Station will never leave. So I need to get this F-14 rehabbed and up on the market. Then maybe a WOZ or GB. But that's a couple years into the future.

What? Come one, dude. I love WoZ. I think it's a fantastic game, but it's hardly a secret that it's a maintenance nightmare. It breaks all the dang time, especially the light boards.

I had one of the worst light board problems. Now that I've replaced all the boards, that thing is a tank. No issues since.

TH does have a bash toy in the dead center of the game, the newton ball is literally straight up the center. Other then that I agree with your post. Different is a good thing.

When talking about pinball you are 100% correct.....or art....etc.....

What grinds my ass is everyone who thinks they are allowed a valid opinion even when it counters the known facts. People don't get to have "opinions" on everything.....at least not valid ones. You are free to voice your opinion that we never landed on the moon or that the earth is literally 6000 years old.....but that opinion is wrong and it/you will be treated accordingly. End rant, back to pinball

This is exactly why I am pumped for TH to arrive. It will fit in nicely and add variety to my TWD Prem, MET Prem, and GB LE.

Exactly!

That's not were the pinballs go ! Your doing it wrong! Just my opinion!

Agree, but perhaps this is the right approach when explaining TH to others that don't like it.
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or just don't explain it 1000 times. who cares. this thread has gone insane.

Apparently around here the only kinds of pins that gets rave reviews have bash toys in the middle, a couple ramps on the left & right of the machine, coding by Dwight or Lyman, and maybe some ridiculous outlanes or flippers gapped a mile apart. I guess its a formula that works, and I don't mind it either- but instead of the same beer with a different name and label on the bottle, i'd like to add a bottle of whiskey to my collection which is why TH will fit in nicely w/ my Sterns

Well at least you are not a stern basher or jjp basher or spooky pinball. I think they are all doing well and glad to see more people coming to the hobby. Although I would like to play me some more Big Labowski! Love that rug!

More companies that can come out with quality games the better! I love Stern & JJP. You have to admit, how awesome is it that a company like JJP can come in and crank out two games that are built as solid as they are, w/ 27" HD screens with a custom OS and graphics/animation interface, and have machines that have the look and feel of something that is leaps and bounds above what Stern is doing - which Stern has been in business for 30 years!

Major props to JJP. I think they are the reason Stern is moving to an LCD finally. Competition is good, just like Tesla is forcing automakers to make changes in the way they design and even sell cars.

Why bash WOZ or even TH when both of those games are beneficial to the hobby? Sometimes I feel its not about game vs game, but Stern vs JJP around here- like iPhone vs Android or Ford vs Chevy. It's not about that. It's about supporting an entrepreneur like Jack, stepping into a very difficult business, and putting out machines like WOZ and TH that directly compete with Stern. There's nothing wrong with that, and his games aren't clones or rip offs of Stern's machines, but literally great alternatives and new flavors in this hobby. If JJP put out the same old stuff as Stern people would complain it wasn't different enough.. cant win with most people here I guess.

Rob T is back! He slowly put his toe back in the water ... It got a little wet ... the familiar feeling slowly washed over him ... Then the whole foot went in ... Hmmm that feels good! ... Now he's dived in with all his clothes on!!

rd

I don't think there's any identifiable common thread between highly rated games on Pinside. Coding by Lyman is in just over half, but there's still variety in that aspect.

1. Medieval Madness
2. Twilight Zone
3. Monster Bash
4. Attack From Mars
5. Lord of the Rings
6. The Addams Family
7. Metallica
8. Indiana Jones
9. AC/DC
10. Tales of the Arabian Nights

3 have motorized stand up targets, 6 are fan layouts, 4 are non-fan, 6 are Lyman's games, none have wide flipper gaps, 3 bash toys, 4 mini playfields, 3 Stern, 7 B/W, 2 widebody games, 2 crappy art...

I think that it comes down to just games that are fun to play. I'm still surprised that TOTAN hangs on to such a high ranking. It's not a bad game, but it's very easy. It's by far the least challenging of the highly rated games.

And you know what? I have valid complaints about all 10 of those games, and I have great things to say about all 10. I don't think that me, or anybody else, expressing those opinions should make you feel threatened in any way. Twilight Zone is my all-time favorite game, but there are lots of people who hate on it for perfectly valid reasons according to their taste in pinball. They're not wrong. It's only problematic if they're going to blindly hate on a game they have no experience with. I would like to think that most people here aren't doing that with The Hobbit, Ghostbusters, or anything else.

I tried to program my goats. But I tell you what, they are the most ornery animals. They'll eat all your crops and not feel an ounce of remorse. Then drop a pile of raisins on your foot and laugh at you.

rd

i'm not really a fan of the ratings system here on Pinside. I think lots of ratings are skewed on what people grew up with and wont ever let that go. Just like someone from the 60's still will call the Beetles the greatest band and music ever, and someone from the 80's will say Madonna or Michael Jackson is their favorite musician of all time.

We are in a different generation now, and honestly, if you were to take 250 people, ages 18-25 and have them play the top 100 games and get their feedback- the ratings would be completely different then they would be if you took 250 people ages 35-45 or 50-60 years old. It is just different now.

My Dad thinks Dallas, Honeymooners, and the Andy Griffith show were the greatest shows that ever lived.. I think it's Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, and The Walking Dead. He wouldn't make it past an episode of either of those shows. Many people would here would agree with my Dad and disagree with me, and vice versa. Different times, different generations. Same formula applies to those older games I played as a kid compared to the new things that are coming out now. My kids would much rather play a MET, GB, or TH then TZ, MM, or AFM. Different ratings for different generations, that's whats wrong with the Pinside ratings (and the fact many people are biased when rating for their own personal collection to help values stay high, but that's another story.)

I'm curious to see how the game plays with full code, but I can also see why people are disappointed and even turned off by what's been delivered. The lack of interactivity with Smaug is definitely a bummer, that third flipper is a big question mark, etc. It'd be interesting to compare complaints against TH vs those for WOZ.

Well they're pretty similar on the upper flipper

Sorry,

I'm not worried at all. My biggest concern is the weight 350 lbs. if I buy it and want to sell how do I get it up the stairs.

It definitely goes both ways, though .. Someone can just post their honest opinion of a game and say they really don't care for it and they think the playfield is too sparse, which should be perfectly fine to say (that's not bashing!), and then people will flood in saying how can they possibly think the playfield is sparse and list everything trying to change their mind. We have to be respectful of everyone's opinions, and it seems a lot of people don't grasp the concept that not everyone thinks exactly the same.

Agreed. So glad I gave TH a chance. So many negative posts here it made me think it was a piece of crap, and I almost didn't even play it- simply because of the opinions here. I put it aside, played it, formed my *own* opinion, and now it will be here Friday so I can enjoy it and I don't give a f**k about ratings, negative posts here, sparse this, slow that, don't care because *I* think the machine is awesome

Wow...Congrats for not giving in to peer pressure; truly an accomplishment for an adult.

You are like a lost puppy; following me around on each thread and have to yelp at me for a reaction each time.. you happy? I'll be waiting for another witty attempt at humor for this comment as well.

You are not special; If anyone else made that dumb post I would have said the same thing.

It really tied the room together - did it not!?