(Topic ID: 160553)

My Review: The Hobbit is the ultimate test for KEF


By Russell

3 years ago



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  • 105 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Goronic
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There are 522 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 11.
#1 3 years ago

For perspective, I owned, loved and regret ever selling WOZ. I was in on The Hobbit, but got out because of the Elaut scandal and rumors about financial troubles at JJP. I count myself as a JJP fan, and I am a huge fan of Keith Johnson's coding. I'm really glad that JJP appears to have stabilized and is now shipping The Hobbit.

I have played The Hobbit 3 times now. Once, early in the code at Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown '15, once recently at the 2Up, and today at Arcade Amusements in Manitou Springs, CO.

It is a beautiful game. It is just gorgeous, perhaps the best looking game since WOZ. Definitely among the top 10 prettiest games of all time. If they had done direct printing cabinets like early WOZs, it might take the #1 spot on looks alone.

However...the playfield is laughably empty. The ball floats around the playfield like I'm playing an 80s Bally or something. I wonder if they did this intentionally as a response to the difficult maintenance of WOZ. If the ball is really slow and there's nothing to hit, nothing can break, right?

Can this shell of a game be salvaged by Keith Johnson? If so, this will (further) solidify his reputation as the GOAT programmer.

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#2 3 years ago

The only thing I agree with you on is that it looks amazing.

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

However...the playfield is laughably empty. The ball floats around the playfield like I'm playing an 80s Bally or something. I wonder if they did this intentionally as a response to the difficult maintenance of WOZ. If the ball is really slow and there's nothing to hit, nothing can break, right?

The Hobbit on route near me has had more problems thanks to those pop-up targets than my WOZ on route has ever had.

#4 3 years ago

The one at the 2Up was having some problems with the Trolls also. Is this a software or hardware problem? I haven't been following the million-post Hobbit thread...zzzzzz....

#5 3 years ago

Slow play ... with 31 modes that most have multi-ball? Does anyone really know how many of Keith's 31 modes are in fact multi-ball? If you are not in a mode, then during that "slow play" you should be looking for what mode you can get to next. That's where all the big points are anyway. The modes that Keith has and will write are the point of the game. If you are not in a mode, you are missing the point(s).

Just my opinion ...

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

Is this a software or hardware problem?

This has been fixed or improved with the new code. Make sure you play one with the latest code updates. JJP has fixed a lot of the complaints.

36
#7 3 years ago

Sorry you lost me at I played the game 3 times......

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Flato:

Sorry you lost me at I played the game 3 times......

I played once at the RMPS. I played a bunch of times at the 2up. Maybe 10? I played once in Manitou. The second game today, I got a ball stuck and the manager didn't have the keys. Put the game out of order. So, I guess 12 games total. Not near enough, but certainly enough to express my initial impressions.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

I played once at the RMPS. I played a bunch of times at the 2up. Maybe 10? I played once in Manitou. The second game today, I got a ball stuck and the manager didn't have the keys. Put the game out of order. So, I guess 12 games total. Not near enough, but certainly enough to express my initial impressions.

I recommend that you not buy the hobbit. But I am

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from KingBW:

This has been fixed or improved with the new code. Make sure you play one with the latest code updates. JJP has fixed a lot of the complaints.

Unfortunately, though Arcade Amusements (Manitou Penny Arcade) has been great about getting the newest games lately, they're terrible at updating the code. I may be playing with rudimentary early code. Oh well, I can always count on the 2up having the latest code. Will try to get up to Denver again soon.

#11 3 years ago

I'm not sure I counted correctly, but I came up with 35ish distinct shots (2 ramps, 2 loops, 11 drops, 11 targets, one captive ball, 4 bash heads, 4 rollovers). That's more than any Stern that I can think of. 31 modes is more than any other game...ever.

Maybe you should play more games?

16
#12 3 years ago

The playfield is laughably empty? Did the 4 pop targets not work on the game you played? How about the 11 independently controled drop targets? What about the player controlled kick back? What about Smaug and all of the new callouts he says in version 1.10? What about the mini LCD? The way your review is written it sounds like none of those features were working.

Sorry but you have missed and glanced over a ton of what The Hobbit offers.

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

the playfield is laughably empty. The ball floats around the playfield like I'm playing an 80s Bally or something

Yet you continue to want to play it?

Quoted from Russell:

I have played The Hobbit 3 times now.

And again, you continue to want to play it?

Quoted from Russell:

I played a bunch of times at the 2up. Maybe 10? I played once in Manitou. The second game today, I got a ball stuck and the manager didn't have the keys. Put the game out of order.

And.... again, you wanted to play it more? Seems like such a "laughably empty playfield" wouldn't make you want to keep playing it.

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The playfield is laughably empty? Did the 4 pop targets not work on the game you played? How about the 11 independently controled drop targets? What about the player controlled kick back? What about Smaug and all of the new callouts he says in version 1.10? What about the mini LCD?
Sorry but you have missed and glanced over a ton of what The Hobbit offers.

What do the beasts even do at this point besides the hurry-ups and getting the multiball with all 4? The one I play on route always has one of the beasts not functioning (and the operator there works very hard to keep his games in shape), and without all 4 functioning it's impossible to get the multiball, so hitting them just feels useless.

#15 3 years ago

All I know is this. The few people knocking The Hobbit for being "slow" or "empty" will eat their words when Keith is finished with the code that is taking advantage of all of the games features. Thats already started to happen with 1.10, I know as I'm one of those people that had to eat their words, haha. Today I just paid for an LE and can't wait to get it

The Hobbit is one of the most loaded pinballs to date. Theres a reason it weighs more then WOZ. A game with an empty playfield doesn't weight 350 pounds and has its IO board filled up more then WOZ, lol.

#16 3 years ago

I agree that the playfield is beautiful, but feels sparse. It's not an exciting layout, and games are a slow grind with current code.

Keith Johnson is the best programmer for the job, but he doesn't have nearly as much to work with as he did with WoZ. The layout is very basic and the upper flipper is a waste. Throwing a bunch of multiball modes in there just makes for a very long ball time with a very samey feeling game to game. I hope that's not the focus on this game moving forward.

I think it's an ok game that can be elevated with great code, but it's always going to be held back by the pedestrian shot chart.

The pop up targets lose novelty quickly and just become annoying as they're currently coded. I'm sure more can be done with how they work and what they ultimately lead to.

#17 3 years ago

I don't doubt what it will be after Keefer's done with it, I've never been disappointed by his work. In my head I'm having a hard time picturing it being that good, but I know he'll find a way to get it there.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

What do the beasts even do at this point besides the hurry-ups and getting the multiball with all 4? The one I play on route always has one of the beasts not functioning (and the operator there works very hard to keep his games in shape), and without all 4 functioning it's impossible to get the multiball, so hitting them just feels useless.

There are a handful of modes already that require shots to one or more of the beast pop up targets. With each code update the beast pop ups are being intergrated into the games rules in more and more unique ways.

The operator should call JJP tech support and if necessary get the beast mech with the issue replaced. On a few early games I thought I read there was an issue with the beast mechs.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I agree that the playfield is beautiful, but feels sparse. It's not an exciting layout, and games are a slow grind with current code.
Keith Johnson is the best programmer for the job, but he doesn't have nearly as much to work with as he did with WoZ. The layout is very basic and the upper flipper is a waste. Throwing a bunch of multiball modes in there just makes for a very long ball time with a very samey feeling game to game. I hope that's not the focus on this game moving forward.
I think it's an ok game that can be elevated with great code, but it's always going to be held back by the pedestrian shot chart.
The pop up targets lose novelty quickly and just become annoying ad they're currently coded. I'm sure more can be done with how they work and what they ultimately lead to.

There you go again with them negative waves. Always with the negative waves! lol.

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#20 3 years ago

My review of your "review": After 12 words I found Russell's review to be laughably empty and devoid of anything that justified a new thread on Pinside. After that The review just floated and moved slow, and I don't think even the great Keefer could save this review. DaveH gives this review a Pinside rating of 2.3 (I wanted to give it a 1, but that rating would be ignored by the system).

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from konghusker:

Yet you continue to want to play it?

And again, you continue to want to play it?

And.... again, you wanted to play it more? Seems like such a "laughably empty playfield" wouldn't make you want to keep playing it.

I'm definitely still interested in seeing how the code develops. (As you might have surmised from my initial post.)

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

All I know is this. The few people knocking The Hobbit for being "slow" or "empty" will eat their words when Keith is finished with the code that is taking advantage of all of the games features. Thats already started to happen with 1.10, I know as I'm one of those people that had to eat their words, haha. Today I just paid for an LE and can't wait to get it
The Hobbit is one of the most loaded pinballs to date. Theres a reason it weighs more then WOZ. A game with an empty playfield doesn't weight 350 pounds and has its IO board filled up more then WOZ, lol.

All I know is this. A 350 lb. game is overkill and says 0 about game play or feature set.

TH has 0 "feel good" shots. Right upper flipper is a waste. Ramps are pushed back too far and the ball flops back half the time.

I'm sure the rules will eventually rock, but they can't compensate for a fundamentally BORING PF layout.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

The one I play on route always has one of the beasts not functioning (and the operator there works very hard to keep his games in shape ...

The Hobbit on route near me has had similar issues with the pop-up beasts as well. None were working for the longest time and only 3 out of 4 as of last week. Maintenance on all 16 games at this establishment is very good too.

Gameplay has been so-so, but a strikingly beautiful game nonetheless!

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

All I know is this. A 350 lb. game is overkill and says 0 about game play or feature set.
TH has 0 "feel good" shots. Right upper flipper is a waste. Ramps are pushed back too far and the ball flops back half the time.
I'm sure the rules will eventually rock, but they can't compensate for a fundamentally BORING PF layout.

Your opinion, plenty of people that think otherwise

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Your opinion, plenty of people that think otherwise

Maybe, but I don't know many players that like the game. Almost all of the folks who like it gravitate toward games based on license and looks. From that perspective, I see the attraction...it's a very beautiful game. Anyone who thinks the layout is exciting to shoot is just wrong. Hey, I wish I felt differently...would love to purchase my first JJP pin. For now, I'll hope that Lawlor nails the next JJP offering.

#26 3 years ago

I'm surprised that my comments were controversial. It seems that the fan-boys and the haters are both out in force.

I'm in neither camp. At the moment, it's not that great. I hope it turns out to be a good game, and I think Keith gives it a chance to be something special.

-1
#27 3 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Maybe, but I don't know many players that like the game. Almost all of the folks who like it gravitate toward games based on license and looks. From that perspective, I see the attraction...it's a very beautiful game. Anyone who thinks the layout is exciting to shoot is just wrong. Hey, I wish I felt differently...would love to purchase my first JJP pin. For now, I'll hope that Lawlor nails the next JJP offering.

"Anyone who thinks the layout is exciting to shoot is just wrong"

Wow, really dude? Sounds more like you think anyone who likes the layout is wrong. Lol.

#28 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

"Anyone who thinks the layout is exciting to shoot is just wrong"
Wow, really dude? Sounds more like you think anyone who likes the layout is wrong. Lol.

Yeah, dude...no taste. Sorry!...my opinion.

28
#29 3 years ago

Is there anything more annoying than these "I paid for this game so I'm going to police every slight criticism" fanboys? Seriously.

It's getting to where you can't give an honest opinion of a game without some zealot jumping all over your dick and stalking you from thread to thread. The insecurity of some people around here is shocking.

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Is there anything more annoying than these "I paid for this game so I'm going to police every slight criticism" fanboys? Seriously.
It's getting to where you can't give an honest opinion of a game without some zealot jumping all over your dick and stalking you from thread to thread. The insecurity of some people around here is shocking.

The irony of your post. Do you see it?

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

The irony of your post. Do you see it?

Have I been out of line with anything I've said about the game? I don't love it, but I have given actual reasons for it. In certainly not chasing people down to tell them how wrong they are while waving my opinion flag in their face.

I don't understand the implications you're making with that post.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

Unfortunately, though Arcade Amusements (Manitou Penny Arcade) has been great about getting the newest games lately, they're terrible at updating the code. I may be playing with rudimentary early code. Oh well, I can always count on the 2up having the latest code. Will try to get up to Denver again soon.

I played TH in Manitou on Friday and it had an older code on it. I have put in a request that they update the code and if they do will be interested to see that. Even with the old code I do enjoy playing it but am still on the fence of whether I will buy one or not. I need to play more games and on one with codes updated as they come out.

Wish they'd get a GB and GOT in Manitou as well. Would much prefer those over Kiss and Whoa Nellie they have there.

#34 3 years ago

The newer code is noticeably better. I saw it last weekend.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Is there anything more annoying than these "I paid for this game so I'm going to police every slight criticism" fanboys? Seriously.
It's getting to where you can't give an honest opinion of a game without some zealot jumping all over your dick and stalking you from thread to thread. The insecurity of some people around here is shocking.

Im not in on hobbit and I think it's fan-tas-tic-o! Beautiful game, amazing integration, lots of flipper action, and fun shots. Not as fast as a stern, but they all can't be 5 second ball time games. Only thing holding me back is that darned price tag. Maybe I should join the haters club and help drive the price to the ground

#36 3 years ago

lol. Yeah the price tag is hard to swallow for today's LE prices. For The Hobbit (or any NIB game people are interested in buying) you can get $500 knocked off your game if a distributor will let you put $4k on a new Chase Sapphire Visa card ($500 in cashback on $4k in purchases in first 3 months). Some distributors may charge a 1.5%-3% fee for using a CC but even if that's the case it will still knock $400-$450 off.

https://creditcards.chase.com/a1/sapphire/apply50?CELL=6H8X&AFFID=lw9MynSeamY-k1XSZRC5Jtks8KIN7we5rQ&pvid=bf2bc900216511e680dcd26586ab79380INT&jp_cmp=cc/388124/aff/3-10002570/na

#37 3 years ago

On a 8k pin you would get 540 off assuming 1 percent after 4k but would pay 3 percent on 8k so 240 equals 300 off LE 8k at 3 percent charge which seems the general rate.

40
#38 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

It's getting to where you can't give an honest opinion of a game without some zealot jumping all over your dick and stalking you from thread to thread. The insecurity of some people around here is shocking.

This post is spot on. Some people with money on a game turn into one eyed pit bulls.

Doesn't matter if it's Ghostbusters (Capt Kirk etc) or Hobbit (some other dudes), if you say you don't like it, they'll jump down your throat.

I said I didn't like Ghostbusters gameplay, and the GB fanboys didn't like it, despite most of them never having played the game.

It's the whole "your with us or against us" attitude. No middle ground. In my perfect world everyone can have an opinion. If you like WOZ, good on ya! I don't like it. But you can like it all you want, no skin off my nose. If you think GB is the best thing since sliced toast, knock yourself out! But don't bite my head off when I say it's not my cup of tea ... One mans opinion is just as valid as yours is.

rd

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

This post is spot on. Some people with money on a game turn into one eyed pit bulls.
Doesn't matter if it's Ghostbusters (Capt Kirk etc) or Hobbit (some other dudes), if you say you don't like it, they'll jump down your throat.
I said I didn't like Ghostbusters gameplay, and the GB fanboys didn't like it, despite most of them never having played the game.
It's the whole "your with us or against us" attitude. No middle ground. In my perfect world everyone can have an opinion. If you like WOZ, good on ya! I don't like it. But you can like it all you want, no skin off my nose. If you think GB is the best thing since sliced toast, knock yourself out! But don't bite my head off when I say it's not my cup of tea ... One mans opinion is just as valid as yours is.
rd

How dare you talk logically. I am deeply offended by your post. Let me start drafting out my 3 page response to why you are wrong....

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

I don't doubt what it will be after Keefer's done with it, I've never been disappointed by his work. In my head I'm having a hard time picturing it being that good, but I know he'll find a way to get it there.

Code can only go so far. Deep code didn't save wpt in my opinion and the fact that it languishes at the low end of late model stern value bears out that this is the general opinion on it.

The hobbit layout just isn't very inspiring. I haven't played the latest code, I would like to get some games on it. I put probably 50 on it already in league play and also just to see how it is. I'm not too impressed so far.

"So not impressed you played it 50 times?!"

Come on, you gotta do better than that as an argument. You WANT to give every game a chance to win you over and you don't do that with 5 games.

Not everybody is gonna like every game, even one you paid $8000 clams for. That's life. It's not like people are putting stickers of Calvin pissing on a JJP logo on the back window of their F-150.

Don't take it so personally. If you are happy with it that's the important thing.

#41 3 years ago

besides mmr whens the last time a new games actually been released with completed code? until they do every new game is fkn shyte.scratched record yes but when ya pay full money for 1/2 a game its crap

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Code can only go so far. Deep code didn't save wpt in my opinion and the fact that it languishes at the low end of late model stern value bears out that this is the general opinion on it.

You're using a machine as a target that isn't devalued by its play. Sorry, Charlie...the play on WPT is fantastic, and it's been established as so by people who *actively thought that the game was crap*, and came around to love the thing. The play is *very* well-regarded.

Where WPT loses its value (and you're right, it does...) is in its aesthetics, which indeed are absolute *crap*. There's no amount of help you could provide to that artwork package that will diminish its awfulness. It will forever be associated with why Brian Rood no longer works in pinball at any level. Unforgivably wretched, retch-inducing, and terrible. I honestly think that there are people who have been completely blind since birth that are deeply offended by that machine's look. You can complain about the music, too, I suppose, but that's a lot more subjective, I think. Where WPT loses its value is in its appearance, not its gameplay.

The code on WPT is great, and the playfield is lots of Steve Ritchie fun. Put those two things together and you've got yourself one fantastic package for great pinball play...in a wrapper that looks like God was pissed off at pinball one day, and decided to make it look as hideous as possible.

Your logic, on the whole, doesn't add up, I'm afraid.

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from boagman:

You're using a machine as a target that isn't devalued by its play. Sorry, Charlie...the play on WPT is fantastic, and it's been established as so by people who *actively thought that the game was crap*, and came around to love the thing. The play is *very* well-regarded.
Where WPT loses its value (and you're right, it does...) is in its aesthetics, which indeed are absolute *crap*. There's no amount of help you could provide to that artwork package that will diminish its awfulness. It will forever be associated with why Brian Rood no longer works in pinball at any level. Unforgivably wretched, retch-inducing, and terrible. I honestly think that there are people who have been completely blind since birth that are deeply offended by that machine's look. You can complain about the music, too, I suppose, but that's a lot more subjective, I think. Where WPT loses its value is in its appearance, not its gameplay.
The code on WPT is great, and the playfield is lots of Steve Ritchie fun. Put those two things together and you've got yourself one fantastic package for great pinball play...in a wrapper that looks like God was pissed off at pinball one day, and decided to make it look as hideous as possible.
Your logic, on the whole, doesn't add up, I'm afraid.

I agree. I bought a WPT as my first Stern just to have a looksee and absolutely love it. Great fun building up the pot of a good hand then trying to cash it in with a 3X shot.
If anything lets it down (other than the art) it is that all those lovely drop down targets should have been implemented a bit better IMO. Hitting specific cards in multiball to increase jackpot values, playing a hi or low game etc.
@Keefer, how about a WPT code update ?

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from peaceboy666:

besides mmr whens the last time a new games actually been released with completed code? until they do every new game is fkn shyte.scratched record yes but when ya pay full money for 1/2 a game its crap

GOT. The shipped code was pretty much complete. There have been big fixes, but for the most part the code was done.

#45 3 years ago

Its like Star Trek with no Vengence, Getaway with no turbo, woz with no witch or spinney house thingy, lotr with no balrog bash! Its void! I agree code may deepen the game but it still lacks in my opinion. I would buy a woz before a hobbit. If my woman would allow me to spend that much for a pinball machine!

#46 3 years ago
Quoted from heni1977:

Its like Star Trek with no Vengence, Getaway with no turbo, woz with no witch or spinney house thingy, lotr with no balrog bash! Its void! I agree code may deepen the game but it still lacks in my opinion. I would buy a woz before a hobbit. If my woman would allow me to spend that much for a pinball machine!

Its void? I don't understand. The game does have 4 large troll pop up targets in the middle of the playfield that are essentially bash toys that also disappear / reappear, have their own lighting and have rear targets as well. That's a lot of things to hit in the center of the playfield alone. It's like having 4 Balrogs that do a lot more, lol.

I think one reason the playfield from pictures can seem so open is that the pop ups are not in the up position in them. One second the playfield can seem open and all of a sudden the next it isn't. The game really does have a lot going on it's just that until the last 2 code updates features such as the pops were not integrated well (behaved more randomly with early code) with the games rules. That is also starting to change as with 1.10 there are now modes such as Beast Frenzy that have some pretty slick rules in it for all 4 pop ups.

Other features such as the subway, the 2 orbit magnets and middle ramp divertor have not been used much (if at all) with the latest code. That will also change as Keith and Ted crank out updates.

hobbit-PF_(resized).jpg
12729326_1128138983871363_2590656031592511560_n_(resized).jpg

You can see from the underside pic above that the troll mechs are about 4x the size of the ones in MM. The troll mechs in TH are more interactive then those used in previous games such as MM.

IMG_5115_zps7c333078_(resized).jpg

#47 3 years ago

Your pics make me want it even less!!! So what it has 4 trolls pop up! MM has two and at least I can destroy the castle which is awesome! A golden dragons head and a tiny led screen and two ramp is not all that amazing! Now you got me wanting to buy a Medievil Madness!
Not hating on JJP, the woz is a great game!

#48 3 years ago
Quoted from heni1977:

Your pics make me want it even less!!! So what it has 4 trolls pop up! MM has two and at least I can destroy the castle which is awesome! A golden dragons head and a tiny led screen and two ramp is not all that amazing! Now you got me wanting to buy a Medievil Madness!
Not hating on JJP, the woz is a great game!

Theres a lot more then that to TH Tiny LCD screen? That one is for the playfield and is intergrated very well with the game. Its a completely independent display with it's own art / visual assets then the games main 26" display. Very slick.

I love me some MM, its a great game. I just find that bsshing the castle more and more times for each castle level gets repetitive after a while. Same can be said for the awesome pirate ship in POTC. Mode variety and mode uniqueness across The Hobbits 31 modes, 3 mini wizard modes, 3 major wizard modes and its super wizard mode will be a big strength for the game.

#49 3 years ago

I agree that the main display is cool and a great way for others to enjoy while watching a person play. But I feel they could have done more! In comparison with woz the PF is boring! Heck woz has a crystal ball with video, that blew my mind!

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from heni1977:

I agree that the main display is cool and a great way for others to enjoy while watching a person play. But I feel they could have done more! In comparison with woz the PF is boring! Heck woz has a crystal ball with video, that blew my mind!

I own a WOZ and thought the same way orginally about TH. Then I played it with version 1.10, realized it has just as much crap as WOZ in it and ordered one, lol.

The mini LCD display in TH does a heck of a lot more then the crystal ball toy in WOZ. The LCD book toy represents Bilbos "There and Back Again" book, plays clips from the movies, shows mode countdown time, informs the player what shots to hit and has some cool book page animations on it that give it a really neat effect.

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