(Topic ID: 97083)

my new king pin ... errr ... with a twist :)

By manitouguy

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

B3BC23CC-B0C5-4FDA-89A1-8E6481A6177D (resized).jpeg
E2BEF9C1-60B8-424F-A038-E77007A6208E (resized).jpeg
BA6F50A4-0979-4C22-933B-538688391C29 (resized).jpeg
E7EB9900-52ED-43AB-907A-8061569C0AD2 (resized).jpeg
413BBDCD-CB21-411F-8221-41BE524AAD71 (resized).jpeg
IMG_9413 (resized).JPG
image (resized).jpeg
IMG_9402 (resized).JPG
IMG_9401 (resized).JPG
IMG_9379 (resized).JPG
IMG_9375 (resized).JPG
FullSizeRender (resized).jpg
IMG_9364 (resized).JPG
IMG_8819 (resized).JPG
916DB140-A854-45B0-9C79-6D660FCEF550 (resized).JPG
13744A1E-E998-45B6-AE05-9C7A1BF0DEFE (resized).JPG
There are 159 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
11
#1 9 years ago

just an excited post about my latest pinquisition ...

yes it is a King Pin!! ... but no it is not an EM (sorry where else could i post this ... better here than in the SS and newer pins sections)

Pace Manufacturing Co. 1932 King Pin

i have been looking for some interesting examples of pins from the various 'eras' and pinball evolution

When i saw this one i instantly fell in love with the colors and the theme and layout

It was listed locally on CL, but not knowing what it was i of course went to IPMD to learn more

http://www.ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=3983

and the only other info i could find on the interweb ...

http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=11836

What i immediately noticed was that the local version seemed much more colorful on its playfield - it must have been a later '32 upgrade or 'deluxe' evolution??

What i liked was the great skill shot, landing the ball in ye 'ol kings cake hole !! (i just love the art for the king)

All the pot metal castings are complete and unbroken and the simple mechanisms work great

I am already planning to reproduce the art in decal form to do a nice but sensitive restore

i do like the 82 yr patina ... but the owner admitted many years ago they shattered the glass (some of which i still found in the cabinet!!) and i think when they tried to wipe it away it added a few dings and scratches to the wear already there too

neat rules ... inside were 8 of the 10 balls - one was goldish and a few darker grey ... reading the rules this makes sense - if you land a ball of a color in its coodinating 'cup' then points were to be doubled

great little oak cabinet and at 16" w x 36" l and 7 1/2 - 10 1/2" d very easy to move too!

i will do a nice base and tapered legs in oak to fit the period (these were often counter top models as this one appears)

also have plans to rebuild a 'marquee' back board (check out the ipdb link) ... but i may do mine so the kings mouth illuminates when you get the skill shot ... then we can keep it here in the em section

a few pics from when i brought it home ...

king pin.JPGking pin.JPG

upper pf.JPGupper pf.JPG

lower pf.JPGlower pf.JPG

skill shot.JPGskill shot.JPG

i couldn't resist so removed the back panel, slid out the glass, unscrewed 3 screws which allows the playfield to slide out, then one screw to slide out a lower panel ... vacuumed all up and now know how the simple mechs perform .. more pics on that later

... and i must confess, although i love the '70s ems ... at least for me this art beats the gottieb king pin by a mile

if anyone has, or can help find more info on this machine out there in photos, trade ads etc etc would be much appreciated - or better yet if anyone has ever seen a proper marquee ... ! ...

cheers, Ron

#2 9 years ago

Wow man, now that is super cool. Looks like the PF will clean up nicely. Love the colors too, should be plenty of fun.

#3 9 years ago

pictures don't do the colors justice
alongside the red, yellow and black is a nice metallic gold ...
now this is a pin i can actually service! lol

should be a fun project with my non obtrusive plans too and nice to save a likely quite uncommon example as well

play is really fun even though totally mechanical - and i am a sucker for the simple latch mech that drops all the balls into the bottom to reset to another game

nicely done package all around

#4 9 years ago

Excellent. Nice find.

LTG : )™

#5 9 years ago

Ron,

Wow, what a find. This is a gorgeous piece. I hope you keep this thread updated as you move through your restoration.

...and, man, I love that marquee shown in the IPDB pics (...but how on earth do you plan on reproducing it?)

kingpin.jpgkingpin.jpg

An odd observation: I noticed the point values are different on yours than the ones shown here on the IPDB upload. Very weird! Why would they burn entirely new screens for the playfield just to have different point values? ...especially when all the rest of the art seems to be the same. Strange.

Regardless, what a fun piece. The "King's Cake Hole" is a classy touch, too.

I've favorited this thread in hopes of seeing your progress on this beauty.

Jealous,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
www.ElephantEater.com

#6 9 years ago

Very cool. Looking forward to seeing pictures the final product.

Ken

#7 9 years ago

Really cool and different. Maybe, a prototype of some sort?

#8 9 years ago

hi all, thanks - yes this should be a fun project with a neat machine

Ryan - i am the one who is jealous - you are a comic book artist!! - isn't that marquee great ! i have a few ideas on what i might do - not sure if i will try and do a 'faithful' version or one with a bit of my own take on it ... and neat catch on the scoring variations, curious and i hadn't noticed that either

itsonly - not sure about a prototype - there is a serial number on the back .. i still think maybe just an updated version later in the production run maybe ?? i considered that maybe it was an earlier one and they cut costs by simplifying ... but i don't think that makes much sense either

since there seems to be interest ... i will post a bunch of photos documenting the way king pin was assembled

i took them to help me remember how to re-assemble it and to use as i start trying to sort out what the restoration process will be!

i also thought others might find this reference useful or at least interesting as well -

1 king pin full.JPG1 king pin full.JPG

2 back panel lock hole.JPG2 back panel lock hole.JPG
serial number

3 back panel in.JPG3 back panel in.JPG

4 back panel.JPG4 back panel.JPG
not sure if this oak panel is original or not
it is quite specifically channeled and shaped to fit and seems old but odd it isn't stained ...
hole would have received a lock at some point in the past too

5 box with panels in.JPG5 box with panels in.JPG
with back panel removed glass can now slide out for access to the rest

#9 9 years ago

This may lack the challenges of your Sure Shot Ron!!

#10 9 years ago

true that wayner ... i've already torn it down twice and put it back together fully

a playfield swap seems less daunting and i won't run the risk of burning my place down either!

#11 9 years ago

Great find, thanks for sharing!

Quoted from RyanClaytor:

An odd observation: I noticed the point values are different on yours than the ones shown here on the IPDB upload.

I would bet this pin is a later production run than the one shown in IPDB. They might have adjusted the score downwards for these holes if those were obtained too easily?

#12 9 years ago

ok a few more pics

meant to sit on a flat counter - the main cabinet box is tapered and the playfield is sloped from that

6 cabinet side.JPG6 cabinet side.JPG

as you can see - a very '30s intricate and pretty floral design (decal of some sort??) .. i already have ideas for a bit of colorful 'custom' art coverup here - some red and gold rays and the king .. a bit more exciting than a bouquet !!

7 cabinet side detail.JPG7 cabinet side detail.JPG

just a shot of the underside

8 cabinet underside.JPG8 cabinet underside.JPG

not sure what might have been at front end ?? some type of coin box perhaps?
although John R. here had a look and said on most of these 'first' commercial pins the operators
just opened the back panel and tipped cabinet on end so the money slid to the back??

9 cabinet underside detail.JPG9 cabinet underside detail.JPG

#13 9 years ago

and a couple of shots of the front panel and plunger knob and nickel slide

10 front panel.JPG10 front panel.JPG

11 plunger and nickel slot.JPG11 plunger and nickel slot.JPG

it was suggested i put a rubber grommet between the plunger knob and its housing so there is no risk of it cracking when the plunger springs back against it - likely a good idea!

#14 9 years ago

ok lets take the inner panels out and see what is inside

13 alum arch in.JPG13 alum arch in.JPG

remove 4 screws to unfasten the upper ball arch

the arch now slides back out the rear panel opening

15 pf slide out 2.JPG15 pf slide out 2.JPG

16 alum arch.JPG16 alum arch.JPG

the whole piece is a single cast of aluminum - painted red on the top side

18 alum arch under.JPG18 alum arch under.JPG

with a simple pinned 'ball stop' attachment

19 ball stop under.JPG19 ball stop under.JPG

interesting that the company logo appears 'modified' too - in that the company name seems blacked out?

17 alum arch logo.JPG17 alum arch logo.JPG

#15 9 years ago

now lets take out the playfield

20 pf slide.JPG20 pf slide.JPG

3 counter sunk screws with small lockwashers under, removed from the right side of playfield along the shooter unit, free the playfield from the main cabinet

21 pf top.JPG21 pf top.JPG

just like the glass and aluminum top arch, the playfield slides out through the back panel opening

this shot gives you a sense of its smaller stature compared to a standard gottlieb wedge head

22 pf main traps.JPG22 pf main traps.JPG

another shot of the center 'traps'

23 pf underside underside.JPG23 pf underside underside.JPG

and here you see the simple but effective armature / lever that opens all the traps from underside when the coin slide is depressed

24 trap mech lower underside.JPG24 trap mech lower underside.JPG

26 pocket trap underside.JPG26 pocket trap underside.JPG

25 traps mech upper underside.JPG25 traps mech upper underside.JPG

27 king trap underside.JPG27 king trap underside.JPG

this one is the king's cake hole ...

ingeniously simple ... when the main bar of the armature is pushed forward by depressing the coin slide out front, the cross bars move away from the 'trap rests' and gravity drops the hinged trap doors, allowing any balls above to fall into the cabinet and be collected at shooter trough area

#16 9 years ago

Very interesting Ron and a great pic sequence. It looks as the size may belie the weight-what do you reckon it weighs? While I agree the bouquet is dated by todays standards I think it would be a great pity to vary the originality of this very special piece of history.

#17 9 years ago

Wayner - it doesn't way much ... hard to judge but it isn't too difficult to lift, mabye 50lbs .. likely less - just guessing!
will give it a weigh at some point so we know

as for any changes - they would just be non-obtrusive temp vinyl decals like i've looked at doing on other posts here for my '70s ems

nothing that couldn't be 'undone'

pictures sequence may be overkill but as i said it will help me remember to get it back together correctly - and also allows us 'in' on the construction logic of 'pinball' at the very beginning too

items such as the ball trough and plunger really stayed quite true over the decades for instance with a few simple mods

#18 9 years ago

I think your specimen is too good to even risk that the adhesive on the vinyl decals would ruin the underlying paint.

If this were mine, I'd scan the playfield, make the decals, but then install them on a new playfield.

Put the original aside and take the reproduction to the shows.....

#19 9 years ago

hi Vid, yes that is what i am planning to likely do - i agree

this playfield is pretty easy to reproduce i think ...

14 holes to cut somehow, then pre-drill for the pins??

am also going to build a lower stand base w legs, and some type of marquee etc

i think i will have to remove and re-use the 'mechanics' of course, and not sure if i should carefully bead blast and recolor those or not ... i may just leave them 'worn' ....

#20 9 years ago

So Ron, I am going out on a limb here, are you ditching all of those electro pins for just mechanical pins? When can I drive over and help you get rid of those electrical machines?
...



LOL LOL

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Ron,
Wow, what a find. This is a gorgeous piece. I hope you keep this thread updated as you move through your restoration.
...and, man, I love that marquee shown in the IPDB pics (...but how on earth do you plan on reproducing it?)

An odd observation: I noticed the point values are different on yours than the ones shown here on the IPDB upload. Very weird! Why would they burn entirely new screens for the playfield just to have different point values? ...especially when all the rest of the art seems to be the same. Strange.
Regardless, what a fun piece. The "King's Cake Hole" is a classy touch, too.
I've favorited this thread in hopes of seeing your progress on this beauty.
Jealous,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com

kingpin.jpg 22 KB

More than one model available. Note the OP's has two possible scores for each "compartmented large targets. The one on IPDB has single scores for each large target and they have simplified shutters on the larger diameter playfield targets.

Maybe Pace was ahead of the game with pro/premium/LE's.

#22 9 years ago

i have put an email out to a early '30s pin historian

when looking at ipdb ... it donned on me that the colors and hardware of the king pin are identical to some of the '32 gottlieb games - check out baffle ball and a few others !! hmmm

did pace get bought out in '32 - would that maybe be why the pace logo was blacked out on my king pin, and on another one or two i have seen photos of in my search

curious ...

#23 9 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

More than one model available. Note the OP's has two possible scores for each "compartmented large targets. The one on IPDB has single scores for each large target and they have simplified shutters on the larger diameter playfield targets.
Maybe Pace was ahead of the game with pro/premium/LE's.

The differences in the 2 games could have many answers. 2 different productions, 2 different years made, 1 has been upgraded years later. Hopefully the internet will help with the answers.

#24 9 years ago

could also simply have been like the other companies, baffle ball jr. , baffle ball, baffle ball sr. ... who knows

i do know the one i found is a much prettier and interesting layout !

#25 9 years ago

On IPDB look at the Pace 'Lucky Strike". Your King Pin may have been upgraded with those parts? - Maybe?

#26 9 years ago

i know, some same parts there ... three old ebay listings show more detailed lucky strikes too - was reviewing that this am and pondering ...

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from manitouguy:

14 holes to cut somehow, then pre-drill for the pins??

A pattern bit on a router will exactly duplicate the playfield.

A piece of wrapping paper will allow you to transfer all the pin holes. Nail through the paper template into the new playfield, then tear it out and throw it away.

24A61.jpg24A61.jpg

#28 9 years ago

thanks vid ... how exactly does a router 'pattern bit' work?? do you use the existing playfield as a template?

#29 9 years ago

ok lets remove the lower panel

one screw at middle back goes down into a post in cabinet bottom, remove that and the lower ply panel slides out

28 lower panel in.JPG28 lower panel in.JPG

30 lower panel.JPG30 lower panel.JPG

cleaned once in the '50s and then in the late '80s ... hey that's when i graduated high school!!

29 lower board notes.JPG29 lower board notes.JPG

32 lower board loose.JPG32 lower board loose.JPG

then we are left with the base cabinet - here vacuumed with a bunch of broken glass removed
you can see the ply 'patch' over the original hole in the cabinet base i showed earlier from cabinet underside

31 clean box.JPG31 clean box.JPG

#30 9 years ago

and a few shots of the internals ...

34 shooter rail.JPG34 shooter rail.JPG

cast shooter lane

35 gate mech.JPG35 gate mech.JPG

cast balls gate mech

36 plunger.JPG36 plunger.JPG

cast plunger rod assembly (buckwerx has a rubber plunger tip for their rockolas available .. i may try and see if a regular '70s black shooter tip will work ..)

#31 9 years ago

and a few final shots of it as it stands ...

37 logo mod.JPG37 logo mod.JPG

blacked out manufacturer's label

38 gates closed.JPG38 gates closed.JPG

balls gate closed

39 gates open.JPG39 gates open.JPG

balls gate opened (the free play hole is neat - if ball goes down it you get to plunge that ball again

40 cake hole open.JPG40 cake hole open.JPG

cake hole opened ... that's a true 'gobble hole'

#32 9 years ago
Quoted from manitouguy:

thanks vid ... how exactly does a router 'pattern bit' work?? do you use the existing playfield as a template?

You clamp the two playfields together and then route the new one.

The bearing on the bit rides on the edge of the old playfield.

#33 9 years ago

thanks,

will a router like that, if used properly, cut the top layer of ply nice and cleanly without any ripping or chipping?

#34 9 years ago

If they are clamped tight, there should be no chipping at all, unless there is a defect in the plywood.

#35 9 years ago

and as for the 'pins' or nails

do you think i should re-use the old ones or keep those w old pf and put some new ones in

new might look to bright and shiny?

#36 9 years ago

and where might i source some smaller pinballs in a gold and darker finishes .. hmmm

#38 9 years ago

Very neat find.would like to own something like this one day.
Ted

#39 9 years ago

Wayne Namerow may be able to shed some light on this game and it's history. http://www.pinballhistory.com/

#40 9 years ago

thanks guys

any advice on how i should try and carefully remove the pins (nails) from the playfield?

#41 9 years ago

I would use vice grips and turn before you pull.
Ted

#42 9 years ago

lets make a new playfield

i was able to pull all the pins carefully by hand - took some good grip strength but was safest to not damage anything (those pins have a great patina - darker where they were exposed to the air for 80 yrs)

dismantled the bar assembly and ball traps hardware off of the back and baggied all the various bits

gave the bare playfield a gentle wipe just to get some dust off

tried to take a shot to show off its colors - may be too much glare

41 bare pf.JPG41 bare pf.JPG

this might be better (i've actually scanned the full playfield in parts ... but this photo may just work too hmm)

42 bare pf.JPG42 bare pf.JPG

backside of playfield

43 pf backside.JPG43 pf backside.JPG

there is a taper or bevel cut at bottom edge of playfield i will have to replicate on the new one

44 pf taper edge.JPG44 pf taper edge.JPG

and the king's cake hole ball trap sits in this 'dished' out insert area ... how do i cut one like that ....?

45 cake hole.JPG45 cake hole.JPG

just a shot to show how the balls roll down and onto the bottom of balls gate and over to plunger trough

46 balls.JPG46 balls.JPG

and all the bits tidied away while i start the playfield redraw

47 parts.JPG47 parts.JPG

#43 9 years ago
Quoted from manitouguy:

i am the one who is jealous - you are a comic book artist!!

Ha-ha! Thanks, Ron. I've also done a bit of cross-over into the world of pinball: http://www.elephanteater.com/9967

Okay, didn't mean to derail the thread. Back to your acquisition:

Quoted from manitouguy:

isn't that marquee great !

Oh, and how!

Quoted from manitouguy:

i have a few ideas on what i might do - not sure if i will try and do a 'faithful' version or one with a bit of my own take on it ...

I can't wait to see what you do!

...and while I don't want to be a negative nancy, I'd probably side with wayner on this issue...

Quoted from wayner:

While I agree the bouquet is dated by todays standards I think it would be a great pity to vary the originality of this very special piece of history.

...except I actually think that's some beautiful side-cab art. That's probably the next thing I was drawn to, after the marquee...and the cake-hole, of course. Anyhow, it looks like it's withstood the decades surprisingly well. At the very least, make a high res scan before taking it off the cabinet. I've tried steaming decals off before and it was a nightmare. The decals were ruined and there was no hope of recovering them. Thankfully the decal I ruined had been repro'ed.

Anyhow, thanks a bunch for posting all these pics. I know it was sort of for your edification, but this documentation was FASCINATING!

Still glued to this thread,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com

#44 9 years ago

P.S.

Quoted from manitouguy:

may be too much glare

Oh, wow. Up until this most recent post of yours I just assumed that color was a yellowed/dingy white paint. But now I see that it is a METALLIC GOLD, right?

This score of yours just keeps getting better and better. Man...Ron...this is a cool piece.

Keep the documentation comin'!

#45 9 years ago

yes metallic gold .. very pretty

lots more to come

cheers, Ron

#46 9 years ago
Quoted from RyanClaytor:

Ha-ha! Thanks, Ron. I've also done a bit of cross-over into the world of pinball: http://www.elephanteater.com/9967

Ryan - i saw this on your page the other day - and LIKE it!!! very nice work

i dabble in illustrating now and then - to keep from being too bored with the day job

do you hand draw and ink or do you use computer software and pen / tablet

i love the look of the blue line with ink over ... i have a cintiq that i love (12wx - not the latest fancy ones though)

flower bouquets will not be damaged ... they are on there real good too

i may do a temp something over top .. we will see

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from manitouguy:

and the king's cake hole ball trap sits in this 'dished' out insert area ... how do i cut one like that .

Goggle "router bit profiles" and find the match.

#48 9 years ago

Hi Ron,

Quoted from manitouguy:

i saw this on your page the other day - and LIKE it!!! very nice work

Thanks a bunch for your kind words. Very much appreciated.

Quoted from manitouguy:

do you hand draw and ink or do you use computer software and pen / tablet

I have kind of a hybrid method where I'm in and out of the computer. The Cliff Notes version is:

A) Layout/Panel/Letter in Illustrator
B) Print-out blueline on Bristol
C) Hand-pencil all characters, backgrounds, etc
D) Hand-ink everything
E) Scan into Photoshop for final corrections and colors.

There's an exhaustive photo documentation of my process here:

http://www.elephanteater.com/5204

...one major change to this method is that I'm starting to illustrate my pencils on a pressure sensitive tablet (LE 1700)...

le1700_thumb.jpgle1700_thumb.jpg

...(got one used for a steal) but I still prefer to print-out bluelines of my digital pencils on bristol and ink by hand. I haven't found that happy place with digital inking yet. Plus, it gives me an original to sell after the work is done.

Quoted from manitouguy:

i dabble in illustrating now and then

Would love to see some of your work!

Quoted from manitouguy:

flower bouquets will not be damaged ...

SOOO relieved. Seriously, those are gorgeous.

Quoted from vid1900:

Goggle "router bit profiles"

Quoted from vid1900:

I think your specimen is too good to even risk that the adhesive on the vinyl decals would ruin the underlying paint.

If this were mine, I'd scan the playfield, make the decals, but then install them on a new playfield.

Put the original aside and take the reproduction to the shows.....

Quoted from vid1900:

A pattern bit on a router will exactly duplicate the playfield.

Just gotta say, Vid, you are the man!

Sincerely,
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com

#49 9 years ago

Ryan, again thanks for the comments and info

was interesting reading your process on your comic illustrations - you make it look easy ! very nice work

is that tablet similar to a wacom cintiq? will have to look it up

i like my cintiq but must agree - still not the same as drawing by hand..but does have its pros too

i use a great program called autodesk sketchbook pro for 'sketching' digitally as well as my all time fav adobe illustrator - a truly powerful tool kit that i really am just scratching the surface on

my process for illustration, or when i do some work with design for a pinball (like my 'lunker' re-theme) is similar in first very rough idea sketches that evolve to the finished product

... are we off topic here re king pin ... not really !!! right now i am testing some techniques for redrawing the playfield in illustrator ... and i am obsessively fanatical about drawing every shape and stroke as close to the original as possible - can make for a loooonger process but the results are worth it in my opinion ...

as i stare at the beautiful 'patina'd' original playfield i am wondering why am i redrawing, or attempting to redraw it - and i guess the answer is to see if i can meet the challenge - and also to see if i can produce another 'what if' or show what a vibrant and pristine King Pin may have looked like in '32!!

if i'm not too lazy i will show a bit of the redraw later tonight

on another angle ... must look into if i can even get a piece of nice plywood these days similar to the one for the original playfield - 3/8" and what veneer to take stain and look like original ..

also need to call my sign co. that prints the vinyls and see if they can do a metallic gold .. if not .. will have to think of options

more to come

cheers, Ron

#50 9 years ago

Not to hijack this post. There is currently on Kijiji, in Calgary, a 1933 Steeple Chase. Full Mechanical table top game.

The ad was gone, the next day.

There are 159 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/my-new-king-pin-errr-with-a-twist and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.