(Topic ID: 160591)

My never ending repair...

By uncle_jose

7 years ago


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#1 7 years ago

While I tackle most of the suggestions I had gather in the last week from you guys (thank you very much, btw!), I just found (another) issue with my Space Mission; while watching (with jealousy) other Space Mission pins being played on Youtube I noticed that the "Special when lit" outlane light alternate with the other one after some slingshots are hit... as expected (and not surprised) mine doesn't do it, when it lit, it will only lit (an award) the left outlane, it never alternate with the right one...

**sigh**

Any suggestion on where to look for?

Thanks again!

#2 7 years ago

Look for a make/break switch on the change relay that was designed to alternate the special feature between the 2 outlanes (see location B-9 on the schematic). Check the change relay to see if that switch is changing state, or is misadjusted.

If the change relay itself is not getting energized, look to an alternator switch on the 0-9 match unit (see location F-22 on the schematic). Check to see if the coil on the change relay has wires intact and is not burnt out. Also check the match unit to inspect the alternator switch that should be providing signal to the change relay.

Lee

#3 7 years ago

Hi uj
theory from runbikeskilee, for to look -> here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2253&picno=37040 -> in the centre of the picture I see the Replay-Unit. Just above (nice brown bakelite stuff): The Number-Match-Unit.
My Number-Match-Unit has a Nylon gear, about 8 teeth on the outside - every time the No-Match-Unit is stepped -> a Switchblade is moved -> closing -> opening -> closing etc. a Switch. And through this Switch (when closed): CHANGE-Relay is activated - it pulls. And when the switch is open: Change-Relay is NOT activated.
The Change-Relay is mounted on the Underneath-Side of the playfield: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2253&picno=37038 -> the looooong wooden stick with the many relys mounted -> the Change-Relay is the fifth relay (counting top-down). WHENEVER You make 50 points -> activated / de-activated through the No-Match-Unit -> Change-Relay will be pulling for a while -> will be not-pulling for a while etc. Greetings Rolf

#4 7 years ago

Thanks guys! I'll report my findings and progress as I make progress on this one!

~jose

1 month later
#5 7 years ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

Look for a make/break switch on the change relay that was designed to alternate the special feature between the 2 outlanes (see location B-9 on the schematic). Check the change relay to see if that switch is changing state, or is misadjusted.
If the change relay itself is not getting energized, look to an alternator switch on the 0-9 match unit (see location F-22 on the schematic). Check to see if the coil on the change relay has wires intact and is not burnt out. Also check the match unit to inspect the alternator switch that should be providing signal to the change relay.
Lee

Hello Lee!

My Match unit is not working, is stuck on one number (always 40) would this be culprit? I still need to identify the change relay on the rows of switches and relays.

Best,

~ja

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi uj
theory from runbikeskilee, for to look -> here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2253&picno=37040 -> in the centre of the picture I see the Replay-Unit. Just above (nice brown bakelite stuff): The Number-Match-Unit.
My Number-Match-Unit has a Nylon gear, about 8 teeth on the outside - every time the No-Match-Unit is stepped -> a Switchblade is moved -> closing -> opening -> closing etc. a Switch. And through this Switch (when closed): CHANGE-Relay is activated - it pulls. And when the switch is open: Change-Relay is NOT activated.
The Change-Relay is mounted on the Underneath-Side of the playfield: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2253&picno=37038 -> the looooong wooden stick with the many relys mounted -> the Change-Relay is the fifth relay (counting top-down). WHENEVER You make 50 points -> activated / de-activated through the No-Match-Unit -> Change-Relay will be pulling for a while -> will be not-pulling for a while etc. Greetings Rolf

Thanks Rolf, as I mentioned earlier my match unit doesn't move at all... so I guess there's my problem. If I can only make it move...

*sigh*

Thanks!

~ja

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from uncle_jose:

Hello Lee!
My Match unit is not working, is stuck on one number (always 40) would this be culprit? I still need to identify the change relay on the rows of switches and relays.
Best,
~ja

That could do it.
Work the targets manually to light up the special and then dvance the match unit one notch by manually working the coil plunger one time. Watch to see if the special alternates to the other outlane.

Lee

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

That could do it.
Work the targets manually to light up the special and then dvance the match unit one notch by manually working the coil plunger one time. Watch to see if the special alternates to the other outlane.
Lee

Ok... so I checked the match unit, the "curved" switch was -always- in contact, I adjusted it so it now open and close if I manually turn the shaft. The coil behind pushes in the tiny metal latch by triggering a switch on the playfield... BUT it seems that this tiny metal latch is missing something, something to make the shaft turn, perhaps? Pic attached.

IMG_9846_(resized).JPGIMG_9846_(resized).JPG

-1
#9 7 years ago

Ok.. upon further investigation, it seems that I'm missing part of the "metal activator plate" pic below...

So the big question is, how can I replace/repair this? what are my choices?

Many thanks again!

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#10 7 years ago

Hi uj
in post-9 You show the picture in http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps . I feel a bit uneasy - I put it in a question: "Could it be that the 'big brown tongue' being mounted bottom up (in the picture) is mounted wrong ?".

Look here : https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-does-an-alternator-unit-do -> post-4 , in the first JPG I plastered letters all over --- I believe the "tongue 'F' " in the pinrepair-picture is mounted wrong - as I see (in pinrepair-picture) the end of the "tongue 'F' " riding on the nylon gear --- I believe it should be below the nylon gear - see it in pinside-post-4-JPG-3 ?

The pinside-post-4-JPG-2 shows a Stepper NOT HAVING that precious "Alternator Switch" - so do not study.

Can You see "J" and "K" moved --- so "L" is altering , closing for a while - then a step, therefore opening for a while ? Greetings Rolf

#11 7 years ago

Hi uj
Yes, You miss the "C"- and "D"-Stuff. In my Space Mission I have an "strange" little Stepping Unit --- not having "J", "K", "L", "M", see the JPG. I never see it move --- If You also have such a strange little stepping unit (?) well want to steal from there the needed "C"- and "D"-Stuff ?
(((I refer to https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-does-an-alternator-unit-do#post-3203672 ))) Greetings Rolf

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#12 7 years ago

Thanks rolf, In my case the piece is broken, I have an "Aztec" that is sitting next to it with the same stepper and that one works fine. I will be curious if there's a creative way on fixing this stepper, I seriously doubt anyone have replacements pieces nowadays.. sigh.

As for your stepper on the lower cabinet, interesting. I'll check my cabinet. What the diagram says about it?

Thanks again!

~ja

#13 7 years ago

Hi uj
I refer to: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-does-an-alternator-unit-do#post-3203672 the close-up picture of (here) post-11.
I have never seen this thing moving - I do not know if it does alternate helping on "TWO coins for ONE game ???" I do not feel like "investigating on that" --- do I want do damage my running Space Mission ? ...

You are missing "the part 'D' and the spring and the holding axis": https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-does-an-alternator-unit-do#post-3203050 --- look at Your functioning "Aztec-Unit" - see how 'D' is pressed against 'E' / 'I' 'J', the nylon-gear, so when 'C' is moved then 'D' hooks-in under the next tooth on 'E/I/J'. Want to take an old can of beer/coke and an old scissor and make an "homemade new 'D' - an leaf blade standing upright - pressing slightly against 'E' " ?

I live in Europe - I never had a look in "pinside - buy and sell subforum" - want to try to buy an spare "Williams No-Match-Unit (with or without the alternator stuff)" - as You only need 'C' and 'D' ???

I wrote about NEW Relais: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/chicago-coin-sound-stage-a-thru-f-target-issue/page/2#post-3188493 --- in Europe I would try to buy a new FINDER-Stepper, YOU in the USA - want to investigate on: http://www.ia.omron.com/products/family/965/specification.html --- is this an "on - off - on - off etc." stepper. If so, then You could use this for the activation / de-activation of "Change-Relay" (of course, You will not have the No-Match-functionality).

I assume FINDER does not make (no more) AC-Steppers, I would investigate "WHAT is DC-sensitive ?" and maybe buy from here: http://www.tracepartsonline.net/(S(dk5fhlm1hmvcj20l5mivhozn))/PartDetails.aspx?Class=FINDER&clsid=/F_FINDER/FINDER.010/FINDER.010.010/&ManID=FINDER&PartFamilyID=10-30012009-084100&PartID=10-30012009-084100&SrchRsltId=5&SrchRsltType=0 an 24 Volt DC Stepper - as Space Mission HAS an bridge-rectifier to produce 24 Volt DC for Bumpers ...
(((You may ask the OMROM-people about 24 Volt DC ?)))

Back to "making Your own stepper": Take an old Score-Drum-Unit with an plastic-wheel mounted (for the player to see the points) --- in position-0, pos-2, -4, -6, -8 You glue on a stripe of metal left to right onto the plastic wheel, You mount two leaf switches riding on the plastic wheel --- in pos-0, -2, -4, -6, -8 BOTH leaf switches ride on the glued-on metal: current can flow --- AND You have made Your own "Alternating Stepper".
Greetings Rolf

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from uncle_jose:

Ok.. upon further investigation, it seems that I'm missing part of the "metal activator plate" pic below...
So the big question is, how can I replace/repair this? what are my choices?

I bought one for my Space Odyssey from Johns Jukes.

I think they have them in stock still. They seem to break alot

--Jeff

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

I bought one for my Space Odyssey from Johns Jukes.
I think they have them in stock still. They seem to break alot
--Jeff

Awesome... found it! Thanks Jeff and rofl for their input!

https://www.flippers.com/catalog/product_info.php/armature-plate-assembly-p-5568

3 weeks later
#16 7 years ago

So... after a few days I finally got the armature for the match unit which make me realize now I'm missing the tiny spring that goes under (10A-324-I).

*sigh*

Anyway... I (also) realize that the coil is not "firing", I would love to replace the coil but on my experience a broken wire to the coil can be also the culprit, is there a way I can manually "fire" this coil? I tried to follow the schematics of where this coil gets its power (to bypass the original wiring) but I was lost among those skinny drawing lines.

Any light on this matter will be (as usual) greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

~j

#17 7 years ago
Quoted from uncle_jose:

is there a way I can manually "fire" this coil?

i use a 9v battery to test my coils

--Jeff

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

i use a 9v battery to test my coils
--Jeff

Oh.. great idea... thanks!

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