Sorry, but RFM and AFM are nowhere close to being "the exact same game". Obviously there are similarities, especially with the theme, but that's pretty much where it ends.

And the layout.

I don't get that at all. There's a TON of similarities between the two for me.

This is just one of those "we'll have to agree to disagree" moments.

I you think the layout between AFM and RFM are exactly the same, then you must also think that MB, MM, TF, T2 and any other fan layout pin are the same as well.

Trust me, RFM and AFM do not play alike at all. I have RFM in my current line up. It's fun, but it ain't AFM.

Yes, I do. I also, brace yourself, think Whirlwind/TAF/RBION/etc etc all have basically the same layout. And I don't want to melt your diodes completetly, but I also think HS & HS2 are very similar!

I also don't need to "trust you" aboot such matters, I've been playing awhile thanks.
And yes I agree they do not play the same.

Little things like it being a sequel, having basically the same layout, martian multiball, stroke of luck, etc etc...I mean it's kind of maybe a little bit similar. If you don't think so, that's cool, I don;t need to debate all night aboot it. To each their own.

That's fine, I have no problem with that, as we actually agree more than disagree, especially in light of your last sentence. Semantics more than anything. I mean obviously there are similarities, as there are with any fan layout pin. But there are differences too. Where is the shot on the left side of RFM that brings the ball back around to the *right* flipper for example (like there is on AFM)? Doesn't exist. So it's the statement that they are "pretty much exactly the same" game that I disagree with.

Sure sure...little nuances here and there. We also need to remember that Gomez likes to borrow ideas off other people, so mentioning his machines looking like other machines shouldn't be a shock

You'd think a space ghost avatar would forewarn people of sarcasm ahead. Oh well.

Does RFM have Strobe MB?

No, but it has something extremely similar: The Hypno Beam.

It has Hypnobeam multiball...which has strobs

What's similar about it?

Is there strobing other than the spiral thing?

The GI lights drop out and whatnot like on AFM. It's a very similar experience to AFM's strobe multiball.

Hmmm yeah I watched that video too and didn't notice strobing. I know it flashes when you hit the spiral.
Hmm...I'd be willing to bet something is not right on that machine, other than it being very bright.

9:00 in...a little better look

Yeah, that room in the video I linked too is entirely too bright. Pretty much kills the effect.

Having just done the Hypno Beam a few minutes ago (on what was previously Fatsquatch's machine actually) in a completely dark room, I can attest that is probably the reason for the seizure warning sticker. Whoa. I have never played AFM but Hypno is pretty darn fun. I will have to see if I can get video in total darkness sometime.

That makes a lot more sense, thanks for posting

This says it all.

I remember thinking (while playing this exact same AFM) what a joke it would be to tell my wife to come over and try out an $8000 pinball machine! The G.I. is half-out, the flippers are weak, and it was pretty dirty, plus the sound was turned way down. Not very impressive. Then I was luckily afforded the chance to play Jim McCune's AFM any time I want. Wahoo! Wow. What an eye opener.

Believe it or not there is a difference between a routed title, any title and a nice to very nice example. Yeah I know, duh. These beat up machines might sell for thousands, but that doesn't mean they play like it. (The MM at the PHOF wouldn't register castle gate hits, bummer)

I can't imagine anyone paying $4-5k for POTC, mainly because the only one I've ever played was the POS at Chuck E. Cheese. I'm pretty sure I'm probably wrong. Point being, you absolutely can't judge a pin until you've played one that is in shape and loved by a pinsider. Then...if you don't like it. So be it.

I LOVE this game. This game will never leave my collection.

Add a shaker motor and it's even better.....
Love the DMD extra ball.....
add a big sub woofer....awesome!!!

I better lose some weight so I can be buried in it!!!!

TL:

Didn't know you were Canadian!

Dan

The wizard mode is a little weak for AFM. I have done RTU about 14 times now, and only the first time when I didn't know what I was trying to do, do it I not complete the point requirement. Every shots is worth points, so as long as you flail away, you are bound to score a couple super JPs and it's hard not to win it. Still fun though, and a great sound and light show.

In many ways, the RTU part is the beginning of the wizard mode. Getting victory laps is the key to high scores and can be quite difficult with risk of draining from hitting the saucer always looming. I always view RTU as the easy prelude to my quest to beat old high scores and hit tons of victory laps. That is one of the subtle touches that makes the game great, imo.

N

I think RFM was a decent Pin. Just can't stand the video projection on the PF, very distracting and just takes away from Pinball in general. I personally believe that Pin2000 would have failed within a few years.

AFM just has a lot going for it:
Layout
Shots,
Rules,
DMD animation,
Humor, and more Humor.

It's not your ignorance. Like everything else, it's simply a matter of taste.

Never a big fan of AFM
but if it's the only game in town I'll drop some coin in her

I think its more like a reward to get there rather than having to do something very difficult to get the 5 bill. AFM is a great game.

You're not alone. I don't care for the game either.

The theme just doesn't do anything for me, and the artwork is terrible, IMHO. Even though you don't play the theme or the artwork, those are two major factors to me in deciding if I like something/or want to own it....

In the software settings, there is an adjustment that opens up the gates at certain times which allows orbits and an inner loop via the lock shot which is similar to AFM, but on the opposite side.

So there!

I went with cash in hand to buy an AFM and after a half hour of playing it left with my cash. This particular game was kind of a roach but I don't care if the play field was covered with marble from the lost world of Atlantis and ordained by the pope shop job i thought it blew. I lifted the play field to look it over and it was a plank with one giant light board fastened to it. Where is the 5-10k worth of parts? Any whole item should be at least worth the sum of its parts is that giant light PCB worth 3k I thought? Truth is this hobby is just sad and full of both greedy and gullible people.

Nice try.

That right inner loop on RFM puts the ball in the pop bumpers, it is *not* a ramp shot, and it does not bring the ball directly back to the opposite flipper.

Thanks for playing.

Nice try yourself

With the software settings enabled, at certain times the gate will be open allowing the ball to loop around bypassing the bumpers and returning down the left orbit. It does return the ball directly to the flipper, just not to the left inlane.

If you think the bottom of an AFM looks barren, try looking under the hood of a recent Stern...and they cost just as much.

The light lock loop shot is available as a software adjustment in v. 1.30 and above. Here is the revision note:

Version 1.30 - November 24, 1999
(Changes From V1.20)

Added Martian Champion.
Added a jet bumper rule.
Added a ball saver (for the start of a new ball).
Added a victory lap rule. (Similar to Attack From Mars, started when
Attack Mars has been won.
Added the ability to loop the ball under certain conditions.
(Scenes where the shot does nothing, or if LOCK is lit let the ball loop around.)
Adjustments are added to control this behavior. (Default: OFF)
Added an adjustment to let the ball loop through the loop shots during bonus wave sudden death.
Adjustment "Bonus Wave Ending" has 2 settings:
"Ramps+Loops" (original behavior) and ""Ramp Only" (new behavior)
More "Family Mode" logic added.
Added service credit switch debounce.
Fixed a bug at the start of Mother Ship that sometimes caused no balls to kick out
at multiball start.

The software adjustment is: "Capture M.B. Light Lock Loops" default is off
The adjustment to enable orbit shots is: "Loop Dead Scene Shots" default is off

So, certainly not identical behavior to AFM, but it does approximate more of the shots..... Just sayin'

Was lucky to have a MM and AFM in the same pub just when i got into pinball. Didn't even know what precious was standing there . Didn't like the AFM at all. 90% of the time i was playing the MM and now it changed. AFM is the best pin ever made in my opinion. Have one at home, but still "wasting" money nearly every weekend playing the pin when i'm in the pub. For me it's the flow, the relatively simple rules and the hilarious humor. But even though the rules are simple it's still hard to rule the universe which makes me try again and again.

Back from the dead thread! AFM is classic. A pin that people have been talking about since the day it came out.

I have never had the pleasure of playing AFM, but have played RFM and LOVED it. I think RFM is a great game and a great deal at $3K (give or take a couple hundred bucks) from a fun to price stand point.

Man i really disliked afm and didn't understand the big deal about it but ive owned it for few months now and its pure pinball greatness. It has amazing flow, tight shots, great bash toy, nice light shows and neat strobe and best of all great coding and rules. Just a all around awesome pinball experience and is just hella fun to play.

In my opinion RFM has really just a tiny bit in common with AFM. Gameplay can't be compared and this is what makes AFM such a great pin.

Strobe multiball. End of story.

Can't believe how many comments above stated that AFM is just like RFM? I'm sure there are many similarities (since RFM was inspired by AFM) but saying they are almost interchangeably similar sounds insane to me.

I don't like any of the games w/Mars in the title.

AFM is a great pin. I unfortnately owned an RFM and I can say it stinks. I always try to appreciate games with extensive play, but I really got bored with RFM animations after few plays. So bad to see them over and over again. It fits on location for kids, thats it. When I sold it I was relieved as never before. Its the worst pinball machine I've ever played. Really a disaster. All people with a minimum amount of experience in pinball agree (excluding people who didnt sell it yet, of course

wholly thread resurrection batman!

I felt the same way the first few times I played it, but after playing it for a while its really an incredibly fun pin...has a great layout, great ramps, great humor, easy ruleset, awesome theme, and is very challenging to rule the universe...I totally get why its rated so high...

Remember, this was a thread made when AFM spiked to $8K. There was a lot of "jealous backlash" where people played coy, acting like they didn't get it - when really - AFMs had dried up and beaters with white and yellow cabinets were going for $5K+.

Now, everyone can get one, so this question has been largely nullified.

AFM and MM are the two greatest pins ever made. They are a perfect combination of layout flow, depth of code, humor, sounds and appearance. The problem the machines have is everyone has played them to death so there is a boredom factor now. I just think both of these games are complete masterpieces and it's hard to improve upon anything with taking something away from somewhere else.