(Topic ID: 135385)

My huge rewiring screwup! HELP! Gtlb Spirit of 76 score reels


By Barky_Dog

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Merf
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_4400.jpg
Schematic_9th_Hundreds.jpg
Schematic.jpg
Wiring_1.jpg

#1 3 years ago

Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can help me. I'm still trying to rehab an old Gottleib "Spirit of 76", and I've hit a major roadblock. The 1-Player reels were really gummed up, the solenoids looked toasty, and some of the switch contacts looked worn. So, I decide to be smart and replace the 1P solenoids and switches with the 4P one (which looked new). Big mistake!

Wiring_1.jpg

I desoldered the old 1P parts and soldered in the 4P parts. I thought I had all the wires mapped out, but I obviously switched some wires somewhere. Now, the 1P reels won't reset to 0, even though the switched are making good connection. And, two of the reels are moving at the same time, like they are chained together.

Could someone with a "Spirit of 76" do me a HUGE favor and snap some pics of the wires to their 1P score reels? I don't need the wipers, I just need the solenoid wires and the switch wires.

Big thanks in advance,

Barky

#2 3 years ago

Do you have a schematic? That should show which color wires go to which switches.

I have a Pioneer machine (2-player version of Spirit of 76), so if you don't have a schematic I can snap a pic of my score reels (and hope the wiring colors are the same between 2P and 4P versions).

#3 3 years ago

Sounds like you have the 1st player zero position switch (open at zero) and 9th position switch (closed at 9) tied together at a decagon unit. You should be able to compare to a working player set of decagon units in your game to find the issue.

Steve

#4 3 years ago

make sure the switches are good and clean

#5 3 years ago

Well, I checked all of the stitch contacts with a continuity tester, and they are good. I think the issue is that I miswired the switches, so obviously the reels are not acting the way they should.

Merf - I do have the schematic. I've really tried reading it, but it all looks like greek to me. I guess is it has something to do with this section, but it does not make sense to me.

Schematic.jpg

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Barky_Dog:

Now, the 1P reels won't reset to 0,

Does the 4p work correctly? The reel you swapped?

#7 3 years ago

Barky,

The main part of the schematic in your JPG relates to the match feature, not the scoring. But look along the top of what you pasted. You'll see switches labeled "9th Pos Hundreds" and "On Add Hundreds" for each of the 4 players. Switches are the little sets of two vertical lines. Open switches have just the two vertical lines. Closed switches have the two vertical lines, plus a diagonal line going between them. I visualize the schematic as having "power" in the left-most vertical line in your picture, and "ground" is the right-most vertical line. The curly "pigtail" things are coils (relays or solenoids).

The M relay is for scoring 100 points, the L relay is for 1000 points. You see the Hundreds Chime solenoid (at the very top left of your picture) gets energized when the M (100 pt) relay closes, because the switch labeled "M" (over toward the right) closes and completes the circuit. If you look elsewhere on the schematic, you can find the "Add 1st 100s Unit" solenoid (for example), which is the coil that advances the 100 pt score reel for player 1. You will see that that coil gets energized through another switch on the M relay, and also through one of the switches (like P1C) on the Player unit (which controls which player's score is getting bumped up).

The wires in between the switches and coils are all labeled (on the schematic) with a color code (like BL-WH for Blue with a White tracer, there should be a key on the schematic). So look, for example, at the "Add 1st 100s Unit" coil on the schematic. What are the colors on each side of that coil? The main "power" side of everything is typically black. The other side of the coil will be labeled on the schematic (let's suppose it is OR-RED). Then go look at the actual wires connected to the coil on the 1st player 100 point reel. If one wire is black and the other is OR-RED (orange with red tracer), then it is OK.

On each of the score reels, there is a "9th Position" switch that closes when that reel is showing "9". There is also a "Zero Position" (or "Reset") switch, and a "Runout" switch (closed when the reel is non-zero). In addition, there are two switches (labeled "On Add 1st Hundreds" etc.) - one normally open and one normally closed, that get closed (or opened) when the score reel coil pulls in and advances the reel. You can see each of these switches if you examine the score reel closely. You can also find those switches on the schematic and check the wire colors that should be attached to them.

Looking at your picture, you'll see that the "L" (1000 pt) relay gets energized when that switch on the M relay closes, IF the 9th position switch AND the "On Add Hundreds" switch for the current player are also closed. This is what adds 1000 points when the hundreds reel is at 900 (9th position) and you score 100 more points (closing the M relay and bumping the 100s reel "up" to zero). When the 100 pt score coil pulls in and advances itself, the "On Add Hundreds" switch (that is normally open) closes, thereby energizing the L relay and also advancing the 1000 reel.

I am no expert myself, but hopefully this helps a little.

#8 3 years ago

Gosh, Merf. Thanks for such a detailed response! You are teaching me to fish, which I appreciate. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around your guidance on reading that schematic. Please let me know if I am making a correct assumption below.

Schematic 9th Hundreds.jpg

#9 3 years ago

Here is a pic of the 1P 'hundreds' score reel wiring layout. You will see the wires a faded, but this may help you.

IMG_4400.jpg

#10 3 years ago

Thank you, oldpins!

#11 3 years ago

Hi Barky
You approach Your problem assuming "wrong soldering". Maybe it is - maybe not. Merf is guiding - I would like to get answer from You (because I do not completely understand).

In post-1 you write "1P Reels won't reset to 0" - "Two of the reels at the same time".
Question: You start a game - do 1P Reels do step some steps ? Do ALL 1P Reels do some steps ? How far do they step ? If You manually set the 1P reels to 23450 - what happens at start of a new game ?
To me it is common: On Reset-Cycle Reels step "together" (they are pulsed by the same relay).

Does the Reset-Cycle end in some (crummy) way (what ?) - can You play the given (?) ball ? - and NOW (making points) it happens: "Two of the reels step at the same time" ? Greetings Rolf

#12 3 years ago

Barky, in response to your question about the wire colors in the annotated schematic clip: Actually no, I think one wire will be orange and white MOTTLED (it shows as OR+WH, not OR-WH). And for the other one, note that the MAR-WH wire (that connects to the Hundreds Chime coil) does NOT connect to the wire from the 9th position switch. Lines that cross WITH A DOT indicates a connection, but line crosses with NO dot have no connection. So the wire on the other side of the 9th position switch (other side versus the OR+WH wire) will be the GR-WH-RED wire (coming from the L relay coil).

Hope you're getting closer to figuring everything out! I am learning also as I go along!

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 399.95
$ 35.00
$ 21.95
Apparel - Unisex
Pinball Wheezer
$ 54.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
£ 49.00
Lighting - Led
PinballToys
$ 229.99
$ 25.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
From: $ 5,599.95
Pinball Machine
Pinball Pro
$ 44.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinWorlds
$ 89.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 0.35
$ 22.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
€ 159.00
Cabinet - Toppers
FlipperLED
$ 319.00
Displays
Boston Pinball Company
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
From: $ 5.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Medisinyl Mods
From: $ 42.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside