Watching closely. Great job so far with the cabinet, the finish product is going to be incredible!
(Topic ID: 246769)
Linked Games
Mata Hari
Bally, 1978
Topic Gallery
Denver, CO
I've used the Molotow chrome paint pens before... they've been a bit of a game changer in the scale modeling market, really easy to handle, and the paint in the pens can be poured right into a regular airbrush and used directly with no modification.
If those spray paints are in the same quality class, you're in for a treat.
1 week later
So I started painting the head with the Molotov satin paints today. In the garage, 70-75 degrees. Surface horizontal, sanded smooth to 400g, wiped with tack cloth to remove dust. Thin light coats, wait 4 mins, reshake can, spray lightly again. Did this around 6-8 a side, depending on coverage.
Well let me just say this is the oddest paint I’ve ever used. It does not spray on wet. It is best described as a mist or cloud. It’s almost like laying down fine layers of powder. Used 4 cans today with the stock wide nozzles & they all sprayed the same.
Will will say that the paints are full of pigment. Very vibrant yellow. But since it sprayed like a fine mist, getting uniform coverage was extremely difficult. So I kept having to lay down thin coats. Looks great from a distance.
On close inspection though....holy shit. It looks like sandable primer. Micro globules all over. I’d say it’s rough or fuzzy to the touch, orange peel I guess. I also feel that I am going to have to sand this as well it get it even? Before you say I laid down too many coats, getting even coverage was hard, so the 6-8 coats were needed. IDK if this is how this stuff is supposed to go on or what, or if I sprayed at too far a distance. Gonna let it cure for couple days and see how bad it is.
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Quoted from HoakyPoaky:So I started painting the head with the Molotov satin paints today. In the garage, 70-75 degrees. Surface horizontal, sanded smooth to 400g, wiped with tack cloth to remove dust. Thin light coats, wait 4 mins, reshake can, spray lightly again. Did this around 6-8 a side, depending on coverage.
Well let me just say this is the oddest paint I’ve ever used. It does not spray on wet. It is best described as a mist or cloud. It’s almost like laying down fine layers of powder. Used 4 cans today with the stock wide nozzles & they all sprayed the same.
Will will say that the paints are full of pigment. Very vibrant yellow. But since it sprayed like a fine mist, getting uniform coverage was extremely difficult. So I kept having to lay down thin coats. Looks great from a distance.
On close inspection though....holy shit. It looks like sandable primer. Micro globules all over. I’d say it’s rough or fuzzy to the touch, orange peel I guess. I also feel that I am going to have to sand this as well it get it even? Before you say I laid down too many coats, getting even coverage was hard, so the 6-8 coats were needed. IDK if this is how this stuff is supposed to go on or what, or if I sprayed at too far a distance. Gonna let it cure for couple days and see how bad it is.
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Definitely shouldn't look like that! I'm guessing that if everything was at the same temperature you might have sprayed from too great a distance. Really sorry to see you hit a tough spot. Probably best to practice some more on scrap material before trying again. I'm afraid that, yes, there's some more sanding in your future.
Everything was at the same temp. The cabinet, paint & garage air were all at 70 degrees. If I sprayed closer than the 6-9 inches I was spraying, then there’s no way I could lay down a thin coat. Not sure if wet sanding with 1500-2500 grit is a option here or if I should just sand it all off & retry.
Yeah, closer in, but move faster. What I've seen, they're low pressure cans, so it should be easier to control even really close in.
Prime some scrap material with the same base primer and practice on those until you get the feel for it. 1500-2500 grit is too smooth. It will take too long and might be too smooth. You need tooth for the paint to bond to. I'd try something in the neighborhood of 320-400. I generally don't use anything finer than 600 for final prep work and even that might be overkill.
I meant trying to wet sand this coat to save it, but I guess I’ll just sand it back down with 320g & attempt again.
So how close are you supposed to spray with these cans? 3 inches?
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:I meant trying to wet sand this coat to save it, but I guess I’ll just sand it back down with 320g & attempt again.
So how close are you supposed to spray with these cans? 3 inches?
You can get fairly close. The closer you are, the faster you want to move to avoid runs. I'd practice on something. Experiment with different speeds and distances to find what works for your substrate and painting environment.
Well I sanded down all the sides I painted with 320g and removed the orange peel. So it’s smooth now. It’s funny tho. After sanding the bottom & side looks pretty good, but the back doesn’t have good coverage at all.
Since I’ve gotten it smooth, and the fact I’m going to see laying down the same paint again, I don’t think I’m going to take it back down to wood & reprime. What would be the point of that? 2 more coats and I’ll be done I think.
But of course it’s 92 so no painting today. I ordered some fat spray tips so I think I’ll just wait for those to arrive. Might get wider coverage when spraying.
I need to spray the chime box mounting board, so I’ll experiment with that first
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While waiting for fatter tips for the spray paint to arrive, started rebuilding the chime box. More tumbling & polishing.
After debating, I decided just to repaint the front of light board in the backbox with gloss white. I didn’t feel like pulling every socket & rewiring the back. More trouble than it’s worth.
I am going to upgrade to LED displays tho. Not sure which brand yet, but I’ll either go with red gels or just plain white. I don’t think 7 digit displays are necessary on Mata Hari though.
BEC40021-7B18-4157-AE68-97A8EEEA98E7 (resized).jpeg3CF1407A-77F4-4616-B853-FE64B5746964 (resized).jpeg3D679E04-126E-4787-8D98-0F6757E40420 (resized).jpeg4B131BAF-28AA-4C73-A215-EE2FDCE177C8 (resized).jpeg7003DB71-B4A1-4073-A556-1B36F97F1C6D (resized).jpegQuoted from HoakyPoaky:I don’t think 7 digit displays are necessary on Mata Hari though.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Agree 100%. That 7th digit would just be mocking the player most of the time.
I would get the white with the filters as you have more options. I like the Pinitech displays and they have consistently improved their product. Things like getting the comma right and adding filters so the displays look more natural when they are off are small things that make a big difference IMO.
Yeah I bought a set of 6 digit Pinitech UNO set last night. White LEDs with red, magenta & yellow inserts. Going to experiment & see what looks best.
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:Yeah I bought a set of 6 digit Pinitech UNO set last night. White LEDs with red, magenta & yellow inserts. Going to experiment & see what looks best.
When conducting your tests, apply 2 or all 3 colors at once. Some nice mixes can be achieved, see Pinitech's website for the Seawitch example pic.
Quoted from LynnInDenver:Yeah, closer in, but move faster. What I've seen, they're low pressure cans, so it should be easier to control even really close in.
It’s low pressure so needs to be sprayed closer... there are some YouTube videos showing how it’s sprayed... definitely different than other high pressure paints.
Quoted from Dono:It’s low pressure so needs to be sprayed closer... there are some YouTube videos showing how it’s sprayed... definitely different than other high pressure paints.
Here is one:
Well MUCH better results today, but not how I had planned.
I waited for more Molotow cans to arrive, along with an assortment of fat caps, which sprayed up to 3 inch & 6 inch cones. Did some test sprays with the fat caps. Not only did the paint come out wider & heavier, but I went through half a can in about 30 seconds. These fat caps just puke paint from the can. Glad I did the test sprays.
So I just used the stock caps & adjusted my technique. I wasn’t worried about spraying slightly thicker coats since my surfaces were horizontal. Zero chance of runs. So I got close (3 inches), held a flashlight in my left hand, fully depressed nozzle, and made my sweeps across the surface. The flashlight reflection helped me to see where the wet paint was, so I didn’t miss an area. I could adjust the amount of paint by how fast I sweeped the can.
This worked great with these low-pressure cans. I imagine if I used this technique with rustoluem 2x cans the result would be way too thick. I’m really liking this paint now that I know how to use it correctly.
Timer was set for 7 minutes between coats, then like 2-3 mins of can shaking. Then check to be sure the layer was dry to touch before spraying another. 3 coats for a side & I was done. Made sure to spray along the edges as well.
Almost done with the head base coats, but I’m happy now that I know what I’m doing.
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Quoted from HoakyPoaky:Well MUCH better results today, but not how I had planned.
I waited for more Molotow cans to arrive, along with an assortment of fat caps, which sprayed up to 3 inch & 6 inch cones. Did some test sprays with the fat caps. Not only did the paint come out wider & heavier, but I went through half a can in about 30 seconds. These fat caps just puke paint from the can. Glad I did the test sprays.
So I just used the stock caps & adjusted my technique. I wasn’t worried about spraying slightly thicker coats since my surfaces were horizontal. Zero chance of runs. So I got close (3 inches), held a flashlight in my left hand, fully depressed nozzle, and made my sweeps across the surface. The flashlight reflection helped me to see where the wet paint was, so I didn’t miss an area. I could adjust the amount of paint by how fast I sweeped the can.
This worked great with these low-pressure cans. I imagine if I used this technique with rustoluem 2x cans the result would be way too thick. I’m really liking this paint now that I know how to use it correctly.
Timer was set for 7 minutes between coats, then like 2-3 mins of can shaking. Then check to be sure the layer was dry to touch before spraying another. 3 coats for a side & I was done. Made sure to spray along the edges as well.
Almost done with the head base coats, but I’m happy now that I know what I’m doing.
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Glad you were able to change your technique to match the low pressure paints... yeah the fat cap spews some serious paint, not sure but I probably will be using the stock cap. I'm right behind you - head stripped, stripping the cab now. Then on to priming/painting, and then applying Pimp's stencil to finish it off.
Well the head is base coat is finished, although I forgot to take a photo. Onto the cabinet, one horizontal side at a time. I think I laid down 4 coats on this side today. Doing the inside as well as I go.
E589F37E-0516-4C12-BE96-C6C35E7F8804 (resized).jpeg5CEE10E6-7490-44AC-AB48-DFA0CE827655 (resized).jpeg90A24473-7106-4EFF-A842-350DB5CF80E2 (resized).jpegLooking good... looking forward to seeing how the red and black lay down on your cabinet...
I just did the black on the left side of the head this morning. It was hot and muggy here in Maryland, high of 88, with 85% humidity (nasty!!!); probably a bad idea to paint outside, since there were some areas where the stencil adhesive stuck to the cabinet as I slowly pulled the stencil material away. Not good; it was a bitch to clean up that mess and not screw up the existing work.
Hoping your next colors go on smooth and bright, without issue!!!
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:Look what arrived today[quoted image]
She's a looker!!
Quoted from QuietEarp:current play field
I see two wear marks near slings. Why not touch up and mylar that? Are the sunken inserts super bad? Help us understand what's up.
-mof
I want the experience of installing a hardtop on my MH, before I decide to install one on my Taxi. I think it’s an awesome product & much easier than touchup/clearcoat work. I’ve seen too many lousy clearcoat jobs go wrong when it’s not applied properly, and that’s not something I want to tackle right now. So while a hardtop may not work for some people, it’s a great option for me.
So I finished the yellow base coat & neck a couple days ago...
EE7928CC-E602-4A57-8083-61106E08E62D (resized).jpeg7AD40147-10D0-4884-AE8F-7020AD1C4ACD (resized).jpegBBD57F94-FEF3-4D9A-9FC6-C15ACCDFEBF3 (resized).jpegBEFC3551-AB96-4261-B450-3B378A8F3A82 (resized).jpegD64DC8CF-B282-43FD-B814-243F73756356 (resized).jpeg11EE01D3-A754-4C50-A2EB-8B3F9A0B271A (resized).jpeg4D0C45AF-590B-4A5C-97DB-A438C1F65AE4 (resized).jpegAnd today I began the stencil work. Only about 60 degrees here today, it made a huge difference. These Molotov paints didn’t dry too fast. 3 light coats a minute apart & then I pulled up the stencil. I’ll have to look closer tomorrow when the layer has cured, but I don’t think I applied too much paint. The raised edges seem minimal to me. And I got pretty nice coverage with this red paint. Pops nicely.
I will say that there’s a learning curve with the stencils. I masked off my areas first, which made it harder to lay the stencil down along the edge of the head. Next time I’ll put the stencil down, then mask off the overspray areas. I’m not sure if the right head stencil is 100% straight, because I got some rippling along one of the edges. I think the black layer will conceal it, but I’m not sure yet.
I was going to paint all red layer stencils first on the cabinet & head, then do the black layer. I guess I’m just debating if I should just complete each side of all layers first. It’s already masked off for overspray, so it would be easy to just apply the black layer now.
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Quoted from HoakyPoaky:stencil work
Get someone to video you for the final parts here man, it's time for you to put on a clinic for us who haven't done this yet.
-mof
So this will be a big weekend. 70 degrees, perfect painting weather. Started with the cabinet stencils today.
The application of the stencils was pretty straight forward. Just followed Pinball Pimp’s YouTube video. I thought the large stencil would be tough to manage, but I didn’t get any winkles & it laid down straight. Made sure to mask off the overspray areas & edges.
Cabinet painting was more stressful than the head though. I did my 3 one minute coats & started peeling up the decal, using gloves to avoid making a mess. It was actually 3 individual stencils that needed to be pulled up, so I highly suggest you plan out how you are going to lift it up, from which direction to make it easier, etc. However the small details of the stencil was harder to pull up or started tearing. I was upset that a smudged a few small areas, but I think I can touch it up. The thought of doing the black layer with all the small details worries me. Having an exacto knife to help lift the small areas helped though.
I think I put down a little too much paint in some areas. I’ll see if I have raised edges tomorrow. But overall today was a success. Tomorrow is the other red side of cabinet & first attempt at a black layer on the head.
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Well I almost just had a heart attack. I thought I would spray some of the Molotov paint into a cup & do a little touch up test. While standing closely next to the cabinet, i heard a drop of paint hit the floor & within seconds all the paint was pouring from the cup. Luckily none got on the cabinet, but if I was leaning over it, it would have been a DEFCON 1 disaster.
So I’ll chalk this one up to inexperience & stupidity. Paint must have reacted with the solo cup. Phew! I’m having a beer now to decompress.
145BDFCE-2726-4B63-8DAD-AD0218F23686 (resized).jpeg6960F4CD-821E-4358-AD3E-8AAE05D0E74D (resized).jpegMore progress today. Happy to report no mishaps this time. I was more careful pulling up the stencils. 3 coats once again. The first two are light & then a final coat to make sure the surface is completely wet, reflective & smooth. The registration X’s worked perfectly. I’ve had no major paint tearing when pulling the stencil up, which tells me I’m not laying it on too thick & it’s not drying too fast. I feel like 60 degrees is the perfect temp. If I was doing this when my garage was 90+ degrees this summer, I think I’d be having way more issues.
The black layer on the head came out really nice. The final payoff is going to feel very rewarding 
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I guess I forgot to take photos when laying down the stencil on the front of the cabinet. This was more difficult than I expected, due to the hole in the center. I was worried I was going to get it off center when laying it down, but it came out fine.
If you look closely, you can see the slight edges of the red layer under the black. I don’t know if this is unavoidable when using these stencils, or if the paint was too thick, or if I missed a step. It doesn’t bother me at all, but if the solution is to wetsand those edges before proceeding to the next layer, there’s no way I’d be confident to attempt that.
Just the black sides of the cabinet to go & then I’m done painting. I’m not going to spray with semi-gloss varnish. I’m too afraid I’ll mess up all the work I’ve already done. I just hope these paints hold up over time.
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Perth - West Aus
That's looking great Hoaky! Well done. I love following restore threads and watching a pin coming back all shiny.
Your 'almost' paint disaster incident gave me a good laugh
Just one more side to go. This layer was pretty tough tho. I focused on removing the stencil on the girl first. As I continued on, I could really tell the paint was drying quickly. You want to move quickly but you don’t want to make a mistake either. Just so many small details where the stencil tears, and then you need to use an exacto knife to carefully get the stencil to lift, without cutting into the paint layer below. I was sweating due to the stress, and didn’t want to drip on the wet paint. But I think it came out very well.
4A137526-D89E-4AE3-8D8C-DA2A20F9DCC6 (resized).jpegB4C1F1B6-2600-45D0-9E1A-CFE9BB540015 (resized).jpeg8BF9C03B-5581-47D5-A7C2-F9FB99D9B741 (resized).jpeg3468B03B-B3C4-43AE-BA90-5C48AFE345DE (resized).jpeg01892C8C-FE6D-4C84-828A-DBB26F18EA95 (resized).jpeg2803071C-59A1-4444-BAA5-2382656DA22B (resized).jpegFEE65E12-42DD-4D54-8562-DC90968BD5AB (resized).jpegQuoted from HoakyPoaky:Just one more side to go. This layer was pretty tough tho. I focused on removing the stencil on the girl first. As I continued on, I could really tell the paint was drying quickly. You want to move quickly but you don’t want to make a mistake either. Just so many small details where the stencil tears, and then you need to use an exacto knife to carefully get the stencil to lift, without cutting into the paint layer below. I was sweating due to the stress, and didn’t want to drip on the wet paint. But I think it came out very well.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Man those edges are crisp as hell! 
I'm hoping someone will comment (like @pinheadpierre) on my raised edges & solutions to eliminating them. I'm referring to the edges the green arrows are pointing to in this photo. This is the raised edge of the red layer, that is still visible when the black layer is put on top of it.
Do people wet sand these edges down before proceeding to the next stencil layer, or is this just a result of using these vinyl stencils? I suppose I could have used less paint, but that's tricky IMO if you're trying to get good coverage. These layers are only raised less than a millimeter, so it not really that big a deal.
I'm just wondering if there's a step I missed. In any case I am satisfied with the result, and I also like the satin sheen of these Molotow paints, as opposed to the glossy look of the Rustoleum 2x paints.
I suppose a final layer of semi-gloss spray varnish would help to protect it, but that's more work & god forbid if I screw up that final layer. IDK
edges (resized).jpegQuoted from HoakyPoaky:Do people wet sand these edges down before proceeding to the next stencil layer
That is what I do, carefully knock them down with light sanding. HEP discusses this phenomenon in his topic around the following post:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/22#post-4687367
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