Well I am finally getting around to doing my first playfield swap! Ironically I have restored several cabinets, just never tackled a playfield - well - there's a first time for everything. Wish me luck! I'm sure I'll be asking for tips along the way. Here's the first starter pics:
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Well I knew it wouldn't take long before I had some questions. I tried searching with no luck - so here goes?
1 - What size and type of screws are used to attach the wooden playfield rails to the playfield from the bottom? Believe it or not - EVERY single one of the ones holding the rails in this playfield are gone....
2 - What size screws are used on the flipper and coil brackets? I am talking about the small black ones that attach the coil stop to the flipper bracket. Mine has several that are broken and need to be replaced.
3 - What is the best way to repair this wood damage on the rail for the shooter lane. I don't mind bondoing it - just wondering how it will hold up?
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4 - What is the best way to attach the metal, ball guides to the wood rails as seen in the pics below? They look like they use some kind of nails. Should I try reusing the current ones or are they readily available?IMG_0474.JPG

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Thanks!

One more - original bulbs were #47 I believe. I have been replacing them with new #44s for this playfield swap. Given the home use environment and the fact this will not be on for hours and hours at a time - is there an issue with that or should I stick with the #47s? Thanks as always.

Thanks - I was hoping someone would have the actually size of the rails screws so I don't have to buy a bunch and guess. Don't want to take a chance of screwing it up.

I also want to remove the stainless from the rails so it can be properly restored. I have to wetsand a bunch and then buff to get the ball trails out - and I don't want to leave it attached to the wood. Just not sure I'll be able to reuse the screw nails that hold it on to the rail and I don't think they make replacements...

One thing I have noticed on this playfield already is there are at least a couple of holes that need to be drilled in the top that did not not get marked, dimpled, or drilled. Going to definitely have to take my time with those...

Vid - Any issue with 44s under the inserts and 47s for GI?

Thanks Vid - I'll have to give that some thought. Since I don't ever leave my games on without me being there - it's probably less of an issue - but I still may change them just for insurance.

The screws that hold the playfield rails in are #6 x 1" for any that are looking. Took them to the local hardware store today to match them.

Still not sure about installing the t-nuts. I have seen the threads of the tools out there to draw them in, but does anyone have a parts list to make one? I walked the aisles of my local Lowes and HD for what seemed like forever and couldn't find anything.

Also - I have read a lot of threads that say that a hammer is just fine to pop them in - but no general consensus. If I do end up using a hammer - is there any issue with setting them in while the playfield is on the rotisserie - or will that flex it too much.

Finally - a color question - is the color of the rails - supposed to be the same color as the red on the cab?

Thanks Ken! I bought the 1" screws because that is what came out of the rails of my SI - so I assumed the would be the same. I actually just removed the rails today and noticed exactly what you said - they were drilled for screws, but the rails had NO screw holes in them - just staple holes...

What is the general recommendation for putting them back on?? Re-Staple, screw only, or screw and staple?

Thanks Ken. Makes sense to me. Appreciate the assist!

Clear has only been dry for about a week so I really don't want to put it between towels. Been trying to do as much to the underside of the PF as possible while letting it cure. I know it won't be fully cured for another 60-90 days but I should be able to assembly just about everything on the underside at a minimum. Problem is that I need the T-nuts in for some of the stuff from the top and it is the easiest to install them now - as opposed to when there is a lot in the way underneath - if that makes sense.

Understood. Learned a lot of lessons the hard way in my time as well. That said - I also don't intend on putting it in the corner for the next three months and coming back to it. I would like to get as much populated - as safely as I can - with the time I have. I work a lot - and time off is fleeting - so I have to maximize what I can.

Trust me - I don't do anything half-assed - and I am retentive beyond belief. That's probably the reasons for all of the questions. That said - why shouldn't I hammer the t-nuts in while on the rotisserie. Don't take this the wrong way - I want advice - which is why I am asking - but I am a technical guy - looking for a somewhat technical - logical answer. I have inserted a lot of t-nuts and you don't use a lot of force to set them. I was just wondering if someone had tried it that way and what the downside might be.

Again - I absolutely do appreciate all of the insight. I learn more everyday from this forum!

Not a bad idea! I hadn't thought of that. Maybe I'll start documenting with video now. Got to find my camcorder now! Could use my phone but not enough space and difficult to mount on tripod.

Skins - I didn't take it that way at all and I value your experience. Ironically - I took your advice and started working on other stuff. There are just way too many other things to do to rush to get to the PF while the clear is still curing. I appreciate the advice.

I ended up pulling the rails, sanding and priming them, and now they will be ready for sanding, paint, and clear. The rails are the same color red as the cab - correct? I have to take the cab in this week to the paint shop to get the colors matched. Under the side rail on the cab is still good so I should be able to get a good match.

I also pulled one of the ball guides and went to town on it. Took forever to get the ball trail out of the stainless and then get it sanded smooth and then buffed. One down - one to go...Also polished the wire ball guide. It was in pretty good shape though. Pics below:
Before:
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After
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Also - how do you get the pin out of the ball stop. Pic here:
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Thanks again for all the help!

Thanks Mike - Looks like that's the plan! Thanks again.

Pretty sure they are stainless. As a matter of fact - now that it's done - pretty positive it's stainless.
1 - Had to sand the ball trail out. Started with 400 grit, but ended up going down to 320 to get the trail out.
2 - Sand with 600, then 1200, then with 2000 grit. Scratches should get smaller and smaller and blend together well.
3 - Polish using black compound and then green compound on a harbor freight buffing wheel. it came out very nice if I do say so myself

Got the one I am currently working on for $285 with a perfect backglass. Not working but complete machine. Very good candidate.

3/8 by 3/8 are the factory staples. You can find them on Amazon. Pneumatic staple gun with a long nose is what you want to use. Pinrestore.com carries them. Well worth the price!

Thanks! I was able to actually remove the nails in one piece and will be polishing them and re-using them. Hopefully they still hold well. If I have to - I'll add a bit of adhesive between the stainless and rail.
I absolutely love the pneumatic stapler. It is without question one of the best tools I have purchased for the hobby. Made redoing the backbox insert a snap! And that was a LOT of staples....

Does anyone make a repro eject protector like in the pics below. Might just have this rechromed with the rest I need to have done. But wanted to see if they were available.
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Great, thanks!

What about putting one of those eject protectors on the other side of the shooter rail. The corner of that wood just outside of the eject hole takes a beating. Might have to try that...

A couple of Tee-Nut questions:
1 - Does anyone have a parts list for a T-Nut tool and/or if anyone here is making and selling them?
2 - I purchased new T-Nuts for this project (6/32 and 8/32) and though they fit just fine into the playfield holes and the screw sizes are perfect, the flange on the new ones is smaller than the flange on the originals. Is that normal/ok, and if not, where can I find the t-nuts with the original sized flanges?

Thanks everyone!

You're talking about screw size and that is correct. The ones primarily used are 6/32 and 8/32. But what I am talking about is the fact that the new 8/32 tee nuts are smaller physically than the old ones. Yes, they work because the screw hole is the same, but the flange on the old ones is larger than the new ones. My question is - is that normal and did they just change size over the years or are the original flange sizes available?

Here's a pic for comparison. Both of these are 8/32. And with respect to the tool I am talking about the home made ones several people have made on the forums. I just don't know what parts they used to make one and would like to make one instead of hammering on mine.
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Thanks Vid. Now, other than originality, does it matter if you use the smaller base? Is it weaker or anything?

Thanks! Just the info I was looking for.

Making some progress. Made the tool to insert T-nuts and it works like a champ. But I was hoping to get the answer to the above question - does it matter if the t-nut used has a smaller sizes flange than the original?

Also, installing the metal ball guides and was wondering if there was a general height they should be at. I don't want to push them down too much. Here's a pic of where they're at now - but I assume there was a standard height they should be at.

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One more question (I am sure there will be many more) - I noticed that there are a few holes that CPR never drilled fro some reason. One is for a post as seen in pic below. The CPR Playfield has no hole for this one at all. Just trying to confirm this is a factory location before I drill into the CPR Playfield. Thanks.
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Thanks Vid - any thoughts on the T-Nut question?

Thanks. This is a new playfield so there were no previous t-nuts or holes. I am making them with the new ones. Just debating on whether to order the exact ones that came out or go with the replacements. Ironically, because the new ones have a smaller flange, they would interfere with less stuff under the playfield - though the original ones didn't either Probably over thinking this, but want it to be as perfect as possible.

Thanks Vid - that was my thought as well.

Here are some progress pics for tonight. A little slow going because each hole/dimple has to be drilled out. A couple of holes needed to be drilled for the first time because they were left off altogether in the CPR repro. Not a huge deal. Just had to take my time and do it right.

Also - what are these nails for under the slings? There are no holes for them in the repro. Are they required, and what is their purpose
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Progress:
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Thanks Ken. I also noticed that the manual calls for 6 of the 2 1/2" rubbers but there are only four shown in the diagram in the manual. The result is that I have seen many pictures of various machines with double up rubbers on some of the posts. It's never the same posts either...

So anyone have any idea where the other two of those rubbers should actually go?

Thanks! Sure did. Appreciate it.

Awesome, thanks!

Went to install the newly refreshed saucer kicker assembly and it doesn't fit. It looks like the hole for the actual kicker arm is about 2-3 cm smaller than the original - pics below. Any ideas on the best way to fix this? Not sure I want to go filing the hole bigger. And if I do, it will be noticeable because it will be the only part that isn't cleared. Thoughts on how to fix?

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Looking to work on this today. Hoping someone has some ideas. Thanks!

Bump - Any thoughts?

1 - Yes, that is one issue, but a minor one. Like several of the holes I have found so far in this repro PF, they are a little off. But that's not the issue. I can just drill the holes where they need to be.
2 - Yes - it's actually the small little notch for the kicker that is physically smaller than the original - by about 2-3mm - which is just enough to cause the kicker to hit the back and not move freely.
3 - Pretty sure it's the right one. There is only one extra hole in the original (3 holes vice 2). The other two holes in that pic are for the switch.

Yes, sorry, 2-3 mm. You can't shift the assembly at all. Because of the way it fits in there, the two pointed "ball holders" for lack of a better term, push all the way against that back of the hole. So you really cannot adjust it in any direction.

This is exactly the issue. And that's the idea I was thinking about. Actually filing the hole at an angle where the ejector comes up so that most of the material removed is on the underside of the PF.

Also, I am going to try grinding down the back (flat) edges of those tangs as you mentioned as well. Hopefully I'll be able to get this to fit right. Thanks again for all of the help!

Painted the playfield wood rails today. They came out really nice. I used automotive paint and sprayer. The questio now is - should I clear them? I do intend on clearing the cab when done, but is it overkill to clear the playfield rails?

I have to send some thinks in to Mike to get plated and I am debating on whether or not to send the coil brackets for the pops and slings in to be done as well. I tumbled them and they came out pretty good but still have some blemishes because of the rust taking the finish off. Afraid they might rust if I don't get them replayed or paint them. Thoughts? Also, if I do decide to replate them, I am worried the Cool stop thickness will then be too thick for the cool. Am I overthinking this?

Here are pics of one of them.
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Thanks Vid and Joy. Appreciate the info.

The tumbler took all of the rust off so now it is just a question of coating. The pic makes it look like rust but it really is the metal difference of the coated versus now, non-coated. Still have not made up my mind. Since this my first FULL restoration and not just the cab, I am trying to use it as a learning experience while at the same time achieving the best results I can. Also - not to sound like too much of a tree hugger, but aside from the added cost, I really am a fan of fixing/reusing parts when I can as opposed to buying brand new ones. So I am leaning towards reusing these brackets. That said - shining everyone of these screws so far has been a bear

I wish I had an ultrasonic like yours! My Harbor Freight model does pretty good, and if I leave them in the tumbler after words for a few hours, most come out very nice. Several though have to be hand buffed. But you are correct, I am buffing the heads, not the whole screw

Definitely need to buy me a nice US cleaner. Maybe after Christmas...

Yep - I definitely do that when I can though with the hundred small screws, tumbling them is easier - of course then you get to use a pick to get the walnuts out of the heads...

A little progress.
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Thanks - that was definitely a pain trying to get it to match - and though I am not sure it is 100% - it is DAMN close - certainly close enough that it will look very nice in the machine - and I am retentive as you know what!

I actually didn't paint it but had it powder coated. I can get the color name/code for you in case you want to have it done by your powder coater.

Here is another pic with the SI apron - I am actually not using decals, they are both getting sent out to be screened.

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Rich at this old game does them. I have several I'll be sending in myself - Xenon, FG, SI, and a couple of Mata Hari's. He's not on the forums anymore if I remember correctly but you can get his email off of his website "This Old Game".

I am having them powder coated locally and then sending them to him to screen.

Hey guys - a question on re-plating the drop target banks. My drop target banks - like many I have seen - had some corrosion on them. I took one apart, ran it through my large tumbler with abrasive media, and then through the tumbler again with walnuts to polish. The result is that the corrosion is completely gone, but where there was corrosion, there is now just an empty finish. So nothing is protected. My question is - should I send these pieces out to get plated? I am sending other stuff to get chromed, etc - but I wasn't sure about sending these out because there are so many pieces (about 10-12). I don't want to have it plated while assembled because the screws would end up getting plated in place. I could also prime/paint the pieces with spray paint, but not sure that finish will last - especially with the constant up and down of the targets. Or finally - I could leave it alone - in a home use environment - it should be fine - but I am concerned that moisture would eventually make them rust again. Also have the same question with respect to the flipper brackets. Pics below. Thanks for your time!
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Thanks. I actually started doing that as well. And while you can't argue with the results, it's A LOT of labor. Think I'm going to send them to Mike

Great idea. And I think that's what thus probably originally were. Have to see if Mike does that as well because he does several different kinds of plating. I don't have the capability to do it myself.

I have checked around for plating and there really isn't anything local that is not big volume. A couple of places I've checked but they won't do small stuff.

Thanks - I definitely appreciate the help, but I did try the Google thing and came up with similar results as you. You are correct - there are a couple that would do the work - but they are cost prohibitive. For example - one guy wants $45-50 for a cell phone sized piece. I have about 12 of those just in one drop bank. I have had plating done in other areas of the country where I've lived and usually for the smaller pieces it's a flat fee for smaller pieces based on what will fit in a basket/rack/etc.

Think I'll take my chances and ship them to Mike. He has a great reputation and I am sure he'll be reasonable. Flat rate shipping doesn't add a lot - especially when I am shipping multiple pieces.

Thanks guys, he issue isn't just appearance. It's that I want the restoration to last. the drops had some corrosion - which was removed. But no amount of polishing is going to make them uniform unless they are sanded even first - or plated. I do of course want them to work right, but I also don't want them editing a year after I get hem installs because I shined them and nothing else. You can shine all you want, but much of that shining comes as a result of removing the original plating. That's ok as long as you clear it or protect it somehow. If not, your nice shiny drop bank could be rusting in no time a depending on your environment.

I am actually now looking at the home nickel playing kits. Some of them get pretty good reviews. I'll still send the big stuff out to be done, but for the smaller stuff - it might be more cost effective to do myself.

Slow going waiting to nickel plate some parts with the new Caswell kit. Great results though.
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Though slow - there has been progress. Only a handful things left to do for the playfield - then I'll get crackin on the cab. Anyone know the best place to get the pop bumper switch spoons? A couple of mine have holes. Pics of the progress:
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In your picture, the One marked C is actually the one connected to the power rail as it should be, not ground. Also, including the power rail, there are two connections that need to be made. The wires should not be connected together - correct? In other words, a and c are connected to each other in these and if I meter them, it's a single connection. If I connect as you indicated above, the wires are essentially connected together, does that make sense?

Thanks Vid - I'll have to check them out!

Nope - not lime green - more of a mustardy yellow with a slight green tinge. I only know because I went back and forth matching the color with the powder coater quite a bit. The picture shows it more yellow than it really is - but at the same time - it is certainly not a perfect match to the original. Close - but not a match. It does, however, look realy nice against the playfield and will look great when powder coated.

Thanks Eric!! I metered them with a daggum bulb in there initially *%$! Oh well - just more chances to excel at soldering! And with the Hakko desoldering gun - it will be quick work! Thanks for the backup guys!

Finally getting this playfield finished up - work has been crazy. Looks like I am missing a couple of the small screws that hold the leaf switches to the brackets. Any one know what size those are?

That's exactly what I am looking for - thanks!