Hey everyone! I'm so excited I have my own first pin! It's a Gotlieb pioneer... and it's broken. I knew it was when I bought it. But I have hope for it. Plus I like the though of preserving it. So here is the deal with it. When I turn it on the back glass lights come on but playfield lights do not. Also I hear and see a spinning platform just spinning around under the playfield. I'm guessing it would be something that would trigger the game to reset? Because it also does not start. I'll make a short video if that helps to show the problem in the morning. Where should I start? Thanks everyone

#2 7 years ago

WEN

jrpinball

Pinside+ Addict

10y 115K 10,722

Do the score reels reset to zero?

#3 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,387 85 122 1

Do you have schematics? If not order some from pbresource.com (along with some new rubbers, probably)

#4 7 years ago

WRD

way2wyrd

History Of Pinball

Fort Worth, TX

13y 116K 4,917 21 12

Pinrepair.com is your source

-Jeff

#5 7 years ago

MCE_LLC

Inactive member

8y 28,400 35 3

I'm working on my first EM which makes me an *ahem* expert. My suggestion is to put the playfield up into the service position (http://homepinballrepair.com/pinballopencabinet.html) and leave it there. You'll be spending most of your time with your head stuck down in the cabinet or backbox anyway.

#6 7 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member

9y 105K 6,825

OP
Quoted from Jartog:
When I turn it on the back glass lights come on but playfield lights do not.

That's correct, I believe the hold relay should engage those once it pulls in at the start of a game. Though lots of games have the lights on constantly which is technically incorrect I think.

OP
Quoted from Jartog:
Also I hear and see a spinning platform just spinning around under the playfield.

That's the score motor spinning endlessly because something in the start path is out of adjustment.

check pinrepair for the basics...don't do anything until you have some understanding. Don't mess with the score motor.

Common issues:

Score reels aren't resetting because they have sludge in them

You don't have any credits on the credit wheel.

Coin door

Start relay

Motor 2C

Motor 2B

Muffler bearings...you get the picture. GOOD LUCK!!!

#7 7 years ago

WEN

jrpinball

Pinside+ Addict

10y 115K 10,722

In order for a game like "Pioneer" to start, some basic things need to take place. Among them are, score reels resetting to zero, and the bonus unit at the home position. What is the general overall condition of the machine, and when was it last working (if you know)? The very first thing to do is to check all the fuses. What is your general technical ability level? Do you know how to use a volt /ohm meter?

#8 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

Wow awesome response! Thanks everyone. I'll start from the beginning
All I did what turn it on. I didn't hit start or anything. What button is start? So no the score did not reset.
I will purchase the schematic
What would be the order of getting it to start if it did work right.
Is there an add credit button?

#9 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

I have repaired arcade cabs before and use volt meter usually just to find continuity.

#10 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,387 85 122 1

The start button is the red button below the coin slots on the door. If the game were working properly, you'd have to deposit a coin, then hit the start button, which would then reset the reels and drop targets. However, since the score motor is turning instantly when you power it up, that means that it's stuck in a 'processing' state, and probably will ignore you putting a coin in or pressing start. Basically, it's most likely that one of the switches that turns the motor on is stuck closed and needs to be adjusted. Once you have the schematics, they will say what relays turn the score motor on, and you can then check which of those relays is actually on, and then find out what relays turn that relay on, etc, etc, until you find the switch.

#11 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

Perfect thanks

#12 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

Here is a link to a video of what it is doing.

#13 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

I wanted to post a link to a video I made of the problem but this site won't let me. I have checked all fuses and noticed one was a 15 amp that should have been a 10 amp so I changed that.

#14 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

ok so here is an update. I cleaned the contacts on AX and it was able to stop the turning score motor. AND I was able to play one game LOL . so now the score counted up and will not reset and the score counter behind the backglass is trying to reset the score but cant on one digit. Now where should I clean.

#15 7 years ago

FUN

fredsmythson

Inactive member

Austin, TX

8y 55,650 1,189 33

I would inspect, clean and adjust all of the contacts on the score reels. Also, manually operate the score reels with the machine powered off... Just press in the plunger on the solenoid/coil of the score reel and see if the reel will easily turn and "click" to the next number position. If the score reel doesn't turn properly, or is sluggish, you'll probably have to take the score reel apart and clean it... The grease that they used at the factory to lube the hub of the score reel can gum up over time and cause problems with the score reel operation...

#16 7 years ago

MCD

dasvis

Pinside member

Salem, OR

12y 101K 4,796 11 16

http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm

#17 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

Cool thanks. I checked the plunger and it did work really well and clicked good. I youtubed the gummed up score reels and I deffinatly don't have that. Do it must be a contact somewhere. Can it possibly be the score motor back there also or no?

#18 7 years ago

FUN

fredsmythson

Inactive member

Austin, TX

8y 55,650 1,189 33

There is only one "score motor" in the machine and it's located on the main board at the bottom of the main cabinet. You might be looking at the player unit in the the backbox. Yes, if the player unit is not operating properly, it can cause scoring and reset issues. You can manually operate the player unit to see if it advances and resets properly...

Not sure where we are at now... Maybe you can power off the machine, and then power it on again. Is the machine in tilt or game over mode? Then try to start a game. What happens when you press the start button?

#19 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,387 85 122 1

Quoted from fredsmythson:
There is only one "score motor" in the machine and it's located on the main board at the bottom of the main cabinet. You might be looking at the player unit in the the backbox. Yes, if the player unit is not operating properly, it can cause scoring and reset issues. You can manually operate the player unit to see if it advances and resets properly...
Not sure where we are at now... Maybe you can power off the machine, and then power it on again. Is the machine in tilt or game over mode? Then try to start a game. What happens when you press the start button?

Do two player machines have player units?

If only that reel isn't firing it's probably the P3A switch, but without a schematic I'm not sure how to describe where that switch is on the score motor

#20 7 years ago

ZZZ

Wickerman2

Pinside member

9y 105K 6,825

OP
Quoted from Jartog:
Now where should I clean.

score reels, clean, adjust...search em tech forum(do them 1 at a time so you can look at the others for assembly...and it's likely your player 1 reel that has issues):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/score-reel-issue

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-score-reels-issue

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-2001-decagon-score-reels-sticking-on-9

If something is running in the back it's probably the mini stepper used for match 00-90 stepper...that'll just be a symptom of your reset issues and not the problem.

video:

2 weeks later

#21 7 years ago

JGB

Jartog

Inactive member

Johnson City, NY

7y 11,650 15 1

Hey everyone UPDATE!
So I was able to get the game to stop turning the score motor by setting the scores manually to 0000 on both players. The game plays fine over and over except the score on P1 doesn't count up though the game play. P2 works and resets but P1 doesnt

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