So I poicked up my Addams Family machine today, and on the way to pick it up, I made a brief stop to trade an old farm engine I had for a 1970 Gottlieb Baseball. It will clean up nice, but has a few issues... I already repaired the loose board on the head unit, and swapped out bulbs with working ones. On Tuesday I'll call PBResource to order a schematic.

In the meantime, maybe you guys can help me get started. When I press the start button, the score motor runs, etc, but the game is stuck on "tilt". As near as I can tell, there are 4 tilt switches on the machine-- slam switches on the coin door and floor, the "ball" switch on the left side of the cabinet, and the pendulum. It appears that the door switch should always be closed, and the other three should always be open-- is that correct? While I'm waiting for the schematic to arrive, is there anyplace else you think I should be looking?

I'll pull the bottom panel and clean and check the switches in the next few days, just hoping I can get it running, however marginally, in the meantime.

Oh-- and how does one remove the backglass on these? Not at all like my Williams or Bally machines!

Thanks for the glass tip. Glad I didn't mess with it

The score motor stops, but no ball kicks out, and it remains in tilt.

That may well be the problem then... headed to the game room now. I'll report back shortly.

Closed it... no change.

Gents-

How the hell do I pull the bottom panel on this machine? It's tied in with the fuse panel, which is forward of the panel. I just don't see a way to do this easily.

Hence why I was trying to pull the bottom panel. Looks like I have to unscrew the fuse panel to get it out.

That occurred to me too... I'd rather not, unless I really need to.

LOL... thought about adding a molex connector for the fuse box.

I'm actually pretty good at soldering, and I don't mind doing it, but that's a lot of stuff to disconnect...

Fooled around a little... I've got it BASICALLY resetting, but without a manual or schematic, I'm not sure what the complete list of what should be happening is (and it still doesn't come out of tilt!)

There are these funky "knockbacks" (there must be a proper name for them) above 1st and 3rd bases. A clean, lube, couple turns to the spring, and gap the switch, and those return to the zero position when the start button is pushed. http://mirror2.ipdb.org/images/185/image-2.jpg

The score reels sort of reset... it usually doesn't come all the way back to zero on the first try, but does zero out on the second try.

There's no playfield illumination, but the backbox is lit up.

This thing is *SO* different than my Williams and Bally machines...

I'm not going to install a molex connector-- there are 25 wires going off the cabinet board to the fuses. I'll just unscrew the fuse board.

I also found some funky replacement wire going from an unlabeled relay in the center of the cabient board (picture is from IPBD, I added the circle) to a ground by the start button. I'll need to look into that further.

image-9.jpg

I haven't gotten around to the reels yet-- they looked a little intimidating! The zero position, I think, is ok... they aren't passing zero-- they aren't GETTING to zero.

Do you know the part # at PBR? I have to call them tomorrow anyway.

No real update, but I did pick up connectors and start cutting the wiring harness. That's just backbreaking work-- bending over in the cabinet to cut, crimp, and solder. Ugh... I'm going to be hurting tomorrow! I finished 16 sets... I'll do the other 8 tomorrow, then pull the bottom panel.

The score reels *DO* seem to be working now. I have them a little workout and let them run a couple of "laps" then I zeroed them out with the start button again. That seems to have cleared whatever dust and grime was holding them up. When I get further along I will probably pull them and clean them properly, but for now I can leave them be.

I tried to call PBR but was unable to get through today... so I'll try again tomorrow. It appears that there isn't a manual for this pin, just a schematic. Does anyone know the order of the startup sequence? I don't even know where to begin.

The score motor runs, the ball unit rotates (credit unit?), the varitargets reset, the score and runs reels reset, the relay just forward of the one I circled last night energizes (this is also unlabeled). What should I be looking for next?

Pinrepair notes:

Gottlieb Latch Relay Problems.
Starting in the early 1960s (maybe first with Flipper Parade), Gottlieb used latch relays for playfield features. They used these up to the 1970s with their Baseball wedgeheads like Playball and Pro Football. These are different than the short stroke Ax/Bx latching relays, in that they use longer switch blades. Unfortunately sometimes this style of latch relay does not reset or "unlatch".

There are two causes for this. First is the contact of the two latch plates is too great. That is, you only need just a little bit of the "lip" to catch and latch. Less lip, and it's easier for the relay to pull the latch plate in, unlatching the relay. To adjust this just bend the latch stops so there's as little plate as possible latching to the two latch plates. This means there's less work the relay has to do to pull in the latch plates, and less chance magnetism will effect the plates.

Does anyone know if this would apply to my machine? Anyone know what the relay I circled last night is? It's not labeled.

Just found this on Mr. Pinball's website. It's not specifically for my machine, but it's of a similar vintage and also a single player wedgehead.

The following information is taken from the March 1972 Gottlieb Flying Carpet manual. This may be helpful when debugging a startup problem with this or other Gottlieb single-player games from the same period.

1. Inserting a coin or pushing the replay button actuates 'S' relay (Start relay).
2. This relay will lock-in through its own switch and a motor 2B switch.
3. 'S' relay starts the motor running.
4. Through a switch that has been closed on 'S' relay, the 'SB' relay, total play meter and reset ball count unit are actuated by switches on motor 1A and motor 2C.
5. The sequence bank is reset by motor 4B switch through 'SB Armature' switch.
6. The control bank is reset by motor 4C switch through 'SB Armature' switch.
7. When 'DB' relay is in a setup position, the motor continues to run and all score units reset to zero through motor 1A, motor 4A, and the reset control switches on 'DB' When all score units are reset to zero and motor 2B switch makes, 'DB' relay is tripped completing the reset cycle.
8. Place the ball in the out hole. When the ball makes the outhole switch, 'O' relay is actuated through a normally closed switch on 'DB'.
9. 'O' relay locks in through its own switch and a switch on motor 2B.
10. When 'O' relay is energized the motor starts running.
11. Motor 4C actuates the ball return coil through a switch on 'O' relay.
12. The ball return kicks the ball across the trough switch which steps the ball count unit once, indicating first ball in play.
13. The ball is now in the runway and ready to be shot onto the playfield.

I'm going to make an assumption that the relay in front of the one I circled last night is the "S" relay, since it's the only relay that pulls in (it only energizes briefly, and releases before the score motor is done), and the score motor runs. What is the "SB" relay? The total play counter does not advance. So it looks like it makes it to step 4 before it hangs up-- does that sound about right?

Too funny... I was typing up my post while you responded, and it's the same link I found.

I found a couple of pictures of insides of this and similar cabinets, and none seem to have those two relays labeled.

Too late for that... I've already cut it up and started adding connectors. What a piss-poor design this wiring is.

It'll be fine

Got a couple of sets of 12 position connectors, and I'm soldering, not crimping. Once I have the schematic in hand, I'll trace each and every one of those and confirm continuity, but given my testing after completing a little more than 1/2 of them last night, I don't think it will be an issue, and if it is, I've got the patience to figure it out.

Would that be the relay I circled, and the one immediately in front of it? Those are the only ones I can find that aren't labeled.

Thanks Dirtflipper. I'm awaiting delivery of the schematic... so I guess I'm stalled until that gets here.

Yup, you're not wrong... but I've got serious back issues, and trying to bend over that far is simply torture. I can cut and solder connectors from a piano stool without having to bend over very much. When I pull the bottom panel, it will go to my 4 foot high workbench, so I don't have to bend over while I work on it

This DOES appear to be a fairly simple game. Hopefully the schematic shows up tonight and I can get to work on whatever ails it.

Ok-- I've got the schematic, and spent the evening at the machine with it. I made no real progress. All of the switches have been cleaned and gapped, except for the relay "bank", which I can't figure out how to access. There's a count unit of some sort in the cabinet, opposite the relay bank that appears to do nothing at all. It's also slathered up in grease, so it may have been a problem point in the past.

When I push the start button it

1) Pulls in the SB relay
2) Pulls in the relay on the bottom of the playfield that resets the vari targets.
3) zeros out the score and home run reels
4) Score motor runs, then stops when the score reels are done.
5) The count unit next to the score motor rotates (it's a continual rotation).

It still appears that I get as far as step 4 on the Mr. Pinball startup list above. That was a whole lot of work pulling the cabinet panel for nothing...

^^^
the "count unit"... are you referring to the "play meter"? it's 1976 machine, so it should have 6 "reels" in it...
or something else?

It's a 1970 machine.

The two "count units" I referenced are circled in these photos (borrowed from IPDB, not of my machine). The one on the left rotates with the score motor when the start button is pushed. The one on the right doesn't do anything at this point.

image-9.jpg image-10.jpg

The one on the left in my photo looks just like the one in your lower picture.

Your top picture is similar, but not exact. I can take a picture later if you'd like. It does have two coils.

Correct. I can step it in both directions manually.

I'll have to take another look at it. I don't recall.

Correct. What's the "ones" reel? Do you mean the score reel?

The ball eject switch you mean? I tried that last night. Nothing. As I also pointed out, there's no playfield power-- only the backbox lights up. What controls the playfield lighting? I have checked, and double checked all 6 (I think it was 6) fuses. There are two on the cabinet board, and 4 just inside the coin door attached to the side of the cabinet.

I think I found something relevant on pinrepair:

The Gottlieb "S" Start Relay.
Almost every Gottlieb EM with a reset bank has an "S" start relay (single and multi-player games.) When this relay gets activated (by pressing the coin door start button), the game goes through its start-up sequence. Generally speaking, here is the start-up sequence:
Press the start button on the coin door. This completes the circuit to the start relay, and causes this relay to pull in and close some switches.
The score motor starts.
The score reels reset to zero through the start relay and the score motor.
Any feature relays or feature banks reset.

The reset bank solenoid pulls in, and resets all the relays in the bank.

The ball is served, and the game can begin.

My reset bank does not pull in. When it pull it in manually, it get a very loud buzz.

I didn't notice that there was another switch. Either way, that switch working would be predicated by the outhole relay working, and it's currently dormant.

I haven't, but I will.