(Topic ID: 58566)

UPDATED: Dirty Harry DMD issue, now with VIDEO showing the problem

By dfsays

10 years ago


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  • 60 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by PinRob
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 60 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 10 years ago

My DMD is acting weird. (I've updated the original post with my updated situation.)

The pin labeled Cathode on the wiring harness feeding the DMD display is reading 113 on the DMM instead of around 75 like the wiki says it should read.

#2 10 years ago

You say it's fuzzy?

Could possibly be the high voltage area on your DMD controller board getting fried...

You know, if a new cable doesn't work.

#3 10 years ago

Replaced the controller board, but the didn't really solve the problem.

And the DMD itself whines/buzzes, like it's getting too much power.

What could cause the problem you mention?

#4 10 years ago

All DMDs seemed to hum a little, but this one is extra loud and gives too much feedback.

#5 10 years ago

Can you get a photo?

#6 10 years ago

A photo of the DMD acting weird? Since I changed the controller board with new from Xpin, it isn't as noticeable.

Now, just random single pixels flicker here and there while every thing else seems okay.

I also had to flip all the dip switches on the board to get the DMD working properly after install.

I'll get a pic when I get home this eve.

#7 10 years ago

It's outgassing then, the voltage most likely was dropping with the old DMD board and the new board bumped it back up to spec making it look better. The root cause is outgassing. You'll need to replace the display.

#8 10 years ago

You the man, thanks. Just looked up outgassing, and that looks like my problem.

Now I just have to decide on replacing it with the same or going with the more expensive red color display. I think that would accent the backglass and DMD cover nicely.

#9 10 years ago

By the way, pixels flicker on in spots where they shouldn't, they don't flicker out.

#10 10 years ago

So, there's this other thing going on that I think might be related.

The shooter lane will attempt to shoot before the ball is in the lane. Then immediately afterwards, it will fire the ball into the lane and THEN shoot it.

This happens primarily during MB about every other time. It rarely happens on ball 2 and/or 3 of a game too.

Could the DMD thing and the shooter lane thing be related? Could it be an MPU issue?

#11 10 years ago

I had a similar issue (See below picture where "Launch Ball" is displayed). I bought a new DMD as it had a line out first but the pic below wasn't happening. Then soon after I was getting the picture below. Got a new Display board and fixed the issue. I did swap DMD's and ribbon from working machine first. The new display power board fixed my issue so kind of odd on yours.

So maybe you can swap ribbon cables but too? But I had all sorts of dots where they shouldn't have been like you're describing.

IMG_3834.jpgIMG_3834.jpg

#12 10 years ago

That is EXACTLY what is happening on my machine.

You say a new DMD controller board fixed your issue? I recently install a brand new Xpin DMD controller board after my DMD went out completely.

When I swapped the DH DMD into my Judge Dredd, the DMD seemed to work, so I figured it must be the board. (Forgot I did that...)

The cable probably could be swapped too, so I'll try that tonight.

The new Xpin board does let the display work, but like I said, I had to flip all four dip switches on the new controller. The instructions seem to imply they improve the scan rate... or something.

#13 10 years ago

That and a new DMD. I did the DMD first as I wasn’t having any issues other than the one line out. Issue came about a few days and games later. But I still have the same DMD cable.

I believe the top one is the correct one but double check with the manual:

http://www.greatplainselectronics.com/Category-52.asp

#14 10 years ago

Before I buy a new DMD, I'll yank the one out of my Judge Dredd and try that (duh!).

Although I want an excuse to get the red DMD display!

#15 10 years ago

Definately do that and the ribbon cable but if the DMD is bad at least you know you have a good reason!

#16 10 years ago

Bad news.

Luckily, I have a Judge Dredd to swap DMD stuff into DH for testing.

Put the good DMD from JD into DH, and still had a problem with ghosting pixels.

Then took the good ribbon cable and hooked that up. Problem still persisted.

DMD hums like it's getting too much juice or something.

So now I'm at a loss. It must be something further up the chain?

There are four lights corresponding over the four dip switches on the new Xpin board. Two and three are solid, number 4 is dark, but the first one is flashing. A light on the CPU is flashing too.

Not sure if that means anything because the Xpin board didn't come with a trouble shooting manual, though I do think it has that capability.

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

#17 10 years ago

Okay, so I have a brand new Xpin DMD controller board installed, a working DMD display, and a working ribbon cable connecting them together... and the problem still is happening.

I have uploaded a video showing what is going on.

The first light on the utility switches is flashing. There's a flashing light on the MPU too. Not sure what either of them mean because the Xpin controller didn't come with a manual.

I pushed the troubleshooting button on the board, but all it does is scan each line on the DMD display.

You can hear the loud buzzing in the video, much louder than my relatively quiet JD display.

The only next step I can think of is replacing the MPU, as I'm pretty inexperienced in the finer points of pinball electronics. My typical approach is replace until the problem goes away lol. But, obviously, that can get expensive.

It worked on the trough issue for my JD though

Please take a look and let me know what you think or if I further video would help with the analysis. Thanks for reading!

(Note, you'll also see that I have to flip the first and fourth utility switch to actually get the display to even work the way that is does. With the factory settings, each flip in the down position, nothing really shows on the display and it instead defaults to the "Xpin" logo.)

(Note 2, I found this on Wiki: "If the voltages are too high, the panel will show sparkles, clouds or ghosting." Maybe this is a voltage issue?)

#19 10 years ago

Have you tried measuring the voltages going to the DMD and compared them to what the wiki says you should be getting?

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from SteveP3:

Have you tried measuring the voltages going to the DMD and compared them to what the wiki says you should be getting?

Bingo.
Please measure the voltages to the display.
The whine/hum you hear is electromagnetic interference from the high frequency display, insinuating itself on the audio system. Does your DMD controller-to-DMD ribbon have a magnetic toroid on it?

Also, make sure the DMD controller is screwed securely to the backbox.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#21 10 years ago

Could you recommend a good tool that I could measure the voltage with, possibly link me to a place I could purchase out from a Pinside sponsor?

I've never had to do anything more complicated than soldering in a new switch.

I'm not sure of the ribbon has a magnetic toroid. How would I be able to tell?

I rarely get weird other happenings, like the machine will act like it is searching for a missing ball, but it only happens during every 20 games or so.

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from dfsays:

Could you recommend a good tool that I could measure the voltage with, possibly link me to a place I could purchase out from a Pinside sponsor?
I've never had to do anything more complicated than soldering in a new switch.
I'm not sure of the ribbon has a magnetic toroid. How would I be able to tell?
I rarely get weird other happenings, like the machine will act like it is searching for a missing ball, but it only happens during every 20 games or so.

You will be able to use a meter for so much other stuff too. PL has this one:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1872

#23 10 years ago

Okay, bought the meter from Pinball Life.

I've been hitting Google for tips on how to use a multimeter on a pinball machine, but any tips or links would be helpful.

#24 10 years ago

Set it to DC volts.
Follow the procedure in the WPC section of the PinWiki for measuring the HV.
That meter isn't an auto-ranging meter, so set it to expect 200VDC when measuring this HV.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#25 10 years ago

Got my DMM in the mail today. However, I'm not sure how to use it lol.

What do I put the setting on, where do I plug in the red and black wire to the DMM, and where should I check on the PCBs?

CAM00350.jpgCAM00350.jpg

#26 10 years ago

Procedure...
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Testing_DMD_Controller_Power

As for the meter...click it counterclockwise two clicks. It is now set for DC voltage, up to 200V.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#27 10 years ago

Follow Chris' advice for the knob setting. Follow the guide he linked to, it is comprehensive.

I wear rubber soled sandals and a sweater when testing to take away any more ground paths (remember, the siderails of the game are grounded; and your arm could be touching it - sweater helps - juuuuust in case you goof up and slip). Note the part in his guide where he mentions keeping one hand in your pocket. Do that.

Regarding where to plug the wires in... read the instructions that came with your meter. Make sure you understand them. I can guess what to do though - but I cannot be held responsible if my advice is incorrect. Please, read the instructions!!!!!

Disclaimer aside, here's a quick rundown. The Black wire will be used in the middle hole (COM), and your red wire goes into the right side hole for the tests you need to do today (VΩmA). Remember to never switch the dial position with the leads connected to what you are testing. Remove them from what you are testing, then change the dial position if you need to test anything else. Then, proceed.

You'll be using that wire setup almost the entire time you're using this meter for pinball. You can test for Voltage (V), Resistance (Ω), Current (mA - up to 200 milli-amps) on the right side red hole. Read the manual before doing anything in case I'm wrong - but that looks pretty similar to a meter I have around here. As for the other functions of your meter... you guessed it - instruction manual!

#28 10 years ago

"SAFETY WARNING: Your left hand should be in your pocket, to avoid a potentially serious shock. We are working with high voltages, so be VERY CAREFUL. Keeping one hand in your pocket is a good practice to follow as it eliminates the easy electric current pathway across your heart. A DMD controller provides enough electric current to kill you!"

Okay, that makes me nervous as hell...

Hopefully, I'll be okay as long as I follow these rules. Will need to stop and pick up some alligator clips today.

What is the best way to ground the DMM? The wiki suggests a couple options.

#29 10 years ago

Put the black lead under the ground braid in the head like the wiki mentions

You may find if you're trying to clip alligator clips onto the headers on the DMD that they are a bit bulky (depending on what type of clips you get); you don't want to end up touching multiple leads at the same time. Just stick the black lead under the ground braid in the head; and use the red lead to gently touch onto the header pins one by one. Work slowly and patiently.

If you're not comfortable doing this, maybe someone local can help you out?

#30 10 years ago

Thanks. I'm okay with doing it. I have a steady hand and these rules seems simple enough.

However, if I don't have an update posted by Monday, call an ambulance

Just to be clear; I'm checking the header pins on the DMD controller board that lead to the DMD display?

#31 10 years ago

You are testing the pins on the actual DMD display itself after you have removed it from the head of the game and set it on top of the playfield glass; as shown in the picture on the wiki. (the one with the guy's hand touching the red lead to the pins). Note that he is testing the pins that come out of the back of the DMD display and are bent at a 90 degree angle.

#32 10 years ago

I didn't think it was that dangerous using a multimeter on a pin..... On an arcade monitor is a whole different story..... I thought.....

#33 10 years ago

I'm not in front of the pin right now, but the pins are exposed enough to get a reading even when the ribbon cable is plugged in, feeding the DMD?

#34 10 years ago

Okay, did the readings with the settings that were suggested.

The anode and offset didn't read anything.
The 5vdc reads 10 and the 12 reads 28.

The last one doesn't seem to read right, it just says 1.

Seem right?

#35 10 years ago

Something's not right there. I'm not sure you've measured right.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#36 10 years ago

I had the DMM clicked twice clockwise, grounded to the braid, and touched all the posts?

#37 10 years ago

Please make sure to read the instructions for your meter.

See what you did below, then see what Chris said to do.

Quoted from dfsays:

I had the DMM clicked twice clockwise, grounded to the braid, and touched all the posts?

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Procedure...

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Testing_DMD_Controller_Power

As for the meter...click it counterclockwise two clicks. It is now set for DC voltage, up to 200V.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#38 10 years ago

some good advice on here, I have a DH so it's useful info......cheers everyone.

#39 10 years ago

Did you turn the dial clockwise, or counterclockwise?

To measure DC voltages, use the settings from about 9 o'clock to the nearly 12 o'clock position, marked V-. These positions can measure, 200 millivolts, 2, 20, 200, and 600 volts. These are "up to" positions. You are trying to measure about 120 volts for this test. It's really -120 volts, but pos/neg for your meter setting doesn't matter. When you set the meter to 200, it can measure up to 200V.

To avoid this hassle, I prefer an auto-ranging meter. But, your meter will work fine once you learn to use it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#40 10 years ago

Figured it out, thanks for sticking with me

All the readings are near the ranges they're supposed to be...

Except the 8th pin labeled Cathode. The wiki says it should read around 62-75, but my DMM is reading 108 to 113, staying mostly around 113.

#41 10 years ago

The owner of Xpin is sending me a replacement DMD controller board after telling him about this issue. He thinks the one I have could be faulty. I'm new to this side of electronics in a pinball and appreciate the opportunity to learn more about repair techniques.

Please see my previous post about the double high reading on the Cathode pin on the display. Should I now measure the male pins on the board itself? Next steps?

#42 10 years ago

Now you just have to wait for the new board and pop it in

Hopefully that does it. I wouldn't bother troubleshooting it any further if it's being replaced.

#43 10 years ago

Bad luck, huh? I have a feeling the problem is coming from somewhere further upstream, but hopefully this tested replacement directly from Xpin does the trick.

#44 10 years ago

Ya...leave it until the replacement arrives.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#45 10 years ago

Installed the NEW controller directly from XPIN and now nothing will display, except for the default XPIN logo. Even that disappears when I flip the fourth dip switch.

I put in the other XPIN controller that I got first, and it still works as detailed above.

Weird!!

#46 10 years ago

I think you might need to research what the fourth dip switch does, on the xpin site it doesn't appear to be related to function.

DMD_Controller_Switch_Settings.jpgDMD_Controller_Switch_Settings.jpg

#47 10 years ago

The Owner told me via email it had something to do with LED displays versus plasma?

We're supposed to talk on the phone about it this weekend. I'll post the results of the conversation.

Something ain't right somewhere...

1 week later
#48 10 years ago

OKAY, I'm back.

Installed the new XPin board last night and it is doing basically the same thing the first board was doing.

Flip switch 1 and the Xpin logo shows nice and clear.

Then add switch 4 and the display works... but it STILL has random extra pixels flicker here and there.

When switch 1 is on and 4 is off, the voltage readings are all within the general area that they're supposed to be... but only the Xpin logo shows.

I forgot to check it when both 1 and 4 are flipped, but with the original board, the 8th pin was reading 110 when it was supposed to be reading 65. I'll check it tonight with both switches flipped.

#49 10 years ago

Sorry I can't be more help, but I don't know a thing about the Xpin boards. If anyone else can help this fella, feel free to chime in!

#50 10 years ago

All I can offer is a working DH to replace it

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