(Topic ID: 239358)

My current take on JJP pinball after TPF....

By iceman44

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Lamprey
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    #30 5 years ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Possibly, or they had a 30 day opening on the line with no parts to build any other game decided to just run WOZ again?

    That does not explain the price

    18
    #43 5 years ago
    Quoted from f3honda4me:

    Yes and no. JJP has to compete in the market. Competition generally drives prices down. At worst prices should remain the same. CGC however, did lower prices.

    Because of the price CGC has turned into Sterns biggest competitor

    #59 5 years ago
    Quoted from bigehrl:

    i’ll never understand how anyone can fault a business for trying to make more money. screw the collectibility. we are buying high-end children’s games, because we love them and enjoy them. if you’re in the hobby because you look at it as an investment, try the stock market. 10+ years ago, there was barely such a thing as limited editions. be grateful that the dying hobby we all stayed loyal to, is now bigger and badder than ever!

    You must be joking people bitch like the sky is falling when Stern makes the annual $200 price increase. A $2000 price increase if something was added but with subtraction

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    #64 5 years ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    It's not rocket science. JJP has been in business since 2011, and since that time have produced <10,000 games among all models. When you factor in your factory, parts, salaries, tooling, legal issues, etc. over that many years and divide it up it doesn't exactly show profit. There are more Fish Tales games produced by Williams in one year in the 90's than all of the JJP games put together over 8 years.

    Facts WOZ sold 4000 TH 2000 sales number drop with every price increase jaws dropped at $8000 than at $8500 $9000 $9500 if the new price is $11,500 JJP goes under

    #111 5 years ago
    Quoted from Zavadoza:

    I don't think we should care about an offshoot model costing a ridiculous price. We didn't get upset about Spiderman Home Edition Supreme (if you did, get an additional hobby). We get it. It's for outsiders. Don't buy it. I prefer my RR and told Jack the price on YBR is high and that POTC should have come with a manual for the price.
    I think what we, as potential buyers of JJP games should look at is on April 12/13th when Willy Wonka is revealed. What will be the price and what will be the features?
    Butch Peel (JJP employee) said last weekend that they won't do something like Pirates again. He kind of backed away from what he was saying, but I took it to mean that JJPOTC was very ambitious and they can't afford another delay. I asked if that meant they won't have all the features and asked him to keep it awesome. I love Pirates. Waiting sucked. Supposedly WW ships within 60 days after reveal.
    Let's see what happens, and save the doom and gloom talk for when the service and build quality from JJP takes a dip. Because it hasn't yet.

    Are you kidding people went apeshit over BK66 Beatles and Supreme they all had bitch threads

    #185 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Ah the old "Stern makes more games so JJP isn't successful" argument, have never understood it. As a customer I don't care if Stern has made 30 games as they still have 1/2 the code, animation quality, code variety, build quality, and features of a JJP pin. 1/2 is being generous I'm some cases.

    As long as other companies are comparing themselves to Stern then they will know they are #1 just like the 90s Yankees and the Patriots

    -2
    #194 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You are in the top 5 Stern fanboys on this site, constantly bashing JJP and going gaga over anything Stern. Sorry but you have no credibility if you always show a biased towards one manufacturer and yes I've been critical of JJP many times.
    To this day I think some people are still pissed JJP came out of nowhere and started making more loaded pins with far better code support then a majority of Stern pins. JJP's very existence seems to piss them off lol.

    OMG Panzer next thing out of your mouth is going to be fair and balanced I bet. I regularly see you bashing on Stern threads don't act like you are not biased toward JJP

    #201 5 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    With JJP the higher price got you a better quality game.

    That explains why they removed the monkey

    -4
    #205 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You do realize Stern is charging $9k for LE's that have half as many features and have as much code right? I'm happy to keep selling my Stern pins for more JJP pins that are more fun to play, have more to do, are better built, and have far more code work going into them.

    You do realize Jack charges $3000 more for a CE and all you get is a crapy comic and a jacket they don't even have different art packages

    #326 5 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    And the chance to have dinner with Jack and Pat Lawlor. Don't leave that out.
    LTG : )

    I did remember the dinner but was not sure it ever happened as I remember a lot of when will the dinner talk happening

    #327 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    First off, all CE's, Platinums, Diamonds, and Super LE's are cash grabs regardless of the manfucater.
    As for Dialed In CE for $3k more you got higher quality laser etched armour, a mirrored backglass with unique art, dinner with JJP staff, a couple custom code line just for the CE, and the jacket. Still a cash grab regardless. Guess what you get for $7k more for a Beatles Platinum and $12k more for a Beatles Diamond? A mirrored backglass and different color armour. LOL!
    I can do this all day.

    First off I have no idea what is in a Beatles game what I do know is a $2000 jump while things are being taken out is BS. Then trying to defend that act by pointing at other money grabs and saying see it's not so bad is just a hot steaming turd of BS

    #328 5 years ago
    Quoted from Spencer:

    I'll never own another one due to the cost.

    That has become a big problem as many hardcore JJP fans have said the same thing

    #356 5 years ago
    Quoted from ataritoday:

    My theory....
    The launch price of WOZ was probably too low, but helped fund the start up of the company.... not a sustainable price. We have also heard that distributors have smaller margins on JJP pins, if true, supports there is pressure on gross profit / income margins.
    But once that price is out there, you have something that people anchor too.... and are left with two choices....
    1. scale back features of future games, keep price relatively flat and go head 2 head with Stern. not a fun choice. and not what they set up to be..
    2. start taking price as you launch new games and editions.... they took this path.
    The other challenge JJP has is volume. Fixed costs is a real thing, they have a building, they have workers, they have taxes, utlilities, etc.... So IF volume has been declining.... cost per unit game produced go up.... once again, more pressure on cost, thus need more price.
    POTC stopping production this quickly.....
    - maybe it is simply costing more to make then they realized... and thus not anxious to keep it on the line.... (this should not be the case though, forecasting COGS, bill of materials, labor, overhead, etc.... is really important to get right).
    - maybe as everyone has said the demand just was not as big as they had hoped... and they have some juggernaut titles ready to go, so why not shift gears.....they can always come back to POTC (maybe it gets to a cult status and they bring it back next year).
    Why YBR:
    - my guess is that their is more demand for the game.... I can imagine that new people/families coming into the hobby not knowing much and that WOZ is a really attractive game. So I think it is aimed at new people coming into the hobby. Why the price ? Allows distributors to get more margin and for JJP to get more margin, and they are probably testing the price point to see if it still moves...
    - why the monkey mech got removed, I dont know.... especially given the price increase.... I was guessing maybe the source for that part was no longer around and they had a choice to re-engineer and find a new supplier or do something simpler.... and they took simpler.
    In regards to the collectors and limited editions, I am not that person... but I can definitely see why folks who are into that get upset... to me it looks like JJP will continue to do multiple limited runs/versions of games.
    Although I don't like to see price increases JJP needs a business model that will work.... lets say for a second that they need to improve financials:
    1. Increase sales volume: quickly move to your believed juggernaut titles (WW, toy story, etc...). This they are doing.
    2. Increase volume: Make the product more differentiated, I don't think they need to do this, they are already top tier by a long shot on features.
    3. Find a way to maintain product features and reduce costs/price eventually... easier said then done given they are probably swamped trying to get the pins out. The key would be to figure out what is must have vs. what is nice to have.... and cut nice to have (keeping the customer at the front here).
    Wishing JJP the best, Dialed In on my radar for a pin I really want. My kids love it and I think it is really fun. I also really enjoy WOZ. Pricing of new pins is a bit much for me.... but hey, I'm not everyone so JJP needs to see if it can find its portion of the market and make it work.

    If $9500 is not profitable stick a fork in them they are done

    #419 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    JJP is getting beat up over YBR in this thread more then the crap Stern pulled with Beatles Platinum and Diamond. Both of those games cost $2500 - $8500 more then YBR and come with 1/4 as many featues, half the build quality and 1/10 of the code (that's being generous). All 3 of those games are way over priced but if you want to talk about offering 0 value with a cash grab game look at Stern.
    Also, I guess who cares about YBR, and Beatles Platinum / Diamond type games. Pinside and the average pinball owner is not the target audience for those games.
    Yes, YBR is a cash crab but it's not JJP's next flagship game, doesn't represent their new pricing all of a sudden, and for the love of pinball it doesn't mean JJP is hurting for money. Time to move on.

    Once again Panzer defends JJP by saying well well look what Stern did that was worse

    -2
    #434 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You act like JJP is the first pinball company to pull the CE cash grab crap, they are not. Stern has done it as well and to a far greater extreme.

    To a far greater extreme LOL every game JJP has made has been a cash grab AC/DC came out in 2012 at $4200 in 2012 jack was at $7500 three games later he is at $9500 and $11,500 for the same game that sold for $6500 and $7500. As for Stern cash grabs you have never heard me defend a game priced higher than a premium. You seem to feel the need to bring up Stern to justify JJP crapy behavior taking out the monkey and jacking up the price I think you need to get some cheese for that whine of yours

    -3
    #437 5 years ago
    Quoted from anathematize:

    JJP is still struggling with inexcusable QA issues and pulls mechs because they can't make them reliable.
    so your 'build quality' argument is frankly ridiculous.

    But the game is heavy that counts for something doesn't

    #444 5 years ago
    Quoted from Msch:

    If you buy anything advertised as “limited” or “collectible”, it is most likely neither of the two. A fool spends money on LEs. No one cares you own one. You’re not going to impress anyone.

    #449 5 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    In the case of Pirates, the LE adds so much stuff over the standard for only $1000 it’s a no-brainer.

    Calling JJP LE games limited is a bit of a joke it is = to a Stern premium more an open ended run as neither of the last two games have sold out and they do not have a numbered plack

    #470 5 years ago
    Quoted from Eryeal:

    Who would've thought in the span of 6 months, two pinball machines from two different manufacturers would have monkey controversies?

    Who would have thought JJP would ever have a worse reveal than DI

    -3
    #488 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Do you just sit around day wondering "how can I crap on JJP next"? Lol

    LOL with JJP reveals you do not need to there is always a joke on every game. The trunk the phone the original playfield dragon the three year wait

    #492 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    What are you even talking about? Your posts about JJP rarely if ever make sense. Again, are you just sitting on a toilet somewhere wondering "what can I complain about JJP next"?

    I have to sit on the toilet when talking about JJP as they churn my stomach you ask what to complain about next it's always price

    #498 5 years ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:

    How come every JJP thread devolves into a three sided piss fest that reminds me more of the Three Stooges, than the Three Amigos? Right now, if you lined all the manufacturers up for a race, pulled the trigger on the starting gun, here is what would happen...
    Good afternoon, Ladies and Gentlemen, and Welcome to Pinside Raceway, It’s Post Time- This is Bublehead your Master of Ceremonies coming to you live from sunny Arizona, the weather is clear, the track is dry, and that’s the bugle as our competitors make their way to the starting gate. There’s the Number 1 filly, a fine contender, Steve Richie’s BKSoR, being ridden today by Gary Stern. Gary has been know to take center stage when the chips are down, and today is no exception.
    Ok, and now I see the next horse coming up to the gate, Jersey Jack’s Dark horse Entry, WOZYBR, being riden by none other than Jack himself, you got to love his passion for competition. Jack has said some some things that are going to drive the fans wild, but his love of Chocolate, Axle Rose, and High End Toys has given the media pause for reflection.
    Ok, here comes CGC and their newest 20 year old, MBr, but wait, ok, yes, I seems CGC had some problems with their LE thouroughbred and had to substitute the CE yearling with a color chip upgrade... that is really going to impact their chances of winning here today.
    Our next rider has been having some trouble with his mount, I can’t see, wait, yes, yes, it is API, seems they got their music and monkey issues ironed out and yes , here he is Oktoberfest, being riden by his original Jockey, Castrated Monkey, you got to respect the balls on Mr. Monkey for showing up here today.
    Our next contestant is making their way to the chute... I can’t see the jockeys colors, wait, its white and pink silks with rainbow checkered chaps, yes it is the Multimophic entry, Lexy Lightspeed riding the mighty P3 steed. Boy there is a horse of a differnt color for you for sure.
    Bringing up the rear, the final entries are making their way now to the gate... some of these horses I think were entered because this is a Claiming race, we have Dutch Pinball’s entry, The Big Lewbowski, unfortunately he looks a little lame today, he’s been favouring that left front foot that keeps ending up in someone elses mouth on a pretty regular basis.
    Looks like a couple of others are struggling with their mounts in the chute, Homepin’s jockey is kicking the other jockeys and screaming “My mount is fun!” To anyone who will listen. His horse, TBag, however, seems to be living up to his well deserved name.
    The last four entries are being forced into the shutes now, they are having dificulty getting The Jetsons, a non discript 2 year old to settle down in his gate, as well as Kingpin and The Mafia who have been shooting smoldering glances at each other and pantomiming throat cuts all morning.
    Your final horse, ACNC, the latest mare from Spooky Farms decided to skip this race and play a game of TNA instead, probably a better use of their time as they are happy right where they are.
    And there’s the bell and they are off!
    JJP has jumped out to an amazing lead, Jack is really setting the pace this morning, followed closely by Gary on the outside, and CGC, with their Jockey Ryan bringing up the rear. The rest of the field is settling in for a decent afternoon run.
    Jack has now pulled ahead, but he is facing some strong POTC headwinds as he rounds the first turn, CGC is nipping at his heals, and Gary has pulled in behind on the rail, followed by API, that Oktoberfest filly is really catching a stride.
    The rest of the field is struggling to keep up the pace, but Labowski keeps chomping at his bit and DP is having trouble keeping him on the track. Mafia and Kingpin have broken out the handguns and the lead has started to fly... Watch it folks these guys are playing for blood.
    Rounding the back turn, WOZYBR has been spooked by a flying monkey, and has turned and headed the wrong direction.. Gary has started whipping BKSoR like a red headed stepchild, and Ryan, on his 20 year old has been fading fast, falling behind by 160 lengths.
    Mafia and Kingpin have given up completely, dismounting in the infield and breaking out switchblades, they are literaly at each others throats.
    The Pinball Company has continued to not spare the whip as it brings up the rear, The Jetsons is just to much a vanilla flavored dark horse to actually compete. My gosh what fun.
    Jack has finally got conrol of WOZYBR and turned her around and got her headed back in the right direction, but that u-turn reveal sure cost him the lead. Gary has seen the cracks in the veneer of that old yellow paint, and has redoubled his efforts, releasing a torrent of titles in hopes to put Jack and his aging steed finally out to pasture.
    But don’t tear those tickets up just yet folks, Oktoberfest has finally caught his wind and is coming on strong from the inside rail. That monkey is whipping that poor stud so fast you cant even see where his hand is, how ironic.
    As they round the final turn, its Gary out in front, Jersey Jack coming hard from the outside, and Ryan has his customers convinced the quality of the LE is worth waiting on and has MBrCE pushing for a photo finish...
    Multimorphic has been hanging on by Lexy’s pink silks but a public cry of “Mhe” rings out from the crowd as she takes the forth turn and heads for home.
    They are pounding for the end now, steel balls and rubber rings a flyin’, as each Jockey positions for a chance at that finish line. It’s neck and neck ladies and gentlemen, you can see the flashing siver of Gary’s mane as the pulsing vein in Jacks forhead swells with each thrash of the whip. Ryan has broken out his cell phone and is taking another call from an angry MBrLE customer, as Multimophic continues to try an be relevant. Oktoberfest has overcome his earlier mis-“handling” and is charging for finish.
    Its Gary, its Jack, it’s CGC, its API... down to the wire and it’s...
    Holy freaking COW!!! Ladies and Gentlman, Alien has broken through the club house gates and has started consuming the other contestants... He just bit the head of BKSoR and threw Oktoberfest into the stands, oh my god the carnage... Jack has dismounted and is running for the infield... Ooow! That’s got to hurt, can we get a medic to the infield please? Now it has Gary by his magnificinat silver hair and, oh, I didn’t know an eyeball could do that... I’m sorry ladies, and gentlemen, this is just too much, oh the humanity, I am afriad I have to stop, this is just too awful....
    <mike drop>...

    Fantastic

    #536 4 years ago
    Quoted from jfh:

    I really hope JJP doesn’t do GNR. Music pins have been overdone in the last few years and probably have the shortest theme lifespan. I won’t consider any music pin - even for bands/groups I love - because I think they become dated faster than just about any other theme.
    Unless JJP has some market research that shows GNR is going to be a massive hit for them, they should stick with more mainstream themes. I’m not sure what happened with JJPOTC; I expected it to be a better seller. Maybe it was the neutered IP, maybe wheel-gate, maybe the movie franchise tie-in was too little, too late.
    JJP did reasonably well with Hobbit and Dialed In but needs another WOZ level seller to solidify their position in the industry rather than being remembered as a one-hit wonder. And they need to do it without sacrificing quality and depth or crossing the $10k mark for a Standard.

    $10,000 by Christmas used to be a Pinside joke JJP has made it a standard price it is the price not the games that have slowed sales Jack has over stepped on price

    -13
    #551 4 years ago
    Quoted from KingPinGames:

    Please update your post to reflect my current standings

    will remove your link don't want people coming in to buy who you might be able to sell another JJP game

    -5
    #553 4 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I've never seen someone more obsessed then yourself with trying to constantly bash and put down JJP. Why is that? What did JJP do to piss you off so much?
    There's multiple distributors out there with ads for the game but they are many are sold out as believe it or not ads don't update themselves...

    Funny I could say the same of you I see you all over the Stern threads. By the way if you read my post I seldom criticize JJP games I criticize the price I call BS on all the crap fans throw at other companies to build up JJP last I call BS on the wild sales claims I have heard for two years DI CE is sold out LOL. You Panzer on the other hand regularly trash Sterns games everything from how they play to how they are built so in the end you tear down Stern far more than I teardown JJP

    -7
    #558 4 years ago
    Quoted from f3honda4me:

    As someone who loves JJP and Stern and CGC and others and who is in all those threads daily, you're the biggest anti-JJP poster I can think of. You're constantly in JJP threads. Quick search of your forum posts verifies this. When it comes to criticizing JJP games for things other than price, "seldom" is not the word I'd use to describe your posts.

    I did remember the dinner but was not sure it ever happened as I remember a lot of when will the dinner talk happening

    But the game is heavy that counts for something doesn't

    post 444

    Who would have thought JJP would ever have a worse reveal than DI

    Fantastic post 498

    These are all non-price non -calling out others on BS post from this thread

    -1
    #562 4 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    not owned a JJP pin and just seem to enjoy bashing them and never say a positive thing about the company.

    I have never said a positive thing about Sterns overpriced games as well. As I have stated it is the price and BS claims not the games I criticize

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