(Topic ID: 239358)

My current take on JJP pinball after TPF....

By iceman44

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Lamprey
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    There are 602 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 13.
    #401 5 years ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    retail store told me they will price the YBR at $15 to 18k.

    Please provide the name of this retail store.

    #402 5 years ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    Please provide the name of this retail store.

    Pinside when it finds out the name...

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    #403 5 years ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    you can’t deal with facts.

    #404 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    JJP is getting beat up over YBR in this thread more then the crap Stern pulled with Beatles Platinum and Diamond. Both of those games cost $2500 - $8500 more then YBR and come with 1/4 as many featues, half the build quality and 1/10 of the code (that's being generous). All 3 of those games are way over priced but if you want to talk about offering 0 value with a cash grab game look at Stern.
    Also, I guess who cares about YBR, and Beatles Platinum / Diamond type games. Pinside and the average pinball owner is not the target audience for those games.
    Yes, YBR is a cash crab but it's not JJP's next flagship game, doesn't represent their new pricing all of a sudden, and for the love of pinball it doesn't mean JJP is hurting for money. Time to move on.

    Not really true at all. Not sure why you have to spin everything JJP's way. There was tons more hate for BM66 and The Beatles. Those threads are still popping up with people whining. There have been tons of positive comments about JJP except from the usual 1 or 2 haters.

    The only thing in this thread getting beat up is drfrightner. Who talks about a magical Saks Fifth Avenue of pinball that doesn't exist. I can only assume hes talking The Pinball Company but they price much better then that. MO is known for it's hot bed of "high end pinball stores". Dude sounds like hes screaming at his computer all high pitched and sweaty as hes typing frantically.

    #405 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    ...stuff...doesn't represent their new pricing all of a sudden...stuff...

    Are we sure on that? I think that is a huge concern for lots of would be Wonka buyers. Are we seeing the setup of the current JJP pricing structure? Once we know that that is/isn't the case, maybe a lot of folks will breath easier or give up on the game.

    #406 5 years ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    Not really true at all. Not sure why you have to spin everything JJP's way. There was tons more hate for BM66 and The Beatles. Those threads are still popping up with people whining. There have been tons of positive comments about JJP except from the usual 1 or 2 haters.
    The only thing in this thread getting beat up is drfrightner. Who talks about a magical Saks Fifth Avenue of pinball that doesn't exist. I can only assume hes talking The Pinball Company but they price much better then that. MO is known for it's hot bed of "high end pinball stores". Dude sounds like hes screaming at his computer all high pitched and sweaty as hes typing frantically.

    I didn't bring up the whole Batman SLE debacle which while a cash grab as well Stern actually added a lot of unique features to the game and set the limit to 80 (well, after raising it from 50). JJP could have done something similar with YBR, went over the top with it and created 50-100 ultimate WOZ's.

    #407 5 years ago

    This thread is long.... but did anyone mention that JJP is inherently handicapped just by the fact that financially, New Jersey is one of the worst states to have a business, and one of the worst to live? Basically the costs are already higher simply because the financial burden of operating in NJ?

    #408 5 years ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    Iceman,
    I’m not digging my own grave because you can’t deal with facts. When I think about the dumb things you say it reminds me of that movie airplane... where everyone on the plane tries to kill themselves from listening to the star of the movie tell his stories. Everything you say is a story because you can’t handle the truth quote from another famous movie. Maybe JJP should make that movie into a pinball JUST FOR YOU BROTHER! LOL

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    #409 5 years ago
    Quoted from Genjuro:

    This thread is long.... but did anyone mention that JJP is inherently handicapped just by the fact that financially, New Jersey is one of the worst states to have a business, and one of the worst to live? Basically the costs are already higher simply because the financial burden of operating in NJ?

    I've brought it up before without gaining much traction. Even moving the facility over to eastern PA would be a significant savings.

    #410 5 years ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    I've brought it up before without gaining much traction. Even moving the facility over to eastern PA would be a significant savings.

    Agreed, but if they ever did move, they need to move to SC near the BMW factory. There are a lot of technical people in that area and the community of Greenville would be happy to have them.

    #411 5 years ago
    Quoted from Genjuro:

    Agreed, but if they ever did move, they need to move to SC near the BMW factory. There are a lot of technical people in that area and the community of Greenville would be happy to have them.

    Heck yeah, and I'd be 15 minutes away from them, win-win

    #412 5 years ago

    Apparently a stab at grabbing part of Stern's bread and butter? It's a dreadfully awful theme, given that the band has have been a complete laughing stock for more than 2 decades. One album in 25 years, and it was a complete and total flop. I hope JJP ditches this idea for something decent.

    #413 5 years ago

    I think the difference between YBR and Beatles is that Beatles was all new. Not an existing game where they decontented the most important area of a game, the play field, then priced it up $2000. If they had taken Batman Dark Knight, removed the crane, and then charged more that would have been closer. But they didn't, they made BM66, all new art, rules, sound and an LCD.... and then charged more.

    I believe if JJP had just left the monkey and committed to a lower than ruby red build count (500?), that rarity and all the new bling would have justified the higher price to most. As always, just my two cents.

    #414 5 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Apparently a stab at grabbing part of Stern's bread and butter? It's a dreadfully awful theme, given that the band has have been a complete laughing stock for more than 2 decades. One album in 25 years, and it was a complete and total flop. I hope JJP ditches this idea for something decent.

    Laughing stock?
    Your opinion and facts don't seem to correlate. Their recent 125 show "Not in This Lifetime" tour sold 4,189,774 tickets (96.8% of the total available). Far from a flop. They also grossed $563 million, the second highest grossing concert tour of all time. That would be considered a financial success.

    #415 5 years ago

    Well, the Beatles license wasn't exactly cheap, either...that money had to be recouped somewhere.

    #416 5 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Apparently a stab at grabbing part of Stern's bread and butter? It's a dreadfully awful theme, given that the band has have been a complete laughing stock for more than 2 decades. One album in 25 years, and it was a complete and total flop. I hope JJP ditches this idea for something decent.

    It actually went platinum. So a total flop... No not really. Did it make its money back. No. The production cost on the thing was 4-10 million dollars or something absurd. But, if it didn't have the production costs. It would have made money.
    Were the sales good for past GNR sales... No... But, Rock is dead.
    I hate to say it. But, it is.
    And the sales are never coming back. We're at the end of a real era. So with all of that considered. It sold good. Just they needed to keep expectations and costs down.
    Kind of like how people thought Scott Pilgrim was an automatic box office hit, cos the graphic novel was so popular... Yes, for graphic novel sales. If the film was a low budget film to reflect the films 200,000 fan base.. Would have done fine. But, the budget was too high to ever make its money back.

    #417 5 years ago
    Quoted from RCA1:

    Please provide the name of this retail store.

    I asked for a link to this mythical 15k+ YBR that's for sale back on page 7. I mean, if he know this for a FACT he should be able to provide it easily.

    ....crickets...

    #418 5 years ago
    Quoted from Capn12:

    Well, the Beatles license wasn't exactly cheap, either...that money had to be recouped somewhere.

    How much was the Beatles license?

    #419 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    JJP is getting beat up over YBR in this thread more then the crap Stern pulled with Beatles Platinum and Diamond. Both of those games cost $2500 - $8500 more then YBR and come with 1/4 as many featues, half the build quality and 1/10 of the code (that's being generous). All 3 of those games are way over priced but if you want to talk about offering 0 value with a cash grab game look at Stern.
    Also, I guess who cares about YBR, and Beatles Platinum / Diamond type games. Pinside and the average pinball owner is not the target audience for those games.
    Yes, YBR is a cash crab but it's not JJP's next flagship game, doesn't represent their new pricing all of a sudden, and for the love of pinball it doesn't mean JJP is hurting for money. Time to move on.

    Once again Panzer defends JJP by saying well well look what Stern did that was worse

    #420 5 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Once again Panzer defends JJP by saying well well look what Stern did that was worse

    You act like JJP is the first pinball company to pull the CE cash grab crap, they are not. Stern has done it as well and to a far greater extreme.

    #421 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You act like JJP is the first pinball company to pull the CE cash grab crap, they are not. Stern has done it as well and to a far greater extreme.

    Has Stern removed any of the game’s toys on their cash grabs?

    #422 5 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    How much was the Beatles license?

    Oh, I wish I knew. I just know it comes at a premium, considering the source. Anything tagged with their license, has a premium price attached to it. I remember when they announced a Beatles 45 Jukebox in 2017. I thought, "awesome, that will be fun to get, and probably be ~$5000 or so maybe?"

    Then it dropped at $11,900, and...that made the decision for me a LOT easier.

    18
    #423 5 years ago

    I never understand why people take sides unless you have a vested interest in a company. Maybe it’s just passion for one brand. I like JJP, Stern, Spooky, CGC. More pinball is good for all.

    #424 5 years ago
    Quoted from jarozi:

    I think the difference between YBR and Beatles is that Beatles was all new. Not an existing game where they decontented the most important area of a game, the play field, then priced it up $2000. If they had taken Batman Dark Knight, removed the crane, and then charged more that would have been closer. But they didn't, they made BM66, all new art, rules, sound and an LCD.... and then charged more.
    I believe if JJP had just left the monkey and committed to a lower than ruby red build count (500?), that rarity and all the new bling would have justified the higher price to most. As always, just my two cents.

    Agree with this ^^^

    I can only speak for myself but, eventhough I’m not happy about the price increase, it’s not my gripe here at all.

    My worry is more about damaging their reputation because JJP have built their company on the principle of not comprimizing on mechs and POTC and YBR are hurting this reputation. Ask yourself this, would Jack have allowed this mech to be removed after WOZ was first revealed in 2010? Absolutely no way.

    I’m just saying that JJP with POTC and YBR is becoming associated with mech removal and it’s not ideal.

    #425 5 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I never understand why people take sides unless you have a vested interest in a company. Maybe it’s just passion for one brand. I like JJP, Stern, Spooky, CGC. More pinball is good for all.

    Eh, ultimately I think what you are really seeing is people are getting frustrated by the ever increasing prices for 'less and less' and looking to blame that on specific business decisions, such as this one.

    #426 5 years ago

    As for some of the more extreme posts in this thread whose authors I’ve blocked so I don’t read anyway, please don’t lump me and other JJP fans into this pile. Each author represents only themselves.

    We have some ligitimate concerns we are discussing, there is no hate coming from us. I love pinball, love JJP and love this hobby.

    I don’t work for or with JJP so I can express without bias that JJP’s YBR release was not 10 out of 10.

    #427 5 years ago

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    #428 5 years ago
    Quoted from Psw757:

    How many times since JJP’s inception have big investors had to come in and sink big money?
    Hasn’t upper level mgmt changed a few times since 2012 as well?
    I think we all want them to succeed as they do build the best quality game but something just seems off with how the company is run.
    How much money you really think they make per machine? I think we would all be surprised how low it is.

    When I had my pre-order totally paid in full in on WOZECLE for 2+ years without getting my pin, I was getting pretty nervous.

    I was wondering if I might see Jack appear on an episode of Shark Tank. LOL (Maybe not a bad idea for that exposure too).

    I do remember an episode whee there was a guy from a virtual pinball company on Shark Tank and he did make a deal.

    Fortunately, I did get my WOZECLE but I will never do a full pre-order payment like that again.

    I was also disappointed as I was thinking they would never make more than 1000 WOZ's period.

    #429 5 years ago

    I tried to get excited about every new Stern release but have not bought one new Spike system since they started.
    Bought NIB FG, MET PRO, STPRO but just something about the cheaper build turns me off and that whiney fan.
    I play them, want to like them but just can't open my wallet for them.
    Example: Munsters should have drop targets but have been replaced with standup "panels" that activate lights Example: Lily.
    Takes the fun out of seeing a drop target drop and reset, one of a pinball staples in my book.
    Same with the left side kickback ball save. All to save $$$.

    #430 5 years ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    [quoted image][quoted image]

    This would be correct. Doesn't minimize Ice's points, as I believe they are valid, but time to move on to a new horse to beat.... (someone insert the .gif please, can't find it currently)....

    #431 5 years ago
    Quoted from drfrightner:

    Iceman,
    I’m not digging my own grave because you can’t deal with facts. When I think about the dumb things you say it reminds me of that movie airplane... where everyone on the plane tries to kill themselves from listening to the star of the movie tell his stories. Everything you say is a story because you can’t handle the truth quote from another famous movie. Maybe JJP should make that movie into a pinball JUST FOR YOU BROTHER! LOL

    Wow, you just told your own story

    A total lack of self awareness

    #whereistheYBRretailstore

    #432 5 years ago
    Quoted from Genjuro:

    This thread is long.... but did anyone mention that JJP is inherently handicapped just by the fact that financially, New Jersey is one of the worst states to have a business, and one of the worst to live? Basically the costs are already higher simply because the financial burden of operating in NJ?

    Excellent point. Not to mention Chicago.

    Deeproot has one advantage being here in south Texas.

    #433 5 years ago
    Quoted from JodyG:

    Laughing stock?
    Your opinion and facts don't seem to correlate. Their recent 125 show "Not in This Lifetime" tour sold 4,189,774 tickets (96.8% of the total available). Far from a flop. They also grossed $563 million, the second highest grossing concert tour of all time. That would be considered a financial success.

    What he said is all true! Just watched the Duff dude on the Rich Eison show.

    -2
    #434 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    You act like JJP is the first pinball company to pull the CE cash grab crap, they are not. Stern has done it as well and to a far greater extreme.

    To a far greater extreme LOL every game JJP has made has been a cash grab AC/DC came out in 2012 at $4200 in 2012 jack was at $7500 three games later he is at $9500 and $11,500 for the same game that sold for $6500 and $7500. As for Stern cash grabs you have never heard me defend a game priced higher than a premium. You seem to feel the need to bring up Stern to justify JJP crapy behavior taking out the monkey and jacking up the price I think you need to get some cheese for that whine of yours

    #435 5 years ago

    In the market for $1M rugs and came across this thread. Very lucky too cause I like collecting pinball machines and putting them on my rugs. YBR was poorly planned and executed. Target audience are rubes who wipe their butts with Benjamin’s. One thing is certain ...

    Willy Wonka better be FCKNG Amazing! I’m expecting a Broadway style reveal and full court media press to follow release.

    #436 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    JJP is getting beat up over YBR in this thread more then the crap Stern pulled with Beatles Platinum and Diamond. Both of those games cost $2500 - $8500 more then YBR and come with 1/4 as many featues, half the build quality and 1/10 of the code (that's being generous). All 3 of those games are way over priced but if you want to talk about offering 0 value with a cash grab game look at Stern.
    Also, I guess who cares about YBR, and Beatles Platinum / Diamond type games. Pinside and the average pinball owner is not the target audience for those games.
    Yes, YBR is a cash crab but it's not JJP's next flagship game, doesn't represent their new pricing all of a sudden, and for the love of pinball it doesn't mean JJP is hurting for money. Time to move on.

    at least Beatles had ADDED features and code compared to SeaWitch and a 'holy grail' theme that people have been craving for ages. and yes. it is an overpriced machine.

    plus... beatles seems to be built like a tank. whereas JJP is still struggling with inexcusable QA issues and pulls mechs because they can't make them reliable.

    so your 'build quality' argument is frankly ridiculous.

    -3
    #437 5 years ago
    Quoted from anathematize:

    JJP is still struggling with inexcusable QA issues and pulls mechs because they can't make them reliable.
    so your 'build quality' argument is frankly ridiculous.

    But the game is heavy that counts for something doesn't

    #438 5 years ago
    Quoted from anathematize:

    at least Beatles had ADDED features and code compared to SeaWitch and a 'holy grail' theme that people have been craving for ages. and yes. it is an overpriced machine.
    plus... beatles seems to be built like a tank. whereas JJP is still struggling with inexcusable QA issues and pulls mechs because they can't make them reliable.
    so your 'build quality' argument is frankly ridiculous.

    I was talking about Beatles Platinum and Diamond and the $15k and $20k asking price for them, not the gold edition...My goodness.

    #439 5 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    But the game is heavy that counts for something doesn't

    Jeez, JJP pins are heavier and the cabinets don't crack at the corners unlike countless Sterns that weigh 100lbs less. Why is that? Please tell me.

    Have fun buying corner brackets and then noticing that they can't be screwed in well due to the lower quality of wood recent Stern cabinets have. Yeah, JJP destroys Stern in build quality. I also expect there to be more tweaking in a JJP as there's far more in them. Want nothing to go wrong? Buy a Star Wars pro or Iron Maiden Pro as there's not a single toy that interacts with the ball in either.

    #440 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Jeez, JJP pins are heavier and the cabinets don't crack at the corners unlike countless Sterns that weigh 100lbs less. Why is that? Please tell me.
    Have fun buying corner brackets and then noticing that they can't be screwed in well due to the lower quality of wood recent Stern cabinets have. Yeah, JJP destroys Stern in build quality. I also expect there to be more tweaking in a JJP as there's far more in them. Want nothing to go wrong? Buy a Star Wars pro or Iron Maiden Pro as there's not a single toy that interacts with the ball in either.

    Couldn't agree more. Stern games that have mechs have just as many issues. Garage in tspp, toybox in AS, ball locks in maiden, etc.

    #441 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Jeez, JJP pins are heavier and the cabinets don't crack at the corners unlike countless Sterns that weigh 100lbs less. Why is that? Please tell me.
    Have fun buying corner brackets and then noticing that they can't be screwed in well due to the lower quality of wood recent Stern cabinets have. Yeah, JJP destroys Stern in build quality. I also expect there to be more tweaking in a JJP as there's far more in them. Want nothing to go wrong? Buy a Star Wars pro or Iron Maiden Pro as there's not a single toy that interacts with the ball in either.

    True: Stern has cabinet and node board issues
    JJP has had a lot of issues as well.
    50:50
    If you need me to explain I can sum it up for you.

    Pros are stripped down for a reason. They are more affordable.

    I would love to see JJP do a pro version of a game.
    Imagine POTC without the spinning disc, motorized mini playfield and no cannon shot. Would the game still be good. IMHO yes. If the game was 7500 it probably sell better.

    #442 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Jeez, JJP pins are heavier and the cabinets don't crack at the corners unlike countless Sterns that weigh 100lbs less. Why is that? Please tell me.
    Have fun buying corner brackets and then noticing that they can't be screwed in well due to the lower quality of wood recent Stern cabinets have. Yeah, JJP destroys Stern in build quality. I also expect there to be more tweaking in a JJP as there's far more in them. Want nothing to go wrong? Buy a Star Wars pro or Iron Maiden Pro as there's not a single toy that interacts with the ball in either.

    Let’s be fair here, POTC has not been a flawless build. Go read over the owners thread again to freshen up on the issues because there have been a ton. Yes they are all fixable and so are the stern issues.

    As a POTC owner I can say that I’ve had more issues with this one machine than every other machine combined in my collection, and they get played frequently.

    Where JJP really shines is innovation, amount of features and their cornerstone in my opinion is CODE and definitely not reliability. I’m always having to fiddle with POTC. Fun game though.

    #443 5 years ago

    If you buy anything advertised as “limited” or “collectible”, it is most likely neither of the two. A fool spends money on LEs. No one cares you own one. You’re not going to impress anyone.

    #444 5 years ago
    Quoted from Msch:

    If you buy anything advertised as “limited” or “collectible”, it is most likely neither of the two. A fool spends money on LEs. No one cares you own one. You’re not going to impress anyone.

    #445 5 years ago

    I tend to agree on the "collectible/Limited" comments. That being said I have purchased several LE's in the past. Typical my decision is driven by the additional features u get on the LE .... In JJP's case having the invisiglass and headphone/volume on the coin door are big pluses in my environment....most of the other stuff doesn't matter much....

    #446 5 years ago
    Quoted from Msch:

    If you buy anything advertised as “limited” or “collectible”, it is most likely neither of the two. A fool spends money on LEs. No one cares you own one. You’re not going to impress anyone.

    In the case of Pirates, the LE adds so much stuff over the standard for only $1000 it’s a no-brainer.

    #447 5 years ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I tend to agree on the "collectible/Limited" comments. That being said I have purchased several LE's in the past. Typical my decision is driven by the additional features u get on the LE .... In JJP's case having the invisiglass and headphone/volume on the coin door are big pluses in my environment....most of the other stuff doesn't matter much....

    Yeah, there's little question JJP screwed up on naming their models. Maybe Standard, deluxe, CE would have been better. It's really weird to market something as an LE without it being limited in numbers. In the end, people who do the research know this anyway and I guess people that don't do the research on 9-10K items are probably making a lot worse financial decisions in their lives (or don't care).

    #448 5 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    I was talking about Beatles Platinum and Diamond and the $15k and $20k asking price for them, not the gold edition...My goodness.

    just like the gold... both the diamond and platinum have ADDED features and more code than SeaWitch. and they are absurdly overpriced.

    WoZ YBR has REMOVED a marquee feature and has the same code. and its absurdly overpriced.

    make sense?

    and JJP still has inexcusable QA issues direct from the factory that has customers breaking out soldering irons for their NIB $9000 toy. bash on Stern all you want - they have their issues too - but they are not even close to the same level as JJP's problems. and yes. that is the price of innovation. we all understand that.

    take a step back for a second and try to have an objective opinion. all the white knighting for this company is just crazy. its a business... not your friend.

    #449 5 years ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    In the case of Pirates, the LE adds so much stuff over the standard for only $1000 it’s a no-brainer.

    Calling JJP LE games limited is a bit of a joke it is = to a Stern premium more an open ended run as neither of the last two games have sold out and they do not have a numbered plack

    #450 5 years ago
    Quoted from iloveplywood:

    Yeah, there's little question JJP screwed up on naming their models. Maybe Standard, deluxe, CE would have been better. It's really weird to market something as an LE without it being limited in numbers. In the end, people who do the research know this anyway and I guess people that don't do the research on 9-10K items are probably making a lot worse financial decisions in their lives (or don't care).

    to me I just look at the additional features that are offered on the LE's, attempt to put a value on each item and if it gets close to the $1K difference I pull the trigger....on JJP games the glass and headphone/volume jack are almost $500 so I'm already half way there....

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