That explains why they removed the monkey

What facts say otherwise?

They were already stated, scroll back through the thread.

You do realize Jack charges $3000 more for a CE and all you get is a crapy comic and a jacket they don't even have different art packages

Don't facts have to be accurate ?

Take Williams for example. They made a run of games. And stopped to make the next one. JJP needs to stop producing a game to get ready for the next one. Their production model seems to be changing to two games a year. And they filled their production orders and made plans to move to the next game.

The only incompetent thing management ever did was get me for tech support. That one is debatable.

LTG : )

Even getting into this discussion is probably a big mistake, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway. I can't speculate on JJP's financial stability, whether or not they are adhering to a planned business model, or if they completely don't know what the hell they are doing. What I can say is the goal of any company is to get your money and be profitable.

Speaking only for myself, JJP just doesn't make me want to give them my money. For example, WOZ is a beautiful game, and I enjoyed playing it the few times I found it in the wild. But I didn't want to buy it. Making three more versions of the same game (announcing them in succession as if they are a new game) doesn't suddenly make me think "Awesome, it's now painted red/yellow!! Just what I've been waiting for.". Have a lot of buyers been enticed by the various incarnations and sold one to get the other, and then repeated the process a third time?

So if I don't like their current offering, I expect a long wait until something different is actually available to sit in my gameroom. Putting down deposits and waiting six months for something isn't my idea of buying a pinball machine. The same applies to other smaller pin builders. I can't justify in my own head buying 20 pinball machines, given the ability or not. That's my own issue, but it forces selectivity. Stern's production process offers something the other companies don't....more choices.

I know right away what is going to be available...pro/prem/LE and what's on them. I also know that I'll be seeing playthroughs and physical machines in the wild in a matter of weeks. If I like them, great, they'll be readily available whenever I'm ready to pull the trigger. If it's not tugging at the wallet, that's ok. It'll be just a few short months until another new game is announced.

I've got nothing against either company, but Stern is just more likely to get my money.

And the chance to have dinner with Jack and Pat Lawlor. Don't leave that out.

LTG : )

Your money. Your decision. No matter the game or the manufacturer, these games cost a lot of money and you should always get the one you want. The one that provides what you are looking for in a pin.

LTG : )

I truly admire JJP's desire to produce a top-notch, quality machine. IMO, no-one comes close to the quality of their machines and their dedication to providing the community pinball machines that are packed with innovative new "toys". I've only owned one newer Stern (GBLE) and I can say this...the moment I unpacked the machine, I could tell that this machine was just thrown onto the assembly line and "spit out" as quickly as possible. Since JJP started making machines, I think Stern has "improved" their machines, (only in design, NOT materials) but I don't agree w/ the statement that they "upped their game". To me, all of their machines appear to be "re-hashes" of past designs. JJP puts a ton of time/effort into everything they design/manufacture. Their machines are "built like a tank".

Although I love the business plan of building top-notch, fully loaded games, I wouldn't mind seeing them take a step back and design a simpler, Stern-like game, just to "test the waters". By typical, I mean, design something w/ a "bash toy" or 2...thrown in a couple ramps, and call it a day. If JJP wants a business model of producing 2 titles per year, I say give us one, "fully packed" machine, then make the 2nd title a less costly, "stripped-down" title.

On a last note....keep ALL of the titles to one version of LE.

You can put a beautiful paint job on a AMC Pacer but that doesn’t mean its fun to drive.

In the red corner for JJP it's ....... Panzer

And in the blue corner for Stern it's .........Who-Dey

Seconds out - Round 1.

Ding ding!

First off, all CE's, Platinums, Diamonds, and Super LE's are cash grabs regardless of the manfucater.

As for Dialed In CE for $3k more you got higher quality laser etched armour, a mirrored backglass with unique art, dinner with JJP staff, a couple custom code line just for the CE, and the jacket. Still a cash grab regardless. Guess what you get for $7k more for a Beatles Platinum and $12k more for a Beatles Diamond? A mirrored backglass and different color armour. LOL!

I can do this all day.

But you don't have to ...

I should have said a Prius because thats what Panzer drives.

Which direction is that supposed to persuade me?

People confuse their dislike of specific games to making it a competition. WE are the buyers. WE should be routing for all manufacturers to succeed because that means more to choose from.

Stern didn't build a game I wanted in 10 years. It doesn't mean I didn't play them and consider them through that time. Eventually they released one I really liked.

JJP is the same. I don't care for WoZ or Pirates, but love DI.

Point is..quit trying to make some division. This isn't politics, or cars.

I think the top 5 stern and top 5 JJP fanboys should be locked in chest and sent to Davey Jones locker with the POTC production. Seldom does a lot of reason come from any of them.

Sorry for my poor attempt at humor. I was just adding to JY64's post. Ignoring what is actually different on the game itself on the CE model.

LTG : )

It was funny as hell LTG.

Might be time to take a break from the internet and go on your first date. I’ll even pay for dinner and theater tickets.

I am I the only one that notices that when these games come up for sale that they all have 300 or so plays on them ..especially dialed in ...??

Sounds like a majority of HUO games.

Tell them I said congrats!

Says the fanboy who buys every single new game that hits the market.

The JJP hate is here is so freaking ridiculous... If you don't like their pins, don't buy one... It's really not complicated, yet we have several threads where all people are doing is bashing the brand and whining about how expensive they are, and blah blah blah... My two favorite pins in my measly little collection are, by far, my two JJP pins and I can't wait to purchase whatever JJP comes up with for Wonka. Seems like most of the complaining is about cost... Well you either can afford it or you can't and whining about it isn't going to change anything. JJP makes a very quality machine and provides great customer service behind the sale. I'm not going to bash any other maker either, Stern makes a solid machine as well.

Yeah I know I'm new around here and I expect to take some heat for this comment but seriously people...

Jeff

I'm drunk and this thread still doesn't make any sense

I'll give you a pass Jeff. But the next time you make sense on Pinside, I'm flagging your post. You're only allowed to flame and wildly speculate on the demise of pinball manufacturers here.

Let's do some math:

RR Woz: $9,500
RADCals: $400
Wooden apron and ybr playfield upgrade: $600 (why not)
Headphone/volume jack in front of game: $100 (if compared to Stern)
Better cabinet access, but no monkey mech = wash

$10,600. I don't know what else is there, but it does not add up to $11,500. Flamers are comparing YBR to the $6,500 ECLE 6 years ago. It's not 6 years ago and JJP lost money on that deal. It's less than a $1,000 delta between RR Woz and YBR. It's not the reach people are overreacting and making it out to be. Buy it or don't. It's a luxury line, whether you think the value is there or not. Market will dictate the pricing. I just hope Willy Wonka is $9,000 for the LE this time around.

Jeff
I second that and raise you one jjp pin. I have 3 jjp pins and by far they are the most played and enjoyed games that I own.

I realize comments here are the opposite of mine other annoying thinking your so great and only your opinion is gospel that's your problem. I also have 4 Sterns and am considering BK. Cheers.

That's not true at all. I dont have the space or cash to blow like that. I buy maybe 1 out of 6 new releases NIB from the major companies. I'm glad you think of me as rich dude with unlimited funds though. Maybe some day I'll be that guy

Can i thumbs up this more than once ?

I thought we were mostly talking about how we see JJP going after the YBR announcement and what it means if anything. Some think it's a bad sign others seem to think they are crushing it about to release 2 new titles. Most of the thread is discussion about it and while a little heated nothing major. You learn to ignore the people that take it way too far and are broken records in every thread or you ignore them for real with the pinside feature.

Welcome to pinside and I'm glad you love your pins. Pinball has options for just about everyone.

I hope im that guy too someday. If you ever figure out how to do it please let me know. I was just messing with you anyways, i wish we could all have as many games as we wanted to.

Better cabinet access but no monkey mech = wash?

Your entire point is invalid just on that logic alone. Yeah I'm going to value the fact I can see a computer board quicker over actually having a really cool toy in the game. Right.

If you think a yellow WoZ for 11.5 doesn't warrant a significant backlash, you're already too far gone and can't be helped.

I said this many times - Jack finally has the cards stacked in his favor with fantastic themes. It seems like the games will get out the door quicker. This has to be the year of jjp right? What could go wrong now?

Pricing.

I have a feeling this yellow WoZ ridiculous pricing is the gateway drug I mean pin of getting their base ready for WW at 11.5 too. How in the world can they sell WoZ LE for more than their brand new Wonka LE?

Holy shit Jack don't F this up with pricing.

I am drunk too so guess I will play........The first time I saw WOZ was when Metallica first came out. Local distributor had WOZ and a Metallica Pro....non LED because the LED Pro did not exist yet. WOZ was BEAUTIFUL!!!! Gorgeous looking pin. Game play of Metallica was awesome. WOZ was good too. Glad to see WOZ is still in demand as I hope to own one some day. JJP is young as a company. They build a high quality game but need a home run and need to produce multiple titles a year to really be successful. We are always waiting for the next game hoping it will be better than the last.....the YBR may be a cash grab but it may connect with the right buyers as well. If JJP needed money they could lower the price in and sell more units. I don’t believe money is an issue. It’s capitalism at its finest. Stern does it too as of late. JJP needs more titles....They have no “Vault” to go to like Stern when they need a filler for the line.

I see a lot of bitching about prices in this thread but someone is buying them because prices have not come down....until games don’t sell prices won’t come down. Quit buying these overpriced games and prices will correct. If people keep buying at high prices then the market is there and they are priced accordingly....

If anyone thinks these UGLY turd ybr versions are going to sell out at $11,000, yet alone the laughable $15,000 ( good lord ) Your dreaming. Its the ugliest version BY FAR, it lacks features of the other versions and yet is priced what $3500 above a WOZECLE?? Hahahaha, just because the distro's bought them means nothing.

I love JJP games but with exchange and such, I'll never own another one due to the cost.

Pinside as a whole could use some of that attitude.

I actually think this WOZ is a CE. Jack should have labeled it as such. I’m holding onto hope that WW LE is no more than $9500. Though $9000 is what they should be pricing their LE at.

I have the desire...but the brain is still saying "how many toys do you need"!! Maybe if I have another drink and kill a few of those damn cells....

Good thinking. A stripped down version is now the CE? Sure, makes sense.

Monkey mech aside yes it’s more like a CE.

He is just a bit... uh... overly emotional, like a certain other (banned) someone, ain't he?

Will never forget Ice ranting in the first TWIPY twitch chat against how shit Dialed In! is.
Or the "how shit is Beatles" thread, shortly before buying one.

On top of the world, or in the depths of despair,... it's ok just don't insult each other.

That said Jack really didn't handle things well, as for the "limitation" of the YBR Edition or why PotC production stopped, but that doesn't neccesarily mean anything.

LOL, yup keep telling me about it, start with the yellow trim please.

What model gets me a greasy pizza, cold brews, and hanging out with LTG?

I've bought two back to back, and frankly after the fact with this last one, I thought I should have skimped on the to tech package model and bought one for less, and gotten a pinball game too!

Lloyd...Jesus....

Can you please let Ice drunk text in peace without the common sense.

We talked about this........

333271AB-636A-4710-86D0-4A0A240097D7.gif

I dont have anything against them, i was just busting Panzers chops a little.